Joe Molotov

Fixed.

hahn

Heh. Hey, I laughed.

Zien

So with iTunes & AOL starting to offer paid downloads, is there anywhere to legally download (and pay for) the first 10 episodes of The West Wing Season 7? I just finished the season 6 set, and DVRd eps 11-end. And would rather not have to wait for the DVD set. Or, when will Bravo start airing season 7?

Mopower

I just got an email from HBO telling me that I had downloaded an episode of Entourage and they gave me the standard "delete it or we'll sue" bullshit. What's the difference between downloading an episode and watching it or recording it with your Tivo or VCR and watching it?

Groucho

Eh? How'd they know that?Well, for starters, are you an HBO subscriber?

Chew

Not only that, but how will they know you deleted it (or didn't)??

Mopower

Yes. But an HBO show was a bad example to use.

Groucho

Perhaps he works for HBO and he download to a network drive?

Mopower

Here's the email I received from my ISP.
I censored out IP addresses.





The report below implicates your Internet account in an activity or situation [Copyright Infringement] that is a violation of our Acceptable Use Policy (AUP):

http://support.netins.net/AUP.shtml

It is possible you are not aware of the situation, which has been reported to us, but we ask that you take the necessary steps to ensure this does not continue. This means that as the owner of your Internet account, you should make all users aware of the AUP and consequences, which could result in the event we receive future complaints.

If you do not know what this report is about then you may have a virus causing activities that are in violation of our AUP. For information on virus removal and protection please visit http://security.netins.net

Please see the report below.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Bryan
netINS Abuse
24/7 Technical Support
eSupport Home:
Email:
AUP:

Here is the logfile entry showing your connection at the time in this report:

07:19:05.09 2 POP-2320[CENSORED] '[email protected]' linked from [CENSORED] to [CENSORED] 17:23:32.57 2 POP-81641([CENSORED]) '[email protected]' linked from [CENSORED] to [CENSORED]

Customer - 07/18/2006 10:04 AM
Tuesday, July 18, 2006


Iowa Network Services, Inc.
312 8th Street
Suite 730
Des Moines, IA 50309 US


RE:Â Unauthorized Distribution of the Copyrighted Television Program Entitled
    Entourage


Dear netINS Network Services Abuse:

We are writing this letter on behalf of Home Box Office, Inc. ("HBO").

We have received information  leading us to belief that an individual has utilized the above-referenced IP address at the noted date and time to offer downloads of copyrighted television program(s) through a "peer-to-peer" service, including such title(s) as:

    Entourage

The distribution of unauthorized copies of copyrighted television programs constitutes copyright infringement under the Copyright Act, Title 17 United States Code Section 106(3). Since you own this IP address, we request that you immediately do the following:

1) Disable access to the individual who has engaged in the conduct described above; and/or 2) Take other appropriate action against the account holder under your Abuse Policy/Terms of Service Agreement.

On behalf of HBO, owner of the exclusive rights to the copyrighted material at issue in this notice, we hereby state, that we have a good faith belief that use of the material in the manner complained of is not authorized by HBO, its respective agents, or the law.

Also, we hereby state, under penalty of perjury, under the laws of the State of New York and under the laws of the United States, that the information in this notification is accurate and that we are authorized to act on behalf of the owner of the exclusive rights being infringed as set forth in this notification.

Please direct any end user queries to the following address:

Steve Rosenthal
Legal Department
Home Box Office, Inc.
1100 Avenue of the Americas
New York, NYÂ 10036
212.512.1780 – phone
212.512.5854 – fax
[email protected] – email

Kindly include the Case ID 138536931, also noted above, in the subject line of all future correspondence regarding this matter.

We appreciate your assistance and thank you for your cooperation in this matter. Your prompt response is requested.

Respectfully,

Marianne Henderson
Enforcement Coordinator
SafeNet, Inc.



------------------------------
Infringement Detail:

Tracker IP: CENSORED
Tracker Port: 80
Tracker URL: http://tracker2.bt-chat.com/announce...=100&compact=1

Infringing Work: Entourage
Filepath: Entourage.S03E06.HDTV.XviD-LOL.[eztv] -^mininova.org^-.torrent
Filename: Entourage.S03E06.HDTV.XviD-LOL.avi
First Found: 17 Jul 2006 11:34:34 EDT (GMT -0400)
Last Found: 17 Jul 2006 11:34:34 EDT (GMT -0400)
Filesize: 238,596k
IP Address: CENSORED
IP Port: 7824
Network: BTPeers
Protocol: BitTorrent

==================== application File Attachment ====================
signature.cer, 1090 bytes, added to incident

==================== application File Attachment ====================
138536931.xml, 904 bytes, added to incident


Question Reference #060718-000067
---------------------------------------------------------------
Contact Information: [email protected]
Date Created: 07/18/2006 10:04 AM
Last Updated: 07/18/2006 01:06 PM
Status: Warned
Operating System: Connection Type: Web Browser: Email Client:

Zien

So what are all the legal downloading sites?

crankyman

bittorent??

