Does anyone else think that Spikes blue tight shirt was a Superman reference? He made mention that it was a 'costume that didn't work' when he removed it and all through the episode he noted he was trying to help out.

I think the "costume" was in fact no more than something the "old spike" would wear and he was thinking that putting it on would help him be more like the old Spike. Basically, he was trying to be a sheep in wolf's clothing and failed.

P.S. Did anyone else find Spike's yammering similar to that of Russell Crowe in A Beautiful Mind?

Could a group of evil watchers be slaying the next in line slayers? Are the watchers the only ones who know who is next in line? Could there also be a cult that worships a demon that needs the death of a certain number of slayers to be free? I wish they would answer the cloaked women killers mystery in the next episode.

I dont think it was specifically a Supes reference, just a general one about trying to get cleaned up, act like he wasnt Looney Tunes.

I’ve liked the show these first two episodes. Not great but sort of slowly submerging itself into the old Buffy waters, emerging from the depressing deck, doom and gloom, heavy handed message tales of last season. For me, Buffy works best when its the even balance between heavy character development, sharp witted humor, and action, and it is obvious that is where they are aiming this season.

Yeah, the only thing is, Spike would wear red but I can't recall him in that loud blue color.

Who wants this Xander/Nancy thang to blossom?

Not me, that's who.
I like Xander best when he is p**** whipped by someone out of his league (Anya, Cordy, etc) or bumming about his singleness.

Nancy seems too normal, despite having psycho ex Ronnie.

Me either. Besides, Nancy practically left skidmarks from the craziness. I'd rather see more of Halfrek then introducing a new character in the show.

I doubt we will see more of Nancy, this was more or less mud in Xander's eye.

I don't what it is about her, but I absolutely can not stand Halfrek. She irritates me to no end and would be better better suited for Friends - or any NBC sitcom for that matter.

And I definitely agree Dawn is somewhat less annoying this season.

Speaking of Looney Tunes, I half expected to see Bugs Bunny come out of the ground instead of that worm, but then I remembered it wasn't being aired on the WB anymore.

This puts it into words better than I could of. Spike is both Spike and William now. He is conflicted.
From scoopme.com


Buffy the Vampire Slayer


Beneath You: Watch What You Wish For
by Hunter Maxin
10/1/2002



Spike is back. SPIKE IS BACK! Back, I tell you! Back!

(easy...easy)

And in a big way, which doesn’t surprise me at all. What did surprise me was how many steps we went through in such a short period of time. The transition from Almond Joy Spike (sometimes you feel like a nut...) to Mounds Spike and back again...well, I didn’t see that one coming. I had William penciled in as somewhat bonkers until at least after Columbus Day.

In fact, when "costumed" sane Spike showed up in the Summer’s foyer, I was tempted to write him off as, first, a figment of Buffy’s imagination (until after the commercial break), and, later, some form of the big bad in disguise (until Anya looked into his eyes). So this is how Spike has decided to wrestle with his demons: he’s spliced himself into halves.

On one side, we have William...tortured by the things he’s done. Soft at heart. Weak and misguided. Living in the past. Tormented. Unkempt hair.

On the other, we have Spike. Neutered Spike, yes, but still Spike. British cool. Devious, yet charming. Misplaced. Misguided. In love with Buffy.

Last week, I was sure that Spike’s reference to "just the three of us" meant Buffy, himself, and the big evil lurking in the shadows. Now, I’m not so certain. Now, I think it might just be Spike, William, and Buffy.

And how much more interesting is that?

In the end, however, I think the two came together. Maybe not for the first time, but the first for us. In the end, Spike met William half way and became something not entirely not unlike...a man.

Flawed and lost. Strong and with purpose. Confused about who he is in relation to what he wants. Vulnerable and pathetic, and all the more worthy of our love...if only because he is real.

The evolution was fast and furious, however, and I spent much of the last half of the night wondering what, exactly, I had witnessed. Then came the last five minutes...five of the coolest minutes of BtVS I have ever seen.

For starters, JM has gotten so good that...what? What can you actually say about him? He transcends, now. At this point, more than any other slight the show has received, his lack of recognition borders on criminal. We watched him swing, quickly back and forth, from William to Spike, arguing with himself, pleading with God, helpless to hopeless to threatening...with the smoothest of transitions and subtle, subtle power.

The performance itself left me confused. As if I could possibly write about something else. Because tonight I felt I saw JM truly come into being. And I was somewhat awed.

And why? And how? The truth came out. The deep truth, the real truth. We were off the scent. Put there by Joss who prodded us to believe that Spike left for surgery. To have a chip removed, thank you very much, to free himself to kill Buffy. To rid himself of her. To give her what she deserved.

