Snake Plissken

Good episode. Nice twists. Nice ending. Damn i love this show.

milo bloom

Erm, what exactly did SahJahn say about Conner? I heard it, but I don't quite get it. As in


And over at AICN, when Hercules previews Angel, he always mentions Fantastico. Who is that?

Scorpio

What an awesome return this evening. I love that ending. It's sure getting interesting.

Kube

Two questions:

Why didn't Angel kill what's his name. What was with that I'll smother him to death with a pillow? Angel can a person in a second. Was there any reason for his new technique? (I know then there would be no show but the folks there are usually good at providing some explanation. I guess you could say "He wanted to see him suffer."

What happened in the fight between Angel and the dark overlord?

clemente

That ending was pretty damn good, leaves us wondering what the hell is going on.

I gotta comend the show on a pretty damn cool fight sequence. It was nice how

Something that got me thinking about the end,

I dunno.

Patman

Good grief! I was thinking the ending was some dream of Wesley's (which seems to be the rage among TV shows doing the day-dream fantasies to garner gaffaws), but it was real, baby! Angel is still hellbent on teaching Wesley a thing or two about kidnapping his son. Good for Angel!

This sets up all sorts of tension for the rest of the season.

Wesley might not be welcomed in the hotel for a while, and that means he'll have to work outside of the group trying to make things right between Angel and him. But that will only happen when Connor is back with Angel ().

There were be hell to pay for Angel's visit to the White room (the girl was quite spooky - loved the bit about requiring Angel to kill a human and Lila was the most convenient choice - Angel probably would have had no compunction doing it if he felt he needed to in order to find Connor).

I like the acting that Amy Acker (Fred) did with her scenes with Angel. She came off as truly frightened for Angel and Connor.

Wesley must have some mystical recuperative powers or damn lucky to survive not only the throat slashing, but earlier the stabbings in his guy. Makes you wonder...

It's great to have new episodes of Angel back on the air for the next 6 weeks!

RolloTomasi

Great episode, expecially one after a long hiatus. However, it's not without its flaws.

I don't see how Wesley could have survived that throat-slashing for that many hours. I'm no doctor, but shouldn't he have bled to death?

Also, that flashback bit on Sahjhan looked extremely fake, with the lighting reminding me of a school play. Was that intentional?

Good points of the episode:

The White Room
Lilah faking out Linwood with the knife
The ending... I wonder what's gonna happen with Wesley.

Which leads me to my next question. I didn't catch the preview for next week. Could anyone recap what it's gonna be about? Make sure to put spoiler tags

RaraFemina

I'm thinking that maybe Cordy might be able to help Angel get Conner back. Remember they gave her demon attributes so she could handle the visions, maybe one of those attributes will be the ability to rip thru the fabric of time? We know that she can levitate, but we don't know that is all she can do. They showed her levitating while surrounded by a lot of light in the preview for next week...maybe that is her getting to the other dimension?

I don't think SahJahn (spelling?) knows for sure what has happened to Conner. I think he is assuming that Conner and Holtz are dead because of where they were sent.

And what is up with SahJahn messing with the scrolls? I didn't think that was possible. I mean, I know it's possible, but I didn't think the Powers That Be would allow something like that to happen therefore messing up what the future was supposed to bring.

I can't wait to see what they are gonna do next week!!

Snake Plissken

Who do you think will be in charge of Angel Investigations now? Gunn? Cordy? Fred? It cant be Angel since hes too f'ed up in the head right now.

RaraFemina

It's gotta be Cordy, probably with some help from Loren.
She knows all the files and how everything is done, it just makes sense for her to start running the show. Especially since she has the visions to help them out.
I think Gunn is too much into the physical acts of the business, and Fred is too insecure to take control.

Snake Plissken

Here is TV Guide's description of next week's episode of ANGEL


Episode titled: Double or Nothing

Darren Garrison

Yeah, nothing worse than getting stabbed in your guy.

MrN

Seems like forever since the last episode, but looks like the pacing is still perfect.

I also am disappointed about how Wesley survived, Justine should have been capable of doing the job right, but in the interest of furthering the plot without losing Wesley altogether, I'll buy it.

Looks like the correct spelling is 'Sahjhan', according to Angelguide anyway.

Loved the white room and the final fight with Sahjhan, but some of the cutting and action looked awkward - but it does look like they've been spending a little more on Angel this season than before. Any word on if the show has been renewed by WB for next year?

Can't wait for more - Wesley has to prove himself again and Angel is psychotic. Of course Sahjhan is going to be back and of course there will be repercussions from Wolfram & Hart. And when will Holtz and Connor return? And of course Justine and her gang are still running around but is she ok, now that she helped Angel? I think this episode left more questions than it answered and I guess thats why its so good....

cooper2000

I really enjoyed the episode. Great story, conflict, great fight scenes and left us all wondering why Angel went a bit wacko at the end. From what I saw I thought Angel understood that Wesley was in fact trying to save Conner so was he just pretending he understood so he could go to the Hospital and smother Wesley? Or did he flip out. Maybe drinking that blood a few episodes back had some other effect on him.
I am just going to be glad when Cordie gets back.
Anyone know why they wrote her out of a few episodes? Was she filming a movie or something? Did she get a hair cut too?


