Also, Darren...political correctness? You're kidding, right!?

I think you guys are being WAY to hyper sensitive. She is a public figure and thus, we get to make fun of her. Is this any different that people calling our President "shrub"??? It is not, but there seems to be a bit of an unwritten rule that you don't make fun of someone who is gay despite the fact that you are just making a play on words with her name.

I, for one, think that Ellen's stand up is amazing. I have her CD and listen to it about once a month. She is hillarious. But, I also think calling her Ellen Degenerate is kinda' funny too. Decent play on words. I seriously doubt you guys are that upset when other names are made fun of.

I personally don't have a problem with goofing on someone or low brow humor (like "That's My Bush"). I do however think it is childish and troll like to post just name calling. Such as above. It brings absolutely nothing to this discussion. If you hate the woman, tell me why. Just don't call her a degenerate. Which by the way, is not very clever to begin with. And old.

I thought i already told you, she's not funny to me, at all, as a matter of fact i find her to be as annoying, if not more, than that heinous little Regal Cinemas girl and that "Cinemascank" Brittney Spears.

My mom used to tell me a story about this kettle...

Keep up mee2. I asked for you to elaborate.

And if you are going to stalk me and reference other threads I've posted on DVD Talk, you better try harder than the link you listed. You see, I didn't just call that little girl a brat or Britney a skank and leave it at that. That was a DISCUSSION I started. And not some hit and run post like yours. Nice try though. So shove your kettle.

So it would be alright for me to start a thread on "Why do you hate Helen?". If i do, will you promise not to ge too bent out of shape? I'm starting to believe that you're more than a fan of hers, maybe there's some emotional attachment between you and her, if so then please accept my sincerest apologies.

Either way, i promise not to slander Ellen as long as you leave Brittney alone.

Get help.

Won't you help me?

Getting back on topic, I watched the premier last night (had taped it) and thought it was pretty good. It did seem a little stiff but will hopefully loosen up. I thought the subtle gay jokes were pretty funny (fortunately there weren't too many), especially the part when she re-entered her old room. Personally I think Ellen is very funny but everyone has their own tastes. She has a very sarcastic style of humor, almost similar to the Norm show but not quite as blatant.

The thing I like most about both Jerry Seinfeld and Ellen, neither are mean spirited or offensive like most comediennes. And I like those comics too. But that can get old after a while. Both Jerry and Ellen's humor is sarcastic. But usually at their expense. I completely disagree with the one person in this discussion that said Ellen was abrasive. Goofy, yes. Abrasive? No. That would be Andrew Dice Clay, Howard Stern, the late Sam Kinison to name a few. She's not even in the same zip code as them. Speaking of which, whatever happened to the Dice man?

To start with, if you truly think Ellen has gotten worse over time, i have no problem calling her Ellen Degenerate, as long as you pronounce it that way. The way mee2 said he is using it is pronounced a different way than the word that rhymes with her name. If you truly are trying to be funny and make what I call a tasteless joke by inferring she is a degenerate, at least do that. If you are saying her career has degenerated, it doesn't rhyme with her name, sounds stupid and just isn't funny either.

As for kvrdave, I think there is a big difference between calling Dubya "shrub" and calling Ellen Ellen Degenerate. If the use of words is being used to indicated she is a degenerate, which is how i have heard that used 100 percent of the time, then it is wrong to me. It's not about being PC or overly sensative. I think it's wrong to indicate someone is a degenerate because she is a lesbian. As for the "shrub" nickname, the reason that nickname came along is because Dubya is the little Bush or younger Bush or whatever have you because his father was president before him. And a little bush is sometimes referred to as a shrub. Hence, his nickname. Even if it is used derogatively, it is being used to show that people think he is incapable or unexperienced, not that he is immoral or a degenerate.

That being said, I disagree with those in the thread who say Ellen is not funny. Humor is very subjective. You may love Adam Sandler and I may hate him. I may swear by Denis Leary and you can't stand him. I like Ellen's comedy and you don't. That doesn't make her any less funny than some comedian or television star that you like, it only makes her less funny to you.

Mines was not ana ttack on her sexuality at all, an i'm sure that i'm not the only one in these forums that's ever called a public figure out of their name. Someone asked me why i called her a degenerate and by definition it summed up what i felt about the direction her carrer has taken over the last few years.
I enjoy the "sarcastic" humor of comedians such as Seinfeld, George Carlin, and at times Denis Leary, Ellen on the other hand i find to be irritating and totally unfunny.
How fun would the world be if we always agreed with one another?

Sigh. Mee2, you just don't get it. And I don't think you ever will. Before you respond to this (and God I hope you don't), re-read what people have tried to say to you.