But no! How could that be? He loves her. Spike knew, deep down inside, he was searching for his soul all along. It’s what he was asking for in Africa, even if the words never came out of his mouth.

To give Buffy what she deserved.

And then those five minutes. I don’t do...I won’t ever do this again...but tonight I have to. I have to actually have the words in front of us, to see them. To be sure of what we heard. To see it for ourselves.

Buffy: Spike, have you completely lost your mind?

Spike: Well, yes, where have you been all night?

Buffy: You thought you would just come back here, and be with me?

Spike: Well, first time for everything.

Buffy: This is all you get...I’m listening. Tell me what happened.

Spike: I tried to find it, of course.

Buffy: Find what?

Spike: The spark. The missing...the piece, that fit...that’ll make me fit. Because you didn’t want...I can’t. Not with you looking. (Gets up and walks into the shadows.) I dreamed of killing you. (Buffy picks up a stake.) I think they were dreams. So weak. Did you make me weak? Thinking of you? Holding myself and spilling useless buckets of salt over your...ending. Angel, he should have warned me...it’s here. In me. All the time. The spark. I wanted to give you...what you deserve. And I got it. They put the spark in me and now all it does is burn.

Buffy: Your soul.

Spike: Bit worse for lack of use.

Buffy: You got your soul back. How?

Spike: It’s what you wanted, right? (Looking to heavens and raising his voice) It’s what you wanted, right? And now everybody’s in here...talking. Everything I did. Everyone I...and him. And it. The other. The thing...beneath. Beneath you. It’s here too. Everybody failed to tell me. Go. Go. To hell.

Buffy: Why? Why would you do...

Spike: Buffy, shame on you. Why would a man do what he musn’t? For her. To be hers. To be the kind of man who would never...to be a kind of man. And she shall look on him with forgiveness and everybody will forgive and love. And he would be loved. So everything’s okay, right. (Leans on cross and starts to smolder) Can we rest now? Buffy...can we rest?

Honestly, what can you say after that? What can you write? My friend, Jack Blair, who was watching with me, said it best – Spike has become the greatest vampire in all of movies and television. His character is so evolved, so complex, so, for lack of a better word, real, that to dissect him...to say that this is what he means and this is what he is offends.

People – real people – can’t be explained so easily. Only characters can.

Angel is a character. A beloved one, to be sure, but limited and confined by his motivations. I am a vampire with a soul. I atone for my past transgressions. The memories haunt me everyday. I brood therefore I am.

But not Spike. Not anymore. He is William and he is Spike, that which is beneath Buffy. But unlike Angel, in which Angelus was just a variation on a theme, this Spike, this current William, they are different. At opposites. And in the middle is just this...man.

A tired, tired man who just wants someone to explain to him what it’s all for. What it all means? Who is he here? Who is he now? And he suspects the only person who can tell him is this woman who doesn’t even really know who she is.

Forgive me.

As to what it will all mean...for us, for the future...that we can discuss. At length. In the days to come. But this is all I have now, and I didn’t even say it first.

Tonight, Spike became a kind of man. It’s exactly what Buffy deserves, and that might be the most dangerous thing of all.



Tremors...I’m not going to discuss the monster of the week, because, frankly it was beside the point. What it did do, however, was indicate some talking points for the future. Namely...

Xander is trying to move on post-Anyanka.

He has also nearly become a father figure.

Dawn showed some interesting backbone tonight, both with Secrets & Lies Buffy and Spike.

Anya might be a lost cause. Don’t be surprised if Joss keeps her on the wrong side of the law this year.

Willow...let’s just wait and see. I like how she and Giles are communicating and it raises some interesting questions about her future as a watcher. I also like how much they are making it clear that magic – and using it – are foregone conclusions in her life.

Sunnydale High...um, wasn’t everyone under the impression that this episode had everything to do with her starting work at school. The previews have been giving us the snowjob for a few years now, to the point where you absolutely cannot trust them for any semblance of information.

The episode titles, however, have been rife with meaning, and much attention should be paid to them until further notice.

From Beneath You It Devours...well, they have certainly poured it on thick, and Joss might have trouble living up to it. The big bad is officially The Big Bad. Capital B and that rhymes with T, which spells Trouble.

There are some signs now that point in some directions we haven’t previously discussed. Some things about the nature of the earth itself. Some things that suggest what it might holding, and what it might be for.

This hellmouth...this Hellmouth...it’s got teeth. And from beneath it devours. There isn’t that much to go on, but this big bad, this first evil...it’s as old as we feared. Older than time as we know it. And perhaps, just perhaps, both Earth and man were put here to hold it and keep it.

