Angel 05/03 - Return of....somebody
 

We get the new Angel one night early here in Ottawa so I thought I'd start the thread. A solid episode with some MAJOR plot developments (although I felt it started out a little slow). So some big spoilers for anybody who can't wait a night...

More tidbits...



P.S. Could a mod please fix the date in the thread title? Feel pretty stupid about that.

Man, Faith just kicks my ass. Love her.

Is Connor always that annoying? Ugh.

And how 'bout that phone call?? "Hi Dawn. Yeah, it's me. Is your sister home?" :up:

Since i'm not versed on all the ways of Angel, i'm going to hold my speculations about Cordy and just go along for the ride..

And while Angelus had some good one-liners tonite, the prize goes to Faith who was firin' 'em out..

"It's like riding a biker.." & her response to Gunn's "I hold my own" response.. :up:

I would think it would be common knowledge by anyone who was a fan of Buffy or Angel who is returning tonight.
I mean, this is the Internet and most people who post do surf allot.
Why so secretive?

Anyway, looking forward to tonight episode.

Heres hoping the brat Connor gets offed.

a
 

Well, personally I thought/think the proper format for the title of the discussion of a particular show is Show Name -- "Show Title" Air Date. But that's just me..

In my temporary black monolith above, I asked if Connor is always that annoying..I see that he is..;)

Heres a Primer to bring anyone up to date if they are going to be tuning in tonight and havent watched for awhile.
It contains Spoilers...........


http://www.mansfieldnewsjournal.com/...s/1102920.html

Wonder if all shows on TV could use a boost of Faith? ;)


Also,

How would he not know about her? I know he's talked to Buffy as recently as the start of last season (when he found out she was alive). Plus Dawn has "memories" of Angel, and those same memories may exist inside of Angel. Or did you just think that Angelus and Angel don't share the same memories?

Is it 9:00 on the wb. I'm there (hope to make sense of everything.)

yes

Well everyone remembers Dawn since those Monk guys made it like she was always there.
Vampires arent amune.

That sounds like a LAME plot device to justify her presence. I never really bought into it.


In terms of Faith:

Why the H*LL did I read that..?? I thought it was regarding her appearance on tonite's show...

SO Not cool..:mad:

D'oh. Unscheduled basketball game instead here. Hopefully Angel will come on afterwards.

The "like riding a biker" was classic :D

If you're referring to Dr. DVD's hidden spoiler post, I'm not aware that anything of that nature has been determined yet.

At this point, any such "details" are likely still speculation.

We don't, to my knowledge, have any information as to what will happen to any of the major characters in the final episodes.

On Buffy they've made references to Dawn remembering back to when Angel and Buffy were dating- so Angel knows her in the current Buffy/Angel universe. The monks made it so world was changed and it worked retroactively- sort of like the effects "The Wish" in season 3 and "Superstar" in 4- the only difference is there was never a reset button pressed in reguards to Dawn. So yeah, it was a 'plot device' to introduce a new character on Buffy, but they laid the possiblity for such a change in the world well beforehand.

Hi,
I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop and for Angel to start being a lame show again after some really good build up and so far it hasn't happened. This is easily the best season since its first and this was another great show. It was good to see Faith again, loved that prison yard fight with the inmate and the Bringer's knife plus it was fabulous seeing her show Conner what a super being could really do. That kid just needs to shut the hell up. Yet, through it all I still think the most interesting character on the show is Wesley and tonight was another good examble. Wesley's inner conversation with Lilah was great and the way he gave Faith a test is a crystal clear look at how different his character is from the last time we saw Faith. It was great to see none of the Wesley/Fred/Gunn tension and for the first time in a while Gunn wasn't annoying. All that and I'm really curious about find out about Cordie & the Master. On a scale of 1 through 10, tonight rated an 8.

Faith:drool::drool::drool: She looks better than ever! Is Eliza's tatoo real? In Bring it On they made it look fake.

I thought it was good. It looks they're starting to make connections to Buffy with the bringers knife and Angelus talking to Dawn. I thought the scene in the bar was funny with Angelus dusting the female vamp. Eliza also looked great.

Eliza Dushku has great screen presence. She is excellent.

