AHHHH!!!!! Blasphemy! Take it back! :)

I INFINITELY prefer a neutered Spike to "Captain Cardboard". I really hope Riley's gone for good.

X

It only "makes sense" to consider "Heaven" as the opposite because that's the way we have been taught. [Actually, it could be argued that "Hell" is the opposite of "Heaven", not the other way around. But then we’d have to consider the chicken/egg issue. ;)]

While reference to Hell is used in various ways throughout the series, they have avoided using references to Heaven, which is why I took issue with the word. Perhaps to avoid angering Christians? :lol: While The Powers That Be is more of an Angel concept, it could still apply as the counterpoint to Hell.

I will agree, with reservations, with das about it being irrelevant. The fact remains that Buffy was at peace and was yanked from it. You could pose the question about whether or not she was “properly” dead, I suppose. But I don’t think it will be explored.

A less obvious issue: will Buffy be feeling bitter about being yanked away from -- wherever she was? I know I would.



BTW, you just KNOW that Buff and Spike are going to have to do the nasty at some point in time. :D

Ok. Fine. Perhaps my use of "Heaven" is too specific, and carries too much theological heft.. How about "peaceful-place-after-she-died"? :) Whatever. It could well be that I'm not fully acquainted with the Buffyverse (I've only been watching since the summer during reruns of Season 3), but I don't immediately see a need for distinction between "Heaven" and "peaceful-place-after-she-died". If there is, hey, I'd love to hear it. :)



This is where I disagree. If you're in a "peaceful-place", and then you're suddenly yanked to a "not-nearly-as-peaceful-place", how do you not deal with how it sucks? Wouldn't you want to go back? I think this is worth exploring.

You missed my point. :) I was saying that her removal from peace was what's important, not the particulars of the peaceful place itself. What we should take away from her discussion with Spike is that she was somewhere that made her feel content at peace and had closure to her life. Now she's been forcibly ripped from that place. And that is very much worth exploring. I was simply saying that the place she was in does not necessarily have to be Christian Heaven or any other "heaven" that we can attribute specific qualities to (like "good people go to heaven"). I hear people talking about "sin" and stuff, and whether she belonged in Heaven, and whether she'll go to Heaven again, and I think all of that is irrelevant. The particulars of where she was, what we name that place, and whether she'll return there when she dies again don't seem very important to me. What's important is that it was a peacful place, she's been removed from that place, and like you said, the show will be dealing precisely with how it sucks (I hope).

Does that clarify my comments? I am in full agreement that her removal is of paramount importance ... I just don't think it matters where she was, just that it was peaceful, and she didn't want to leave.

das

Yah. What das said.

[das, you wonder about being a thread killer. Hell, buddy, when you say all there is to say, what else is there to say. Which is to say...umm...ah, screw it! :D]

Jad, we ain't picking on you. Trust me. You'll know when we are. ;)

Um ... thanks??? :)

das

[Thinking of changing my name to Obtuse. -biggrin-]

Ah, well, it looks like you might have missed my point too, initially.... Or at least didn't clearly state your support. :) It would appear that we agree; it seems that too much emphasis, IMHO, was placed on my use of "Heaven"... It's just a little more succinct than "peaceful-place-after-she-died". ;)

Wizdar, I don't feel picked on at all... I threw an idea out there, and felt compelled to defend it. That's what open forums are all about. :)

Ok, all is cool. :)