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Buffy 12/17/2002

Old 12-16-02, 05:23 PM
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Buffy 12/17/2002

Accidentally hit major spoilers by checking at www.tvguide.com to see if it was really a new episode tommorrow. Wish that I hadn't, but I have to say: woah.
Old 12-16-02, 05:29 PM
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The episode starts where I live in 30 minutes. Can't wait to see it. I will probably post some spoilers later on tonight or tomorrow.
Old 12-16-02, 10:46 PM
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Re: Buffy 12/17/2002

Spoiler:
As the Scoobies research the orgins of the First to find a way to rescue Spike, Giles arrives with reinforcements three apprentice Slayers. Also: Buffy is rattled when her mother offers advice in her dreams.
Old 12-17-02, 10:02 AM
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Wow! I thought there wasn't a new episode until January?
Old 12-17-02, 05:35 PM
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Do you think it'll really be

Spoiler:
Giles
?

Or
Spoiler:
shape/shifty big bad
?

Last edited by slop101; 12-17-02 at 05:40 PM.
Old 12-17-02, 07:58 PM
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Originally posted by slop101
Do you think it'll really be

Spoiler:
Giles
?

Or
Spoiler:
shape/shifty big bad
?
Spoiler:
That's what I was wondering the whole time. They still haven't shown us the end of the Giles "was he killed?" scene.
Old 12-17-02, 08:01 PM
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OK, I liked the episode quite a bit, but I'm bothered by a few questions. Some of them seem to be outside the show business related, and I guess that is why they bother me.

1) Did anybody notice anybody touch Giles? He said The First manifestations are not corporeal and it only seems to appear as dead people. Obviously, we last saw Giles with an axe coming at his neck. Where does that leave us?

2) Faith. Is she not the "true" slayer at this point, due to one of Buffy's previous deaths? No mention of her.

3) Wesley. Like Giles, an ex-watcher. Shouldn't they try to contact him for help, too?

Not contacting Angel doesn't bother me as much as the Faith and Wesley stuff. I understand the cross network stuff, but in the best of all worlds, we'd be having some crossovers here.



Again, great show, but the "lore" or history of this world is making me scratch my head. I'm still liking this season more than last.
Old 12-17-02, 08:09 PM
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Potential WHOPPIN' BIG SPOILER in here:

Spoiler:

I've read a report that the script for this ep says Giles was not supposed to touch anyone, and nobody was allowed to touch him.
Old 12-17-02, 08:12 PM
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I don't know if I noticed anyone touch Giles.

Faith is the true slayer and she was briefly mentioned.

I would think that if they thought Wesley could be of any help they would contact him. It may not have been mentioned yet, could have been done and not brought up and I think the shows are crossing over somewhat. I wouldn't be surprised if they mention that what Angel and gang are about to fight is related somehow to the First Evil.

I really liked it and I can't wait to see what they do with it.
Old 12-17-02, 08:23 PM
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Originally posted by elektra

Faith is the true slayer and she was briefly mentioned.

Thanks, I must have missed it. Seems they'd want to keep her from getting killed, too, somehow, to protect the line. Do you remember what they said?

I wouldn't be surprised if they mention that what Angel and gang are about to fight is related somehow to the First Evil.
Me neither, but some crossovers would make sense about now. I thought they'd said there wouldn't be any? I don't follow the rumor stuff that closely, though, so I'm probably wrong again
Old 12-17-02, 08:32 PM
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Originally posted by Colonel Mustard

1) Did anybody notice anybody touch Giles? He said The First manifestations are not corporeal and it only seems to appear as dead people. Obviously, we last saw Giles with an axe coming at his neck. Where does that leave us?
Hmmm Veddy interesting.........

Can someone refresh my Buffy history a little:
Going back a few seasons, when or how did Drusilla leave Sunnydale? Or was she killed (again)?
I'm foggy on that...

Last edited by Pointyskull; 12-17-02 at 08:41 PM.
Old 12-17-02, 09:05 PM
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Dru left of her own accord after Spike and her had their last run in. Not sure where she is, but I believe she's alive.
Old 12-17-02, 09:06 PM
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I was wondering the same thing about Giles!
Old 12-17-02, 09:12 PM
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Originally posted by Colonel Mustard
1) Did anybody notice anybody touch Giles? He said The First manifestations are not corporeal and it only seems to appear as dead people. Obviously, we last saw Giles with an axe coming at his neck. Where does that leave us?

2) Faith. Is she not the "true" slayer at this point, due to one of Buffy's previous deaths? No mention of her.
1 My girlfriend and I were watching for that...No. No one touched him. And they still haven't explained what happened as far as the axe. The question is...why would "Giles" bring the slayer wannabes to Buffy? Why not just kill 'em and be one step closer to the 'pockyclipse?