Wesley was good tonight, besides Angel (and now Faith), he seems like the only interesting character on this show. Fred and Gunn are fairly worthless, Lorne is even more so. I don't even know what to think about Cordy - how they have completely flip-flopped her character lately kind of annoys me. The "give mama some sugar" line was just flat-out stupid. The last scene between her and the brat, she was obviously acting different and I was just waiting for Connor to say "wtf is up w/ you?" - he looked as if he wanted to say it, but he just gave in to her.

Good episode - D.B. continues to rock as Angelus and it was great to see Faith back onscreen w/ all of her damn sex appeal.

I just liked how easily she picked up that barbell and smashed the inmate. In a show where a great deal of the characters are superpowered, it helps to give some sort of reference to just how strong they are.

That's actually one of my problems with Angel. In Buffy, vamps were still things to be feared. If one of the Scooby Gang was trapped alone with a vampire, you had to worry about them. In Angel, even Fred seems to be able to take down vampires... it was nice change to see Wesley having to struggle with two of them.

Great show!
Five by Five. Love that Wesley referenced that.
Glad Faith shut the little punk up too.

I'm wondering if Cordelia -- the REAL Cordelia -- is still a "higher being" and this Cordy we're seeing has always been the Beast's master. I don't remember--has she had ANY real honest-to-goodness visions without her eyes going back in her head?

I would think that would have to be it somehow. Maybe a demon from Conner's former Hell demension home looking for revenge?
They had to deal with CC's motherly condition some way. I suppose the writer's solution was as good as any and if it is not really our Cordelia then what difference does it make?

first episode i ever watched of angel and only watched it to see faith. was this a terrible episode to get in on? and is this show seeing signs of ending along with buffy? also are there usually little things like angel's phone call connecting the 2 shows? i watch buffy and do not recall many after season 4.

Not really. Willow called at the start of last season to tell Angel Buffy was alive but that's about all I can remember.

Oh man I think I called it. I said something to the effect of Cordy is under someone's power and slept with Connor to get his sperm. And to think I was mocked for guessing that. :D

Angelus is officially smarter than all the good guys. Combined. He realized the phones in LA can, in fact, call Sunnydale. Good for him.

Faith! That's all I have to say about that.

EvilCordy is creeping me out. Just... ew.

Angelus taking out the Beast didn't surprise me too much. He's always been a backstabber. And it makes sense to me that he'd want The Beast out of the picture, so that he could move up in the ranks.

Angel the TV show is much better than Buffy the TV show this year.

Some thoughts:

-I dont think that is the real Cordy. I think the real cordy is still in that other dimension.

-Faith kicked mucho butt

-Angel or Angelus? considering that angelus has yet to kill anyone and has killed a vampire and a major beast, maybe its angel after all?? maybe he knows that cordy is evil and is just going along to see what he can find out about her.

-Connor being impressed with the slayer was kinda cool.

-Wes rocked too

I'm thinking Angelus, because I don't think Angel would have fed off of Lilah's corpse. And if he were only pretending to be evil, he would have found some way to make sure everybody knew Angel(us) didn't kill Lilah, and to keep an eye out because there was an enemy in the Hyperion.

::Sigh:: The return of Faith was all that I had hoped. She retains her kick ass and take names attitude, but with an air of calm that she never had before. I guess prison does change people. Although, really her rehabilitation began before all that. I loved what she said about Angel never giving up on her. If Eliza wasn't going to go off and have a non-Whedon career, I would love to see her work with Angel. Ah well. That's not gonna happen.

Absolutely adored Wes saying he was "five by five". Bits of continuity make me a happy fangirl. Connor showed more spirit and verve tonight, although he still annoys me. I enjoyed his fascination with Faith the Vampire Slayer. (Man, was that odd to hear.)

Cordelia is so very evil and wrong. I just cannot believe that is really Cordy. I'm hoping this is some bizarre offshoot of the First's wicked plan. Unfortunately, we are all too aware of her very corporeal being via sex with Connor. And speaking of evil, I am confused as to the logical reason for Angelus killing the Beast. Was there one and I missed it? I did get a phone call right about then. Stupid people who don't listen to my mandated "Don't call me at these times". Anyway, about him killing the Beast...was it just because he figured it out and wanted to test his theory? Was it because he likes to be Numero Uno on the "To Fear" list? Just curious and it certainly didn't ruin a fine episode for me. I'm sure I'll suss it out when I re-watch.

