Dumbass.

;)

The retrospective made me laugh a hellva lot and think about how funny the show used to be a few years back. I think the characters (especially Jack and Karen) had become charactures).

Didn't the creators leave due to a lawsuit over fees owed to them over the series?

This is where the chaos began...season 5.

Dec. 12, 2003
Accusing NBC of "misuse of its vast power," Will & Grace writer-producers David Kohan and Max Mutchnick on Thursday filed suit against the network, accusing it essentially of selling the rights to the show to itself at "tens of millions of dollars" below what it might have fetched in open bargaining with rival networks. A similar suit filed in 1997 by the producers of Home Improvement against ABC was settled out of court. Both lawsuits observed that the increasing number of partnerships between producers and networks -- often compelled by the networks as a condition of doing business -- have led to closed negotiations between commonly owned participants.

March 4, 2004
NBC has countersued Will & Grace creators David Kohan and Max Mutchnick after the duo had charged in their own law suit that the network had negotiated a sweetheart deal with the producers of the program, NBC Studios, for the show's renewal. The network charged that Kohan and Mutchnick had been invited to participate in the negotiations but had declined because they had intended to file a law suit all along. "Mutchnick, Kohan and their handlers were only interested in creating an illusion of cooperation when in fact they were totally uncooperative, duplicitous and guilty of shameless self-dealing in the process," the NBC complaint said.

And speaking of guest stars, here's a list of everyone who ever guest starred on it:

Alec Baldwin (as Malcolm, a man hired by Stan to return Will to the legal profession)
Jack Black (as Dr. Isaac Hershberg, who examines Karen)
Beau Bridges (as Daniel McFarland, Jack's stepfather)
Edward Burns (as Nick, Grace's first serious boyfriend since her divorce from Leo)
Richard Chamberlain (as Clyde, an elderly man whom Will brings to game night)
Glenn Close (as Fannie Lieber, a noted photographer)
Joan Collins (as Helena Barnes, a designer with whom Grace competes for a job)
Macaulay Culkin (as Jason Towne, the lawyer representing Karen)
Matt Damon (as Owen, Jack's heterosexual rival)
Geena Davis (as Janet Adler, Grace's screwed-up sister)
Kristin Davis (as Nadine, Vince's straight female friend)
Ellen DeGeneres (as Sister Louise, a nun to whom Will sells Grace's old car)
Patrick Dempsey (as Matt, a sportscaster who becomes Will's boyfriend)
Taye Diggs (a moviegoer who "meets cute" with Will)
Michael Douglas (as Gavin Hatch, a somewhat closeted gay cop)
Minnie Driver (as Lorraine Finster, Stan's British mistress)
Edie Falco (as Deirdre, one of a pair of lesbian real-estate "flippers")
Victor Garber (as Peter Bovington, a former actor now working as a doorman)
Andy Garcia (as Milo, a restaurateur and boyfriend of Karen's)
Sara Gilbert (as Cheryl, like Will, a Barry Manilow fanatic, a.k.a. "fanilow")
Seth Green (as Randall Finn, a gay former child star)
Woody Harrelson (as Nathan, one of Grace's boyfriends)
Neil Patrick Harris (as Bill, the leader of a group of former homosexuals)
Stacy Keach (as Wendell Schacter, a former colleague of Jack's who usurps his acting class)
Hal Linden (as Alan Mills, an elderly gay man who becomes Will's "sugar daddy")
Madonna (as Liz, Karen's roommate for a brief period of time)
Lee Majors (as Burt Wolfe, a friend of Grace's father)
Camryn Manheim (as Psychic Sue)
Dylan McDermott (as Tom, a boyfriend of Will's)
Demi Moore (as Sissy, Jack's former babysitter)
Rosie O'Donnell (as Bonnie, Elliot's lesbian mother)
Luke Perry (as Aaron, a "hot gay nerd" bird-watcher on whom Jack develops a crush)
Suzanne Pleshette (as Lois Whitley, Karen's estranged mother)
Sydney Pollack (as George Truman, Will's father)
Debbie Reynolds (as Bobbi Adler, Grace's mother)
Molly Shannon (as the loony Val Bassett, who lives in Will and Grace's building)
Nicollette Sheridan (as Danielle Morty, a fellow doctor who comes on to Leo)
Jamie-Lynn Sigler (as Ro, Vince's lesbian sister)
Mira Sorvino (as Diane, an ex-girlfriend of both Leo and Will)
Britney Spears (as Amber Loiuse, a conservative Christian sidekick to Jack)
Eric Stoltz (as Tom Cassidy, a college boyfriend of Grace's)
Sharon Stone (as Georgia Keller, Will and Grace's psychiatrist)
Rip Torn (as Lionel Banks, a man Karen cheats on Stan with)
Tracey Ullman (as Anne, the instructor of a cooking class that Will and Jack attend)
Gene Wilder (as the mentally unstable Stein of Doucette and Stein)

