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buffy 10/16

Old 10-16-01, 11:56 PM
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buffy 10/16

So, Angel crossover, anyone?

Today's pretty neat, seeing a superhero dealing with real life.

And Willow's "DON'T PISS ME OFF" thing!!! The evil's coming out!
Old 10-17-01, 01:02 AM
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I doubt they'll do an Angel crossover. I wish they would though. I believe the studio said that crossovers would be impossible now that Buffy and Angel are on separate networks. The most they could do is mention each other's name, like at the end of this episode and leave it at that.

And yes... Evil Willow!!!!!
Old 10-17-01, 01:20 AM
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This post contains SPOILERS for the first four episodes of Buffy Season 6 (up through tonight), so if you don't wanna be spoiled, probably best to just skip it.

First of all: Wow. Just--wow. I can't pin down why I liked this episode so much, but it's the first time in a while (Since, I think, The Body) that a new Buffy episode kept my full attention for the entire span.

Last week's preview had me worried, but I was really impressed with the continuity between Buffy of last week and Buffy of this.

Best moments:

Spoiler:
Giles seeing Buffy for the first time
got me all choked up--he was just so darned happy.

The Kitchen Scene. Willow was very much creepy there.
Spoiler:
Her flipping between sweet-and-innocent and "Don't piss me off" was really well done--AH managed to handle the scene well


Any scene with
Spoiler:
Warren, Jonathan, and Andy. I'm a long-time Jonathan fan and they seem to perfectly embody the non-evil-bad guy. Just bored. And "Hypnotize Buffy"--Heehee.


Minor nitpick:

When are they going to realize Dawn isn't that young? She's 15. Willow, Xander, and Buffy were 15-16 at the start of season 1. You'd think someone would mention it, at some point. Like, say, Dawn?

Also (SPOILERS for a FUTURE episode--but, if you saw the commercials during the episde, you've already seen it):
Spoiler:
Did anyone else crack up at the musical clips? I'm so looking forward to this episode.


All in all, a really enjoyable episode--and it looks like some of the major subplots of for the season are getting going.
Old 10-17-01, 01:39 AM
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I think the 'major villain' of the season is still to come. I guess I don't really want to see Dark Willow.

That was a great scene between Willow and Giles though. And I guess the musical episode is a spoiler no more - they're advertising it a full 3 weeks ahead.

It was pretty funny seeing Jonathan (unexpectedly) because I saw him in today's FX episode getting Cordelia her coffee (was that his first appearance?)

I thought this episode was gonna be all out comedy but it wasn't and then from the preview of next week's episode it looks like its going to be all out comedy.

Best episode of the season so far - kudos to all involved.
Old 10-17-01, 02:09 AM
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Originally posted by MrN

It was pretty funny seeing Jonathan (unexpectedly) because I saw him in today's FX episode getting Cordelia her coffee (was that his first appearance?)
IIRC, Jonathan's first appearance was earlier in season 2--In Inca Mummy Girl. He's the guy that *almost* gets kissed by MummyWoman at the dance.

I'm just glad to have the guy back--Season 5 had an isolated feel, highlighted by the lack of the usual recurring characters (Amy, Jonathan, Ethan). Sorta nice to see that the rest of Sunnydale still exists.
Old 10-17-01, 07:28 AM
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I love how Buffy only seems comfortable nowadays when she is talking to Spike. I wonder if anyone ever saw that coming back in the early days of the Spike and Drusilla story arc. Another testament to how well Whedon and his crew are constantly "evolving" the characters.

And yes, Evil Willow rocks! I'm looking forward to seeing where this development is going to go.
Old 10-17-01, 09:13 AM
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Well, refering to my post after the premiere, they're doing everything I wanted them to do, and it's wonderful. The scene between Willow and Giles was great. "You rank amateur!" "Maybe it's not such a good idea to piss me off!" Great stuff.

As for a "crossover" ... I can't imagine that happening. I figured the whole "meeting in a special place" thing was our inside cue that she can't go to LA to visit 'Angel' because LA is on the WB. We can still hope.

I agree ... this could be the best episode so far. (Edit: I meant this season)

das

Last edited by das Monkey; 10-17-01 at 01:07 PM.
Old 10-17-01, 09:57 AM
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I don’t understand the appeal of the Evil Willow. I suspect you guys secretly want to be dominated…

I thought it was cool that they didn’t go “cute” on us and add some FX (slightly demonic voice? maybe a slight change in the eyes?). It was almost like flicking a switch for a moment. -click- evil Willow -click- good Willow. Great job by Allison.