P.S. This season, has been so much better than Buffy which is close to life support or that big shark tank.

das Monkey

Holy God, that was some good stuff. I thought the White Room was a little cheesy, but everything else really worked. I love how honest and true these characters are to themselves. It's rare nowadays to find characters so strongly written.

das

tofu

Great episode. Can't wait to see what happens next week.

For a while, I thought everything had been forgiven but that ending really disproved what I thought. It should be interesting to see how Wesley and Angel handle everything.

So do you think that we'll ever find out what the scrolls actually did say besides "the son of Angel will kill Sahjan?" Why is he so important that he gets mentioned in the scrolls?

Rico Diablo

I'll admit it. That's funny.

Good to have Angel back. Here's what I thought was going to happen at the end (I'll spoilerize it to be safe)

I agree that within the show's reality if Angel wanted Wesley dead it would've taken him two seconds. But that's no good for the show.

I also don't know why Charisma Carpenter hasn't been in these past few episodes. Anyone know why?

adamblast

Wesley gets his throat slit by a well-trained, kickass soldiergirl, but survives what--3 hours? 8 hours?--out in the park? Angel goes into an uncontrollable rage and decides to smother Wes--rather than any of several ways he could have killed him instantly? Then he's successfully pulled off Wes by a couple of orderlies?

I enjoyed this episode a lot, and I like where the arc is taking us. But I really, really wish they'd do some more quality control in the suspension-of-disbelief department...

About the only way I can forgive the last 60 seconds is if it was all an act on Angel's part, for the benefit of the bad guys... But I don't think that's the direction the arc is heading...

Rico Diablo

Here's what didn't add up: when Angel was about to kill Lila he grabbed her head and was ready to twist it off. Quick and easy. Then when he was in a murderous vengeful rage, he grabs a fluffy pillow to slowly smother Wesley. Then he lets a couple orderlies pull him out of the room. This is what a rampaging vampire does? Not likely.

Morf

It doesn't need to make sense. To do it any other way would screw up the storyline, plain and simple.

adamblast

Sorry, but it does need to make sense, at least internally to the story. Otherwise, we have no vested interest, and no reason to care.

If they wanted to show Angel seriously try to kill an already nearly-dead Wesley, they needed a much better reason for him to fail. Not only did Angel seem like a complete mortal in that scene, but a fairly weak mortal at that...

spainlinx0

You could say that perhaps he wanted to Wesley to suffer. He's too good to have his neck snapped, so maybe he's thinking suffocation is a lot worse way to go.
But you have to remember, people don't think straight when emotions cloud issues. People do stupid things under stress. You know he's in a hospital and most death scenes at hospitals involve pillow suffocation so maybe that's the first thing he thought of when deciding to off Wesley.
I thought Wesley surviving in the park was kind of ridiculous, but I tried to tell myself that maybe since deep down she really didn't WANT to kill him, that she didn't cut as deep as was necessary to end his life. Maybe she still felt that killing a human wasn't part of her revenge. Still we don't know how long he was there, and I personally don't know how long you could last a wound like that. So any doctors want to offer an explanation?

das Monkey

Um ... Angel didn't want to end Wesley's life. He wanted to "kill him". There is a difference. Angel wanted to unleash his rage on Wesley. Had he wanted to snuff him out for good, he could have ripped his head off. I have no problem believing that situation. Wesley living through the neck slice doesn't work too well for me, but Angel smothering him with the pillow makes sense.

das

Draven

The whole "surviving the neck wound" thing bothered me too, but I felt like they showed that Wesley hadn't been in the park too long after the bum found him. I assumed the bum called the paramedics.

Here's why. Gunn, Fred and Angel couldn't find Wesley in the park. To me, that means he was already at the hospital, not that Gunn and Fred finally checked under the one bush in the park and found him. They found him by calling the hospitals.

Also, I'm SO not a doctor, but I think a throat slashing is only deadly if you cut the windpipe or the cartoid artery. Anything else would be just a nasty cut, which might have made it hard to breathe. But as I said, no medical training to back that up

The only problem is the bum dragging Wesley behind the bush. I could understand him taking the wallet, but still calling the paramedics, but I don't know how he got to the hospital if the bum didn't call it in.

Slumbering Fist

Actually its more plausible than you think. As long as a main artery is not really badly severed your neck just fills up with blood and can coagulate the wound. Recently they did a story on 60 mins/Dateline/48 hrs(? I forget which) about a man who was sailing around South America, was robbed by pirates, who slit his throat. Despite a huge wound (that looked worse than Wes's) he survived. He was knocked out for about a day, woke up, and for a long time he didn’t even know his throat was cut.

I find it more implausible that Gunn’s skull isn’t fractured after he is hit twice by a demon that tosses two ton trucks aside... But, hey, people its FANTASY, so we have to forgive some of these logic gaps.

Angel probably didn’t go full on Wesley because he is weak from the Sajahann#%&*? fight (remember he was so pummeled he unvamped) and he is in a blind rage, angry, but perhaps his heart was not fully in it.

The demonic girl in the White Room was completely ripped off form the Federico Fellini “Toby Dammit” segment in Spirits of the Dead, in which the Devil was a sweet littlel girl with a red balloon.... but if you are going to rip something off, might as well do it from the best.

I thought it was a fantastic, well-written return and I cant wait to see what happens.