das: You just keep watching and doing your responses. I love them and never tire of reading them either I myself benefit and it seems no matter what discussion board I read them in...Fancy that!

I think it's someone else that has 'Lost that loving feeling':P

It's nothing like that.

We were just...

Communicating.

There are some good shots at www.foundrymusic.com in the pics section. Gotta love the captions...

She is a singer? I think that is still up for debate. I haven't heard one song where her voice wasn't drastically enhanced. Most likely to cover up the fact that she probably can't sing at all. Just my two Lincolns.

Jus thought I'd post some shots I found on another forum of the Britney "concert":

Photo 1[

Photo 2[

Photo 3

Photo 4[

Photo 5

So...real or Mamorex? After looking at Photo 4, I'm leaning towards Mamorex.

Why don't you actually purchase the albums and listen to them then? She sings for real, she sings good. Appartently people like her since all of her albums have sold well and debuted at #1. It just seems like this forum doesn't like her. She even had a great sound when she sang on the Mickey Mouse Club. I don't know why people have to bash she so much, I guess they do because she is so successful. They did the same thing to Madonna. Hey even Paula Abdul got the "she doesn't sing on her albums" crap. History just recycles itself with these pointless arguements just with different artists.

Don't automatically assume that because people don't agree with you they are ignorant. Having lived with people obsessed with Britney, I have heard all her albums and about a million techno remixes of every song she has. I am more than qualified to form an educated opinion on her.

Having mass market appeal and being talented are in no way related. Sometimes they conincide ... other times, they're diametrically opposed. Check your local box office returns for specific examples.

I'd wager it's because we honestly believe she offers nothing of any value, not because of some childish hatred of people who are successful. Again, I say that our disagreement with you does not directly imply ignorance.

Well, I don't know who "they" are, but the "they" I know would consider Madonna a visionary, a trend setter, and if not for Elton John, the true Queen of Pop. She's fallen a bit recently, but historically, she has always been at the forefront of the music industry, and everyone else scrambles to see who can copy her latest innovation first. I don't particularly enjoy Madonna's music or her flat voice, but she's a geniune artist. To compare Britney to Madonna simply because she sells albums is like comparing "Godzilla (2000)" to "On the Waterfront" simply because it made lots of money at the box office. Simply associating Britney with other artists, claiming "well, since they had criticism and were good, it must mean Britney's good too" doesn't cut it. It's called a logical fallacy.

I've never claimed that you don't have a right to enjoy her music. Good for you. Way to go. As I said in my very first post on this subject, one person's trash is another's treasure. But do not assume that because many of us think it's trash that we are ill-informed or bitter or otherwise negatively biased in some childish manner. We geniunely think she's a talentless ho with nothing substantial to offer the music industry. Her lyrics, while not even written by her, are stale and trite. Her tunes, which are again not even written by her, are bubblegum pop that's preprogrammed into the latest Casio keyboard, and her singing ability is mediocre at best. That's just my opinion, and it's not recycled or pointless ... it's (at least from my point of view) a specific analysis of her as an individual.

das

Why in the world would I purchase any of her albums? I don't need to. I've seen her on MTV a gazillion times. Both her videos and "live" performances. And I've formed my opinion based on that. To me, it still sounds like her singing voice is 75% (or more) "modified". I don't think anyone here said she wasn't popular. That would be a rather stupid comment or observation. But quanity does NOT equal quality. Just look at the top grossing movies for example. Or the rest of Billboard's Top 10. If this forum doesn't like her, maybe it's because most people here are over 14. Also, I don't recall Madonna getting too much flack when she started off. Maybe a few people said her voice was a little weak live. Or as das pointed out, flat. Sure, Paula Abdul got the same crap. Because she also can't sing. She's a DANCER! Just like J Lo. If we didn't keep getting these vapid/pretty puppets every few years, we wouldn't be having this conversation now. But that's never going to change.

I don't understand why this is such a tough question.

Britney is successful because her people market her well.

It's not all about talent anymore. You have to have the "buzz" factor around you, and then if you cultivate it well enough and make yourself marketable, you sustain your fame.

You can have all the talent in the world, but if you don't have that marketing thing going for you, you won't make it as big as you could.

Britney has taken her looks, dance numbers, minimalist clothing wardrobe, with a teeny-weeny voice all the way to the top. Only in America...

Actually, that's not true. It's not only in America. Take a look at the British charts sometime. Steps? S Club 7?

I didn't think her popularity was the question here. Of course it's because of the marketing.

Absolutely ... and it's hard to fault her for doing so. I don't see millions of teenagers chanting my name (it's barely in the thousands). The only negative is if she buys into the hype ... while it will make a great 'Behind the Music' it certainly won't be good for her in the longrun.

das

Or E! True Hollywood Story. Heh heh.

When's this on again?

I think what Eternia is getting at here is that you detractors have bought into the negative publicity as much as us fans have bought into the hype and marketing, probably even more so. Not even her fans are going to claim that she is a phenomenal artist, but she’s 1) hot, 2) a decent singer, 3) a great dancer, and 4) has good, catchy songs written for her. Her music is fun to listen to.