Mopower

Yes.

treszoks

PeerGuardian
http://phoenixlabs.org/

Mopower

I have it and it's up to date.

Slayer2005

Strange that you got contacted. I think it might be impossible for them to contact me since I don't use my ISP's email and not even sure if I remember what it is. lol.

BobDole42

one is legal (time-shifting) and the other is copyright infringement.

Mopower

Yeah that's the point of my question. Thanks for not answering it.

illini420

I definitely understand that downloading tv off of the internet is copyright infringment. Actually, I can't believe there are some here that think otherwise...

Anyways, not trying to entirely change the subject, but I bought a Slingbox recently and in using it technically I am downloading TV over the Internet (even though I am paying for it via my cable bill). I haven't looked into it much yet, but I'm sure that violates copyright law somehow as well. I'm not worried about the Feds shutting down my Slingbox though. Just wondering how long it will take before one of the networks or studios sues to block this since it's not really time-shifting as with a DVR or VCR, but instead it's place-shifting.

runner001

Forgive me if this was already addressed. I'm jumping in this conversation and I didn't read the previous pages.

I own a ReplayTV and it has a IVS (Internet Video Sharing) function. It allows me to send and receive TV shows via my internet connection with any other fellow ReplayTV owners. This is technically not simply "time shifting", right? So how would this be viewed in this legality of downloading debate?

BobDole42

I'm not sure what the confusion is. The Supreme Court has held that, under the Fair Use provisions of Title 17, recording programs for later use ("time-shifting") is legal. Simply making a copy, whether it is for your own personal use (in this case to catch an episode you missed) or for profit is simple copyright infringement. The Act gives the copyright holder the exclusive right to control copies of the work. Making an unauthorized copy that does not fall within any of the Fair Use defenses is just that - an unauthorized (and therefore unlawful) copy.

I understand that the law might seem odd to you, in that it prohibts one type of conduct while allowing another, even when they both have the same end-goal (personal use in a private setting). But the law is what it is.

Jericho

Maybe this comparison will help. You record a song off the radio. This MIGHT be okay as a fair use. I say might, because I have no known case law to back this up, but there's a colorable argument for fair use. However, Napster, Grokster, or basically any other music downloading services are illegal. So downloading a song off them isn't okay. Copying from the radio = VCR. Downloading from the internet = napster/grokster illegal use.

I realize the comparison isn't perfect. I just threw it out there as an attempt to understand. In general, any reproduction or distribution of a copyrighted work is illegal. Unless there's a fair use or consent by the copyright owner (and there's obviously no consent here). And the problem is one never knows if there's a fair use without adjusication of your use. One can rely on previous case law to try and say a use is a fair use. Such as by saying VCR "time-shifting" is a fair use, but unless you have direct case law, any claim of fair use outside of that is probably wrong and certainly unknown as to the legality.

Jericho

You're not only making copies, but copying and sending them (distribution) to third parties. A second potential illegal act. The initial copying might be seen as a fair use using the Sony "time-shifting" logic. But sending and sharing such work doesn't sound legal to me. One would have to look at the case law to see if there's anything allowing such a use. I doubt there is. You can try and argue fair use. And maybe, just maybe there's some loophole buried in the DMCA (I'm not all that up to date on the DMCA), although that is unlikely. But my initial reaction is that such actions are illegal.

tonyc3742

Time shifting, whether through DVR, DVDR, or VHS, is for you or your family, or 'private home use'.
Transferring these files electronically, over the internet or wireless or burned onto DVD, is not; it's illegally distributing copyrighted content.
What if I recorded a show on my DVDr to watch next week. Totally legit under 'fair use'.
What if I made 100 copies of that same show on DVDr, and came to my work break room or a street corner and gave them away? Is that legal, or does that fall under 'Fair Use'? Transferring the files over the net is the same thing, over a different venue.
The person who downloads one episode of a program he missed, is violating 'fair use' less than the person who's *uploading* that episode to 100 leechers, but they're both violating it.
I really don't see anything ethically wrong with downloading an episode of a show that I have the right to see [say Entourage, if I'm subscribed to HBO], watching it once, and deleting it, but I do admit based on my limited understanding of the law that it is illegal. And of course, as I said, the person uploading is performing an unethical and illegal act.

Mopower

Alright that makes sense. It's stupid but it makes sense.

runner001

I'm not aruging whether or not you'r right. I have no idea. However, if you are right, then there are thousands of RTV users breaking the law daily and being facilitated by the RTV servers who allow us to connect to each other's units. As far as I'm aware, its been in use (sending and receiving these shows via the RTV unit) for many many years now with no legal action being taken. There is a website set up to help us view what shows we each have on our units and to make requests from whomever has the show.