As far as a crossover – why not? The fact that both shows have mentioned the other is a hint. And Buffy’s off to meet Angel? I can very easily imagine that happening, but I’m not holding my breath.

In my area, Buffy is on channel 13, Angel on 5. So, they could meet on channel 9. My prediction: Buffy will meet Angel. I don’t see much room for Angel in a Buffy episode

‘Nuther prediction: look for a good vs evil smackdown/bitch slap between Willow and Giles. (Well duh!)

[Wizdar fantasizes about the Leather-clad Evil Willow from a past episode. "Yes, Mistress Willow!"]
Old 10-17-01, 10:03 AM
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Originally posted by Wizdar
I don’t understand the appeal of the Evil Willow. I suspect you guys secretly want to be dominated…
The appeal for me is from a story perspective. I've never found Willow to be very "hot", even as a vampire. Nothing against her ... she's wonderful ... but I don't lie awake thinking about her. I just think the natural progression of her character is to turn bad for a while. Living in Buffy's shadow. Messing with way too much magic. Being very powerful. From Lucifer to Luthor, it's a classic tale, and I've always thought the show would go in this direction. I guess I'm now looking forward to it so much because it's validation of my thoughts for the show.

das
Old 10-17-01, 10:18 AM
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[Wizdar gives das a dirty look and continues with his…ummm…fantasy. "Harder, please, Mistress Willow!" ]
Old 10-17-01, 12:41 PM
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I sorta watched last night...wasn't totally paying attention, though, so I probably can't offer any insightful comments (not that I ever do, anyway ).

Giles coming back was cool....is he gonna be here the rest of the season or only an episode here and there? I thought he moved back to England (in real life) to be with his family....

Those 3 loser guys....maybe I wasn't paying attention enough or something, but I thought that they were just plain stupid. I enjoy the show for its witty one-liners and its subtle humor....maybe that's why I thought those guys were dumb and ridiculous.

Evil Willow...seems like the story has some potential. I'll look forward to it.

Old 10-17-01, 12:58 PM
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I thought it was an OK episode, in otherwords average. Maybe I'm crazy, but it seems that Willow and Tara could get themselves a job to start help paying bills around the place, since they live there and all though. I kept waiting for Buffy to say that. Oh well.

I liked the 3 guys, that was great. Especially when they were calling themselves super villains. I was all set for a more comic episode, but hey, you can't win 'em all. And Buffy the Construction Worker looks pretty promising in that regards. I can't wait for the musical!
Old 10-17-01, 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by robnshel
I love how Buffy only seems comfortable nowadays when she is talking to Spike. I wonder if anyone ever saw that coming back in the early days of the Spike and Drusilla story arc. Another testament to how well Whedon and his crew are constantly "evolving" the characters.
I think that is a nice change too. Have you noticed that Spike seem to completely take over the role of Angel? When Angel used to be part of the show he used to be the one having those private meetings with Buffy to provide her with support and comfort whenever she runs across a dead end. Now it's Spike's turn. I wonder if they're going to give him a soul.
Old 10-17-01, 01:58 PM
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Ehhhh, it was alright. I mean I liked it, but, mainly just fir the plot furthering moments, like Giles return, Buffy and Spike, and DarkWillow. The comedy was really bad though- I mean, after the 'throw the gun away and it goes off' bit I though they would break into a pie fight, and I really didnt like the supervillian crew, that entire thing felt flat. It just felt like all the humor was forced, too concious, probably to make up for the dark elements so far.

Last weeks episode was still the best of the season.

I think Dawn has always been sheltered, protected, and therefore a bit of a late bloomer, and thats why the crew treats her like they do. Didnt they establish when they introduced her, that Buffy's whole Slayer life was something they kept from Dawn? That would mean the matter wold still be a bit new for her.

Did anyone else notice how Xanders face was all puffy in the scene where he runs after Anya and talks with her outside? He must've had some dental work done, because in the rest of the show, he looked fine.
Old 10-17-01, 02:59 PM
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Well, I didn't like the 3 stuches either. Willow and Tara working? Good point! Never thought about that. And exactly where do they get the money from? A money spell?! 8-)

Missed next week preview but a musical? We'll see.