Guest stars playing themselves:

Kevyn Aucoin
Kevin Bacon
Candice Bergen
Cher (Episode 'Gypsies, Tramps and Weed' and 'A.I.: Artificial Insemination')
Sandra Bernhard
Katie Couric
John Edward
Rudy Galindo
Deborah Harry
Janet Jackson
Elton John (claiming himself to be the leader of the "Gay Mafia")
James Earl Jones
Matt Lauer
Jennifer Lopez
Patti LuPone
Barry Manilow
Martina Navratilova
Bebe Neuwirth
Rip Taylor

That's not a complete list, by any means. Missing are Alan Arkin, Orson Bean, Jason Biggs, Veronica Cartwright, John Cleese, Blythe Danner, Dave Foley, Dan Futterman, Jeff Goldblum, Judith Ivey, Lainie Kazan, Piper Laurie, Josh Lucas, Bernadette Peters, Andy Richter, Tom Skerritt, Helen Slater....

Rob

ooops. oh well. if you find a complete list, i'll be happy to post it.

Although I didn't mind that happening I agree with you. When I bought the 1st season Boxset I noticed that in the pilot Megan used her real voice for Karen. Megan's real voice is very different from Karen's. Then all of a sudden in the next ep she had the high pitched "karen voice".

That wasn't Megan's real voice. It was still exaggerated.

Her making her voice higher as a character choice after the pilot isn't what we're talking about here. As a die-hard fan of the show, I have to agree that both Jack and Karen became slapstick charicatures that lost any grounding in reality. Will and Grace became even MORE selfish and shallow to a point where they almost became unlikeable. And again, this all started during the downward spiral that was the 5th season.

It did have a lot of good moments after that point...they were just a lot fewer than they had been, unfortunately.

So the idea for those of us who loved WILL & GRACE's heyday is to collect Seasons 1-4 and then pretend it all ended there, eh?

Enh. I'd even get season 5. It definitely had some great moments.

After that, it's pretty much "best of's." The Mira Sorvino episode (from season 6, I believe) is probably in my top 5 episodes ever. I can laugh hysterically every time i see it. Dunno what happened with that one eppy but the writers were definitely "on it."

The Mira Sorvino episode (which is from Season 6) is one of my all-time favorites too. Sheer sitcom perfection, and no matter how many times I see it, it still cracks me up every time. I loved two other episodes from Season 6 as well: the ones with Candice Bergen and James Earl Jones. Those three episodes are enough to get me to buy Season 6. I had thought about stopping there, but I've decided I want the entire series on DVD, even the dismal Season 7 and the less-dismal-but-still-WAY-past-its-prime Season 8.

Rob

Ditto.
yeah, the candace bergan one is pretty damn good as well. :)

Ok, perhaps you weren't talking about the but it still applies. Also, in the pilot it was her real voice. I'm a huge fan of Megan and that's the first thing I noticed when I saw the pilot just in the last several months. She was more toned down and sophisticated. She remained sophisticated but then the snobbiness, voice, and out of touch with those below her got ramped up.

Seriously, go back and watch it.

For some reason, the affiliate with the rights to W&G in syndication around here shows the pilot like once a month. I always catch it for some reason. I don't understand how that keeps working out, but I know I have seen it at least four times this year.

That isn't MM's voice. It's not the squeal of later Karen, but you can see that they were headed down that direction from the start.

Fuck. Whatever. I guess It's some in between voice. Fine.

haha yup. don't fuck with me on W&G. I have EVERY episode on DVD. ;) The first 5 seasons I have on vhs. ;) I KNOW this show.
My friends and I used to have marathons in college watching it. One time, we played $25,000 pyramid beforehand. ;)

fuck with you? please. I still think it was her voice but I'll give in just because it's no big deal. It's not like I'll get a check for fighting this battle. :D