Your initial response in this thread was rather lame. And just begged for negative response whether you will ever admit it or not. I'm not sure your follow-up definition of degenerate was your way of defending yourself or trying to cute, but that was just bizarre. You say that sums up how you feel Ellen's career has gone the last few years? Well, I bet there's not one starving stand-up comedienne out there who wouldn't give their left leg to have one month of her career. Ellen may have fallen off the radar for personal reasons for a short time, but she has certainly rebounded. She had a successful large venue comedy tour last year that resulted in an HBO special. Which she received an Emmy nomination for. Speaking of that Emmy, she was asked to host that awards show, which she is. Has a brand new show on the air again. Yeah, the direction her career has taken (!?)

Now would you drop it and move on?

What, and ride her coat tail and pretend to admit that she's funny?
No thanks....

WTH, i'll drop it seeing as you're fond of the gal, and add to the fact that IMO she's not even worth the time i've already spent debating.

No hard feelings though.

No, I'm not kidding. I do not like political correctness, and this is pure political correctness. I don't think that homosexuality is in any degenerate, but I do think the play on words is funny. I like "Ellen Degenerate" better than the other one I've heard "Ellen Degenitals", which is a bigger strech. The same way I like the name "Hillary God-damn Clinton" for Hillary Rodam Clintion even though I have nothing against Hillary. The same way I call Britney Spears "Britney Hemispheres" even though I have nothing against half-naked large-breasted teenage blondes. Or Christina Agulerra (sp, I'm sure) "Christina Alligator" even though I have nothing against people with non-Anglo-Saxon names. The same way (back when Gene Siskel was alive) I always wished that Ebert (the fat one) was Siskel (the straight but steriotypically-gay seeming one) so that the names "Crisco and Sherbert" would fit their images, even though I have nothing against Siskel, Ebert, fat guys, and guys who are or who seem gay.

ALL-- not some, ALL of humor is based on someone or something in some way being hurt, scared, confused, embarrased, or otherwise unfortunate or mistreated. ALL of humor has SOMEONE that it's going to offend. But that doesn't mean that the offended should whine and demand that they have the right to supress that humor.

People offended by calling Ellen "Ellen Degenerate" need to lighten the hell up.

Oh bull. This is not political correctness. Give me a break! You're the only one turning it into THAT. Which is why I asked if you were kidding. I only responded to her being called a degenerate because I thought it was stupid. And OLD. Period. And you're absolutely right, it *is* only a play on words and nothing else. I didn't think for a second mee2 was calling her that because she is a gay.

Last word on this to everyone else who's still reading, promise. I just wasn't going to be accused of being P.C.

Nah, i have no problem whatsoever with her being gay, hell i'm moving to West Hollywood next year!

I agree with Daytripper that the degenerate joke is tired but I also agree with Darren Garrison that Ellen DeGeneres is not funny and people need to lighten up. And I'm gay for what that's worth (even gayer than Tom Cruise) and I love politically incorrect humour even though it can and does offend me on occasion - but so what?

IMHO she is a mediocre talent and forgettable. I've tried watching both her shows and just didn't find them funny - although Cloris Leachman is a hoot. And I thought even less of Ellen ever since she dated a straight woman who was/is so obviously in need of psychiatric help (you know, Celestia, the space alien). I know, we all make mistakes, but Ellen and Anne chose to ride the publicity machine and as public figures they have to expect jokes, even cruel ones which can be very hurtful, for taking themselves so seriously.

But I do give Ellen kudos for coming out publicly and to her mom for her complete and informed support. I just wish Ellen would shut up now and go away - give a sitcom to Margaret Cho, god dammit! Now she's funny!

I think Darren Garrison's last paragraph in his previous post is very well thought out and I couldn't agree more.

Couldn't agree with you more that Margaret Cho is one of the funniest women out there. I've seen her live five times. But she had a sitcom once and it was cancelled for a reason. It was horrible. It's doesn't matter how talented you are, if the premise of your show and the writing are bad, the show is going to flop. Like Cho's. Just look at all the comediennes who have had a shot at a weekly series that didn't last. But on stage? They're hilarious. Which is a mystery to me. Anyway, I've also thought Ellen was better suited for the stage and not either screen, big or small. "Mr. Wrong" anyone? Woof! Although she was pretty good in the little seen "Goodbye Lover". Cho also comes across a bit stiff on the big and small screen (her stint on "Sex and the City" and her small supporting role in "Face/Off'). And for the record, I thought episode #2 of "The Ellen Show" was mediorce that had moments of hilarity. After watching last night's show, I'm not sure how they're going to stretch this premise out for an entire season let alone more. It's going to be a challenge.

