Damn, I should've read your favorite quote first....

You are not entitled to your own opinion. You are only entitled to your own informed opinion. -- Harlan Ellison quoting Gustave Flaubert

How stupid of me...... There isn't a real possible way to express our own opinion, since we are not entitled. WELL THEN DISCUSSION HAS ENDED.......

P.S. "The sixth and seventh are observations from this silly discussion." I think that pretty much explain it all......

*sigh*

Sorry, <B>bdshort</B> ... didn't mean to ruin your thread.

das

I think I've got to agree with das Monkey on this.

Wasn't Burrows featured (positively) in a 60 minutes segment during the past 5 or 6 years for stamping his unique mark on TV.

Speaking of stamps, has anyone noticed Warren Littlefield showing up all the time for A&E Biography of recent tv stars and and E!'s TV Tales.

I think the best corollary is this:

Warren Littlefield is to Brandon Tartikoff
James Burrows is to James Brooks

That is the topic, please discuss among yourselves! ;)

You're absolutely right. das is entitled to disagree with you. Disagreement does not equal a personal attack. Writing a sentence with the words "personal attack" in it isn't a personal attack, either.
However, calling what someone says "stupid" and "ignorant" is a personal attack.

If you read what you feel is a personal attack, use the "Report this post to a moderator" link and ignore it. Do not reply to it and drag the thread off topic by either

1) Starting a flame-war, or
2) Starting a discussion over what is or isn't a personal attack, and what people are or aren't allowed to say. The mods decide that, not you.

If there is any more confusion over this issue, feel free to e-mail a mod. Please return to your conversation already in progress.

<B>Barings</B>,

Wow ... very interesting parallel. I don't hold Burrows in contempt like I do Littlefield, but you've definitely hit the nail on the head there. There's certainly an Obi-wan/Vader thing between Tartikoff/Littlefield.

das

Obi-wan/Vader is a much better comparison to Tartikoff/Littlefield, I agree.

I remember reading a magazine article around the time Tartikoff passed away where he called Littlefield a "cockroach". It was apparently a compliment about his ability to withstand any shakeout or management restructuring at NBC.

Burrows is good (and that comparison is somewhat unfair), but I agree that he's been somewhat overvalued by SuperJim88 after looking at his imdb rez.

Don't sell yourself short. There's a lot of merit to what you suggest.

I remember that cockroach article too ... he said something like, "he'd survive nuclear war." I think it was a slam/compliment. In many ways I think he appreciated Littlefield, but at the same time despised his methods and lack of originality. Tartikoff was a brilliant and wonderful man, both in business and artistically. Littlefield knew how to make money. There's certainly some overlap there but also a huge source of disagreement. I remember when Tartikoff left for Paramount he made some comment about Littlefield's upcoming Fall line-up making him sick to his stomach.

It's tragic Tartikoff never had the chance to really get his independent production ventures off the ground. The loss of hist vision still resonates through the television community.

das

Will & Grace: What the hell happened to this show!?
 

I've never been a huge fan of this show. Meaning, I don't watch it religiously. But the times I've have I thought it was cleverly written, acted and directed. Even though they went overboard on the celebrity guest appearances. And I know that there are quite a few people here who truly hate the show and would argue that it's never been good. But what the hell has happened to the show this year? It's a trainwreck! It's quite clear they have new writers. Tonight's episode where Will and Grace go on a bike trip with Grace's new boyfriend and his friend was appallingly bad. The dialogue was just awful. It was like watching a show that was trying to imitate "Will & Grace" when it was good. Like maybe something on the WB. The only saving grace was Karen. Although she has beaten the drunk thing into the ground, it still makes me laugh. But for the most part, this show feels done.

Might want to get some shades while you're seeing the light. :)

Seriously, I enjoyed the first season. It was pretty clever and funny. Since then, it's been pretty stale and gimmicky, a trend that swept through all the NBC sit-coms about the same time. What surprised me the most was that I didn't even get a chuckle from most episodes. <I>Friends</I>, which I'm a very vocal critic of, at least makes me laugh now and then. I think it's a mere shadow of its former self, but it still makes me laugh. After the first season of <I>Will & Grace</I>, I barely cracked a smile (except, of course, admittedly for some of Karen's antics).

das

I just like looking at the main female character

since the introduction of Harry Connick Jr's character I am no longer interested in this show.

the whole baby idea gave me a huge...

"We have no more good ideas..so lets bury this show into the crap hole."


feeling

I've probably only seen the show about 4 times, but Debra Messing is about the only reason I'd switch channels to that show on purpose. "Jack" and that other woman are like fingernails on a chalkboard to me.

mmmm, hot redheads.

The show was excellent the first season, pretty good the second and pretty bad from seasons three to now. By season three, they were flaunting the gay jokes and Karen and Jack had become nothing but caricatures.

IMO opinion it started going downhill when Woody Harrelson left.
The last 2 episodes have just been horrid.

I watched this show off and on for a few seasons. I never thought that it was as great as everyone seemed to think. I liked some of the Woody Harrelson episodes as well. Watched a bit with HCJ was night, and turned it off. Not interested in the least anymore...

Mike...your standards are low man.....she isn't much to look at.

Unless you are into that " I am skeletor look."

Is Harry Connick, jr the least funny recurrent character ever featured on any sitcom? I've never seen anyone with such a terrible delivery; he reads every joke in the same way that a real doctor might inform a family member that their loved one has died -- uncomfortable and somber. It's not a good thing.

Assuming you mean Karen, then I agree 100% :D

Actually, the way they've been doing stereotypes, it could also be Will or Jack they are talking about ;)

Bad Bad Bad....they need to axe this and Frasier asap...talk about stale.....ugh. I've never seen a show go from so good to so bad so fast. I don't quite get it.....perhaps the whole drunk friend/gay friend gimmick was just that, a one-trick pony that they could only do so much with.

and the whole baby thing? Geesh....talk about desperate.....

Never, ever liked it--and as the highest profile gay-themed show on any network, I was certainly dying to like it...

I think, by the time Cheers was finally coming to a close, I was already very tired of the Brooks-style sitcom, so neither this or Frasier ever had any appeal...

I can't tell you how annoying it is to be stuck with Will & Grace and Showtime's watchable-but-mediocre Queer As Folk as the only two principally-gay shows in the US...

What I wouldn't give for a just one quality drama or comedy from the insider's perspective... I suppose it'll happen eventually, but the *fact* is that quality TV is hard to come by, period...

Well, Six Feet Under has a largely gay perspective and is a damn fine show.

I saw an episode of the British "QAF" when I was in the UK a few years ago and thought it was extremely well done. Although a little too graphic for me in spots. But excellent acting and direction. I also had the misfortune of catching 10 minutes of the U.S. remake/version on Showtime while channel surfing when it first came on, and couldn't switch it off fast enough. It was without a doubt the biggest piece of garbage I have ever seen. I've never seen such smug and terrible acting in my life. An awful show.

I'm still holding my breath for the first DVD boxset (no premium channels)... Hope you're right; it sure sounds great...

(I'm not in a position to judge, not having seen it yet, but I was under the impression that the gay brother was just one of the side-stories; I guess I'm so tired of the "gay best friend" thing that I'm dying for central characters...)