As for Spike, I liked him better as a sarcastic bad guy. Now he's all emotional and teary eyes. Just not cool. Bring back Angel or even the wimpy Rily, I say.

So how ARE they going to solve that money problem. Maybe Buff will slay a rich demon and get all his golds, matey! 8-)
Old 10-17-01, 03:02 PM
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Buffy should become a streetwalker...that'll solve all her financial problems...

Old 10-17-01, 03:15 PM
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Originally posted by immortal_zeus
Buffy should become a streetwalker...that'll solve all her financial problems...

And you said you never offer anything insightful.
Old 10-17-01, 03:15 PM
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Originally posted by immortal_zeus
Buffy should become a streetwalker...that'll solve all her financial problems...
...gives a whole new meaning to "wham, bam, thank you ma'am."
Old 10-17-01, 04:43 PM
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Originally posted by Wizdar
...gives a whole new meaning to "wham, bam, thank you ma'am."
and for once she'll be the one getting staked.
Old 10-17-01, 04:50 PM
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Originally posted by movielib


And you said you never offer anything insightful.
Wow, people actually responded to one of my posts in here! Woohoo! I guess I'll have to make hooker jokes more often....

Xander should sell his body...that man-whore .

Old 10-18-01, 02:56 AM
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Overall I thought the episode was mediocre. The Three-Not-So-Wise Men pretty much did it in for me.

However, there were bright points, which are the character-development happenings mentioned above. Actions (should) have consequences, and that was handled very well. If there should have been a crossover, IMHO it should have been Buffy going to L.A. to talk to Angel and "regroup"... perhaps aiding in the defeat of some serious evil, and find some kind of renewed purpose in slaying.... but bureaucracy precludes anything like that. Oh well.

Here's something I've been thinking about... Now that Buffy knows that she'll go to Heaven eventually, isn't that sort of an enticement to not feel so bad about losing? Perhaps not try so hard to slay? I wouldn't suggest that she harbor thoughts of suicide, but being pulled back from, and subsequently missing being in, Heaven, has to have some kind of implications and resolution, right? At some point she will have to seriously deal with what she's lost, and become more grounded (no pun intended) in her current mortal existence... I'm thinking along the lines of outright apathy to the point of wanting to die, leading to a true spiritual rebirth. I sincerely hope Whedon doesn't just let this go, and allow Buffy to slowly become the good ol' Slayer again without addressing this in some way.

I suppose that I'm growing somewhat impatient... bring on this season's major villain, already!

Last edited by Jad; 10-18-01 at 03:01 AM.
Old 10-18-01, 07:50 AM
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Originally posted by Slumbering Fist

and for once she'll be the one getting staked.
Hehehe... to modify a Friends reference.. She could become "Buffy. The Vampire Layer"
Old 10-18-01, 09:15 AM
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Originally posted by Jad
Now that Buffy knows that she'll go to Heaven eventually...
When did this happen?

OK. There's some ambiguity about just where she was. Spike (and others) mention a Hell "dimension". Buffy says she doesn’t know where she was. But if you’re going to throw Heaven [dimension?] in to the equation, that’s gonna make things complicated.
Old 10-18-01, 10:27 AM
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I think it's just referring to Buffy saying she didn't know anything about theology, but that she was safe and warm and finished...and then she said she was in Heaven.

They use "hell" to describe any crappy dimension. It makes sense to use "heaven" to describe any good and peaceful dimension. It is the opposite of "hell".
Old 10-18-01, 10:43 AM
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Originally posted by draven-x
I think it's just referring to Buffy saying she didn't know anything about theology, but that she was safe and warm and finished...and then she said she was in Heaven.
She said the best way to describe it was "Heaven". All that can be gathered from that statement is like you said: she was safe and warm and finished. It was a place on contentment that she has been forcibly removed from. Any theological assumptions past that are pointless. Whether she was in a "Heaven" dimension or the Christian Heaven or Sto'vo'kor is not relevant. Just as the term "Hell" is loosely used to describe a negative place outside the current realm, so should we interpret "Heaven" to be the opposite. Did she accept Christ and was sent there by a God? Was she in a warrior's afterlife for dying in battle. Did the Powers That Be recognize her life's work? Was Al the Bartender giving her a break before more difficult missions? I don't think any of these questions are relevant. What's important is that she was finally at peace, and she's been torn from that state. How she got there, what it was exactly, and whether she'll return seem immaterial.

das

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