Also Teorema, I'm so not politically correct it's embarrassing. I watch such low brow fare as "Strangers With Candy" (love it!), "South Park", the Farrelly Brother movies, etc. So I enjoy humor that most find offensive. I guess the reason I can't stand Ellen being called the "d" word, I heard that f*cking hypocrite Jerry Faldwell call her that on Larry King and it just made me furious. Here was someone who is supposed to be preaching love and forgiveness. He was also the first person I ever heard call her this. Unbelievable.

I know what you mean Daytripper, Margaret Cho's first sitcom was dreadful - like an Asian "Step by Step". I think my favourite sitcom of all time was "Roseanne". Always well written (well, maybe not the last season), believeable characters and above all, witty and insightful comedy. I think Roseanne herself is nuts, but she is an endearing nut in my opinion. I like South Park too, especially when they skewer religion.

And I know what you mean by the whole degenerate joke coming from "Rev" Jerry Falwell. He makes my skin crawl, as does Pat Robertson, Fred Phelps and all other fundamentalist Christians who don't practice what they preach. In general I would find them funny, but what makes me scared is that they have such a big following still. I'm glad I live in pagan British Columbia where we have very few religious loonies pushing their superstitions down our throats.

Once again, I couldn't agree with you more. As I've said here before in the past in one of those "all-time favorite" sitcom polls, I think "Roseanne" is way way WAY up there. I know a lot of people hate this show, but I think that's because they just don't like Roseanne. Which is sad. And I'll admit, there were times throughout the series run that she said and did a few things in her personal life that made *me* shudder. But I didn't watch her show because of her personal politics or anything. "Roseanne" had an amazing cast and writers. I felt it worked because it was so real. And took chances others shows were too afraid to. It definitely broke new ground for sitcoms. For the first seven seasons, I thought this show was consistently funny and right on the mark. The last two, with new writers clearly, were just awful. I still tape and watch this show religiously. Save for those last two years. And fast forward any scenes with that hack coat-tail riding blood sucking painfully unfunny and untalented Tom Arnold.

Yep, I watch a double-dose of Roseanne every day right after the news. I've seen them so many times but still laugh out loud even though I know most of the lines.

My favourite was the pot smoking episode, but there was many many others. I don't think there was ever a better combo than Roseanne and Laurie Metcalf. That show was ROBBED by the Emmys. It makes me sick that Roseanne was vilified by the press simply because she was overweight and "white trash".

I hate Tom Arnold as well, but who doesn't?

I'd like to chime in on Roseanne. It was indeed one of the best sitcoms of the late 80's-early 90's. What made it so good was that is was real. You WERE looking at America in all its sweet and raunchy glory. The Annual Halloween episode became a staple, as it did on the Simpsons. The show was at its best when Tom Arnold was both writing and appearing on screen. Roseanne began to go nuts after her surgeries though. Near then end, the show was just dreadful.

As one of the few people who actually saw Margaret Cho's sitcom, I can attest to the fact that it was indeed a Chernobyl type disaster. Networks tend to pretty much castrate whatever edge a comedian has. Even Tim Allen had to tone down much of his macho shennanigans, although he did keep the grunting and tools.

Now, as for Ellen. Well, I saw her HBO special and I must confess that the opening was pretty funny, but as the show dragged on, it just became utter tedium. You could make the assumption that because she's a lesbian, her act must be "edgy" and "out there." It really isn't. Her humour is pretty bland and home spun, which would be poson for any your more vindictive comedians. She's too nice to be mean. I do wish her all the best though.

I question how much writing Tom Arnold did on "Roseanne" for two reasons. 1) He sucks as a stand-up. I mean, have you ever seen him? He's truly awful. And 2) Not one of his **three** failed sitcoms were funny either. It's no secret at this point that Tom had complete control over Roseanne's life. As everyone has admitted to in interviews, especially on that E! Special. Hell, John Goodman hated the guy so much, as soon as his scenes with Tom were over, he'd walk out of the room. The man wanted to kill him. I think Tom got the writing gig just like he got a co-starring gig on the show, because Roseanne loved him. Too blind to see he was using her.

Back on topic. I saw the episode of Ellen reading Walden. Actually, it was pretty funny. I never watched the old Ellen show much but this one was quite good.

And for Margaret Cho's "American Girl"...it was very funny up until they tried to make drastic changes to it. It's a real shame there aren't more Asians on tv.

Roseanne was hilarious. It was a shame that Married with Children didn't enjoy the same ratings success when their brand of white trash humor preceded it.