Obviously she has some singing talent, and a very unique and recognizable voice to boot. I’m sure there are a million hot girls that can dance lined up around the block of every major record label, so if she couldn’t sing at all, they would have just signed one of those girls instead. Now her ability to produce the same vocals in a live setting while putting on a full dance show may be suspect, but she can at least sing better than the average girl. The detractors cannot admit this. The other extreme example of buying into the negative publicity is the fake boobs thing. Anyone who knows anything about breasts can clearly see that hers are real, except for the occasional photo shoot where she wears obvious cleavage enhancing outfits. I think she has even purposefully worn outfits that prove this (that one at the AMA’s a couple of years ago that was split wide down the middle immediately comes to mind). Anyone who still holds to these idiotic statements about her being fake is just being completely blind. Once again, the detractors cannot admit this. I even saw a segment on ET (not a bastion of truth, I know, but still) claiming that the background vocals on I’m a Slave 4 U said “I just wanna have sex with you,” when clearly she is saying “I just wanna dance next to you.” They even had a supposed sound engineer listen to it, and he wouldn’t say that they are stupid or deaf. This is what Madonna was getting at in her interview in “Interview” magazine. She basically said that she feels bad for Britney because she is the girl that is so beautiful and talented that people just spitefully try to destroy her.

What us fans are trying to figure out is why the people who don’t like her are so violently opposed to her. You cannot have a conversation, or discussion about Britney Spears without someone pretty much yelling at you. You cannot have a thread without a bunch of people hijacking it. It seems like the detractors spend as much time seeking out and trying to debunk her as the fans do enjoying her work. Get over yourselves. There are a million artists out there that I think have no talent, but I don’t seek out everyone who likes them just to spew my opinion at them. You don’t like her? Don’t listen to her. But don’t try to take away my enjoyment of her.

There are plenty of idiots on both sides of every issue, but attacking the flaws in logic of people you may have run into has no bearing on the statements made in this thread. I'm sure there are plenty of people that violently hate Britney for no justified reason, but this thread was NOT hijacked. We're talking about her performance, or lack thereof, on this television program. Sure, that discussion has broadened to her work as a whole, but that's fairly acceptable I think.

I have no hatred of Britney and have repeatedly refered to her as having boobies ... not fake boobies. I'll grant you that she's hot and a decent singer. I won't grant that she's a great dancer or has good songs. I'll give you catchy songs.

And yes, there are a million talentless hacks in the music industry, but this thread is clearly about Britney. If you want to jump on some moral highground here, I suggest attacking the criticism and not the critics. So far, all I hear is people saying that those who don't like Britney are either ignorant about her songs or acting out of some blind hatred of success. I have never suggested that it's wrong for you to enjoy her music, so I'd appreciate you not implying that my right to dislike her music is somehow of a lesser importance.

das

And many fans thought Milli Vanilli were good singers

As das has said numerous times, none of us is saying that you are not entitled to love and enjoy her music. On the same hand, those of us who were completely disgusted with her lackluster performance on HBO, which is what this thread is about are entitled to that opinion.

Britney is successful because she is marketed well. Plain and simple. There is very little chance that she would be as successful as she is if she had to work her way up the ranks like most musicians have to. She is a performer not a musician, but she is a damn good performer and obviously provides her fans with what they want. Sure she is an average singer, but that is not what what has driven her to success. Sex sells and if a Britney fan can tell me with a straight face that she is not selling sex you need to serious take another look at reality. On a half serious note, I will still believe that Britney had a breast augmentation until I touch them for myself and prove otherwise. That is only my opinion.

So what have we learned from this thread? Most men think Britney is hot. Most people on this forum that saw the HBO show think it was horrid. Britney has many fans and many people who feel that she doesn't add an value to the music industry. There will always be someone who has a different view than you, but that doesn't mean that they are ignorant, poorly educated on the issue, or bitter, they just have a different view.

Anyone who has the nerve to say Britney is not selling sex need not look any further than the recent Rolling Stone magazine cover.

Speaking of which, Rolling Stone....oh how the mighty have fallen. Putting pop tarts like Britney on the cover not once, but twice. So much for cutting edge Rock N' Roll.

I used to be in the music business and I am friends with Dan Boom who engineered the album Baby One More Time. He said they had to use so much processing in the studio by way of pitch correction and filters just to make her voice acceptable. I listened to her new album and it's the same thing. Listen to it with headphones on and you can actually hear the filters they used on her voice, it's sad. In the studio I can make just about anyones voice sound acceptable(Crackhead Bob would be a stretch).

She is not a good singer in any way, shape, or form. She is mearly a product of marketing genius and catchy song-writing.

She is nice to look at but if it were not for the huge marketing machine driving her carrer she would be just like the thousands and thousands of average good looking girls across the US.

Her talent does not lie with her singing or dancing ability(which there is none). Her talent is in her ability to sell herself and her body....not that there's anything wrong with that It is however a sad statement on the music buying public that accepts music like this because it offers no value, but just like anything though there is good and bad in everything and to each their own.

The people who sang for them are fine. Britney sings her own songs. When she "lipsync" at a concert she lipsyncs herself, not someone else. Totally different situation.

I am sure if what palebluedot is speaking of is true, it would have already fit the wall. And, excuse me, she has no dancing ability? What are you going to say next, it isn't her dancing, they animated the moves in over the video? LOL.....

Oh, that's certainly her dancing the moves of her highly paid professional choreographers. But from a personal opinion, I don't find her dancing to be that impressive. There's nothing wrong with it by any means ... I just wouldn't consider her to be a great dancer. And I certainly don't have any problem with her just being an average dancer ... she's a performer, not a singer, so she has to do something to entertain. And since she dances better than she sings, it makes sense to teach her moves and let her do her best. But claims that she's a great dancer are a little far-fetched I think.

I think it's fair to say that she's a great entertainer. Obviously, or we wouldn't have this thread. But she's not a great singer, nor is she a great dancer. My opinion, of course.

das

I don't think she is a great singer by any means. I just think she can sing.

Oh well. I am sure we have played out every angle of this already

Oh just want to point out he and that little girl were only on the HBO thing - the story and them are not there at the other ones.

While comforting to hear that, whoever came up with that concept for the "concert" should be shot. That was just really bad. Not what I'd expect from HBO.

das