2 Like elektra said, Faith was mentioned. [Trust me...I keeping an eye out for her. ]

And Josh, I am so not reading your spoiler. Stop tempting me.
Old 12-17-02, 09:12 PM
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Originally posted by elektra
Dru left of her own accord after Spike and her had their last run in. Not sure where she is, but I believe she's alive.
well, as alive as a vampire can be, since she has technically "died". This is why The First can use Dru's shape (as well as Buffy's)

I also watched Giles very closely. He never touched anyone in this episode, and I don't think he ever picked anything up either. In fact, he seemed to walk around with his arms folded the whole time.
Old 12-17-02, 09:15 PM
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Didn't we have a fake Spike, too, manifested to Spike? That would tell us vampires are fair game. I may be confused on that.

Also, remember we heard the "only show up as dead people" thing from Giles, who is a questionable figure at this point.
Old 12-17-02, 09:18 PM
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Interesting to note. Now, I'm guessing they are still considering making the Watcher show based on him. Which leads me to believe he's alive. But, heck what do I know! They did only tease us about what happened to Giles.

So, assuming this is the first and not Giles, why would he bring the remaining few slayers to Buffy for protection? It wants to get closer to her to manipulate her? Dunno.

das - where the heck are you dude?

Also, anyone still getting a creepy vibe from the principal? I think if he was a watcher, it would have come up at this point. Maybe he joins when this is all said and done if he is a good guy. I still say there's something flaky about this dude.

Edited - yes technically vamps are dead and fair game to be impersonated, same as Buffy. It has appeared as both Spike and Buffy.
Old 12-17-02, 09:20 PM
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Originally posted by 12thmonkey
Hmmm Veddy interesting.........

Can someone refresh my Buffy history a little:
Going back a few seasons, when or how did Drusilla leave Sunnydale? Or was she killed (again)?
I'm foggy on that...
well, since Dru is already dead its not a problem that Spike can see her....Dru last appeared on Buffy in S5 I think...during the whole Spike falling in love with Buffy and getting used to life with his chip phase....this was around the time on Angel when she sired Darla and Angel went all....dark....which the show has never explained btw.....the question about the First only appearing as dead people gets interesting once you realize that if this is true, how is Spike seeing the First appear in Buffy form?....
Old 12-17-02, 09:23 PM
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Originally posted by elektra
So, assuming this is the first and not Giles, why would he bring the remaining few slayers to Buffy for protection? It wants to get closer to her to manipulate her? Dunno.

Edited - yes technically vamps are dead and fair game to be impersonated, same as Buffy. It has appeared as both Spike and Buffy.
Thanks on the vamp thing. I'd forgotten about Buffy.

As for the potential slayers, did THEY touch anybody?

Heh. Did Giles say something about The First manifesting as only somebody you know, or not? I'm going to have to start taping or something if I'm going to get confused like this.
Old 12-17-02, 09:24 PM
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Originally posted by Nathan Gervais
.....the question about the First only appearing as dead people gets interesting once you realize that if this is true, how is Spike seeing the First appear in Buffy form?....
For the same reason Spike could hit her. She came back wrong, and has been dead.
Old 12-17-02, 09:32 PM
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I know that one of the potential slayers did touch solid objects. Come to think of it didn't Giles as well? Leaned against a wall or something like that?
Old 12-17-02, 09:36 PM
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Dunno, that is why I started the whole question thing. I don't think leaning on the wall would matter, I think it would be other movable things. Obviously, he is touching the floor, so why would an immovable object matter? I think it is more interaction with movable stuff (if this whole quasi-theory-question is based on something at all).

I was more kidding about the potential slayers than anything. They had weapons.
Old 12-17-02, 09:36 PM
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Originally posted by Colonel Mustard
For the same reason Spike could hit her. She came back wrong, and has been dead.
no I get that....the point I was trying to make, badly was that we really don't know what forms the First can take....it seems that the First is one providing all the information....I just smell lots of misdirection coming from Team Whedon.....Giles, the Principal, Joyce....everything.....going to be a long few weeks.....
Old 12-17-02, 09:37 PM
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Right, which was the same as my comment about Giles being questionable, and he was the one that gave the info/rules.
Old 12-17-02, 09:49 PM
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Hi,
quick nit pick about an otherwise excellent episode....so Angel spent the entire summer underwater in a cage...and he is a vampire with a soul....what was the big deal about the First/Dru and the whole drowning bit w/Spike?.....in a series filled with great dialogue & witty one-liners I thought Buffy's speech at the end of the episode was some of the best written words Team Whedon has ever given the slayer....as a group I can't think of a writing squad in TV that sets up arcs within arcs better than they do...
Best

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