Discuss amongst yourselves.

The Next Big Thing...I think it is now probably pretty clear what happened in Istanbul last week, and, of course, again in Germany tonight. Put another way, if these poor unfortunate girls aren’t Slayers-in-waiting, I’ll wash Joss’s BMW for a year.

With my tongue.

Just so long as he listens to my pitches.

Version 2.0 seemed a great deal tougher to me than the original, and, I think, offered up a nice little nod to fellow network Powerpuff grrrl Sidney Bristow. This means, of course, we have to deal with the fact that Joss is affirmatively establishing that all intended heirs to Buffy (well, Faith, actually) are being made to go the way of Jennifer Love Hewitt’s career. Not to beat a dead horse with a dead horse...but someone has to be next in line.

For now, I’m gonna take a hiatus from that line of thought and take a look at the flip side. Who are these guys in the funny robes? Why are they trying to end the slayer line? Who do they work for? Are they first cousins to the Knights of Byzantium?

Are they even forces of evil?

For now, I fear, we have to stick with the questions...and all the speculation you can bear.

Wait for it...

Wait for it...

It’ll come.





I enjoyed the episode and it has been much better than last season but the show is still showing its age.

As a fan of both, I'd have to say that it was totally an Alias reference. Check out the camera angles and fighting styles - totally taken from Alias. I thought it was a fitting response to all the "Look out Buffy..." buzz that Alias is trying to build.

Lola ran. Jennifer fights.

What Cooper said.

Actually, I really was thinking pretty much the same things about this episode.

So I won't repeat it.

I'm just hoping that the payoff in the Spike story arc is as good as it should be. It really seems like they are trying to get back to what Buffy was all about in the 2nd & 3rd seasons, with some more grown-up angles.

So far so good.

I enjoyed almost everything about the episode. The whole Tremors rip-off creature was annoying and funny in a way but I just let that go.

I also wonder whether or not Spike's chip is still working. There was a tiny look that said "I should be feeling pain right now but I'm not" that was really interesting. Even though Spike has his soul back he is still a demon so have fun explaining why the chip doesn't work (if it in fact doesn't).

Part of me really does wish that Willow killed Anya last season. There's really no point for her being on the show anymore since she isn't with Xander. I'm sure the writers will find some way to make her useful but her character seems so unnecessary at this point.

I dunno. If Will killed Anya before Zander and her had a chance to work things out to some degree it would have just seemed wrong to me somehow. He really just left left her and no one for a time knew where he was and little explaination. And it would be harder for them to accept Willow back having killed a previous Scooby member.

I think they can do a lot with her character (already I see an Ep entitled Anya)and there are still some mysteries associated with her that would prove interesting to know about. As it is now, she is going through a very similar phase as Spike. Only she has her conscience left over from her brief stint as a human and it is plaguing her. I just wish they would stop dressing her in those Laura Ingalls dresses...UGH!

Yeah, she's been looking a little frumpy. I guess being jilted will do that to a "justice" demon...

You know, her an Halfrek together make a great comedy duo...they should go with that I think. I guess those Justice Demons can't all have the cool style and fashion sense as Sweet did

Whatever happened to Clem?

Boy, that guy cracked me up...

"How about a movie? PG-13!"

LOL. He is very cool too.

Didn't Kendra mention something waaay back when about the council being very angry with Buffy and retaliating perhaps? I can't seem to recall

The impression I got from Spike's reaction was not so much it wa sthe chip that hurt him, but rather it was his SOUL that made him hurt after he stabbed the human.

He was very pulled together until he stabbe dthe guy which caused him to go all loopy. My guess was the guilt from hurting the guy brought back all the evil he has done to others, etc.

This was probably the first person he has hurt since regaining his soul and that probably hurt him more than the chip (if it still works.)

But Spike was punching Buffy around (along with Anya), so buffy doesn't count as "human" to Spike?

Remember that Buffy has "changed", and after her Willow-induced resurrection she is not exactly human (I think that has been implied a few times last season)....

Out of curiousity, is ther any way for Anya to get some profit from being a vengeance demon? She seems to love having money and could definitely cash in with her powers.

Look to last seasons "You came back wrong/different." business. The magics that brought Buffy back mucked with her enough that Spike can hit her... Well, thats the Buffyverse answer, in the real world, its called a writers loophole.

Spikes still got the chip. He's just nuts, and went all demony, busting up Anya and Buffy, chasing worm guy, and as soon as the guy transformed into a human, the chip activated and the jolt brought Spike back down to his now crazy Earth.

Yes, but I think punching someone is different than stabbing them through the chest. I think that was definitely what made Spike go all crazy.