But Lilah, oh Lilah. You have long been my favorite villain. I will miss you, o' gloriously nasty one. Your line "There's a signed dollar bill in your wallet that will prove different" brought a tear to my eye. You're right. Wesley couldn't save you, but then he didn't try very hard either. You weren't his prize so his eyes were never really on you. [This is the part where it's weird that I'm talking to a fictional tv character, huh?]

As I have said in all of my episodic thoughts, I continue to adore this show and long for its renewal.

I remain perplexed and I like it here. Ignorance is bliss and there is none better to agree than me.

ITA with all the reasons you listed.

~wis

I agree w/ people regarding Cordy - I don't think that it's really her either.

Angelus' backstabbing last night was classic - great TV, imo.

If you were watching it for Faith, you may want to watch the first season DVDs to see how she fits into the Angel world. The first season probably isn't as good as last year and this year, but in the Angel world, it has some history you probably need to make some of this stuff make sense. I think it also gets you introduced to how Angel, Cordy, Wes, Faith, and Gun (&Liliah?) fit into the Angel world. It doesn't introduce you to Fred or Conner, though. It also gives more info on the Powers that Be.

There were a lot more crossovers and references back then, too. Not as many recently.

http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthr...01#post3020601

Phase one is complete.

Anyway, liked the episode. Really tired of the scenes with "Cordy" though, particularly kissing The Beast. It was pointless and gratuitous. Some of Faith's scenes were awkward, but mostly it was very effective. Wesley's invoking the "5 x 5" was great. I also like how they made an effort to explain why they asked Faith for help and not Buffy. Even though it was hardly convincing on any level, at least they tried.

das

is Angelus really supposed to be a way better fighter than Angel ?

Faith totally rocks!

i so badly want to see the entire cast of Buffy and Angel together in an episode just one last time !

Are you talking about the fact that Angel never gave up on Faith, but essentially did give up on Buffy?

Ever watch a show that puts a big smile on your face throughout most of the episode? That was last night's episode of Angel with the return of Faith.

But while watching it, I have to say that we are waist deep in a live-action comic book soap opera. This show is now a guilty pleasure for me.

Faith breaking out of prison was just nuts. I still have no idea how Wesley walked away from that jump out of the window and landing on the cop car (even if Faith took much of the impact).

The beast throwing Faith around like a rag doll was tough to watch at times, and I have my doubts that Faith would have been able to do much against the beast had Angelus not intervined.

EvilCordy moving on to Connor for her next "beast/minion/protector/flunkie" was predictable turn. But I suspect Connor will get to try to kill Angel because his loyalties will be with the mother of his child, and not Angel and the gang.

I do think the actors (both Boreanaz and Carpenter) are enjoying being playing the bad guys. Their acting seems to be up a notch nowadays.

:yack:


Faith rocked, and was drop dead gorgeous. But then again, when is she not? :D I know that's just my opinion, but hey, isn't that all that matters.
I also agree with another poster about Cordy and Angelus, interesting to see that the two leads of this series when it began are now its major bad guys. Shame other shows haven't tried a swerve like that before.

I absolutely loved every minute of this episode... well, every minute until the preggers plot twist. That's sort of cheesy, but the rest is so good I am wiling to ride it out. Plus, I just came off my first viewing of Buffy S3 and that storyline flows into this one perfectly. It was good timing to realease that when they did. There are SO many paralels there and it becomes more like a Faith arc than a Buffy one in a way. Anyhoo...

I am jumping on the "Angel-In-Disguise" bandwagon. I called it last night about half way through. True, he fed on Lila, but she was already dead. He might have done that just to throw everyone off what he really knew. I think he wants to draw attention to himself to keep everyone distracted and make the real Big Bad feel safe and get clumsy. Remember, Angel is a detective at heart. Plus, there are lots of Joss tricks that usually mean to throw you off. Like Angel continually almost killing a human and never quite going through with it. Like him letting the Beast bang on Faith when he wouldn't really touch her. Just remember how convincing he was when he and Buffy tricked Faith.

Just some food for debate.

Oh, and the call to Dawn was a great touch and a brilliant way to reference Buffy without saying her name. Made us giggle like kids.