Is Something Rotten in Penn & Teller Bull****land?
#1
Thread Starter
DVD Talk Hero
Is Something Rotten in Penn & Teller Bull****land?
First there's the Holier Than Thou show. This episode really pissed off many religious folks, especially because it drove a stake through the Mother Theresa myth of sainthood. The episode was soon pulled from reruns it had been scheduled for and has been pulled from Video on Demand availability on many (if not all) cable systems. On my own Charter Cable system here in Madison, WI it is the only previously aired Season 3 episode that is not available.
Now, tomorrow's scheduled episode, Signs From Heaven, which promised to ridicule messages some religious people think they are getting from such things as the Virgin Mary's "image" on a grilled cheese sandwich is nowhere to be found on the schedule. It is being replaced by a rerun of Conspiracy Theories.
Now I realize tomorrow is the Fourth of July and maybe Showtime thought it was better to not air an original episode on the holiday when people are going to be out watching fireworks. But they are not pushing all episodes back a week but holding to next week's show being Ghostbusters and there is no word on if or when Signs From Above will now be shown.
Some people on the Showtime P&T Bullshit! message boards are screaming "censorship." Now I don't see it as such since Showtime is a private company and I think they have the right to schedule anything they want as long as it doesn't violate a contract into which they have entered.
But the questions remains, is Showtime knuckling under to pressure? Are P&T being reined in? Are P&T pissed off? Will they stand for this?
Now, tomorrow's scheduled episode, Signs From Heaven, which promised to ridicule messages some religious people think they are getting from such things as the Virgin Mary's "image" on a grilled cheese sandwich is nowhere to be found on the schedule. It is being replaced by a rerun of Conspiracy Theories.
Now I realize tomorrow is the Fourth of July and maybe Showtime thought it was better to not air an original episode on the holiday when people are going to be out watching fireworks. But they are not pushing all episodes back a week but holding to next week's show being Ghostbusters and there is no word on if or when Signs From Above will now be shown.
Some people on the Showtime P&T Bullshit! message boards are screaming "censorship." Now I don't see it as such since Showtime is a private company and I think they have the right to schedule anything they want as long as it doesn't violate a contract into which they have entered.
But the questions remains, is Showtime knuckling under to pressure? Are P&T being reined in? Are P&T pissed off? Will they stand for this?
#4
Thread Starter
DVD Talk Hero
Here's a reaction to the episode Holier Than Thou by media "watchdog" Brent Bozell:
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/b...20050603.shtml
What stands out to me is what Bozell didn't say. There is not one word of refutation of the allegations in the program. I guess he thought that glaring ommission would go unnoticed if he just bashed P&T for their language and "ugliness." For the audience for which he is writing that is probably true.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/b...20050603.shtml
Penn and Teller trash Mother Teresa
Brent Bozell
June 3, 2005
A year ago, I attended the Viacom shareholders meeting in New York. When an investor questioned the propriety of this media behemoth launching a gay cable television network, Chairman Sumner Redstone virtually leapt at the opportunity to defend Viacom's commitment to tolerance and diversity.
But not for Catholics. Viacom has no problem whatever insulting Catholics.
The Catholic League's William Donohue is America's leading watchdog of all things anti-Catholic in the media and the culture. In 12 years at the helm he's seen a lot of bashing and trashing and believes there's been nothing as outrageous as the May 23 edition of the professional magician duo Penn and Teller's aptly titled show "B.S." [spelled out] on Viacom's pay-cable channel Showtime.
While the episode titled "Holier Than Thou" ends with a few smacks at Mahatma Gandhi and the Dalai Lama, Penn Jillette mostly savaged the world's most beloved woman of the 20th century by Catholics and non-Catholics alike. The woman beatified by Pope John Paul II and surely to be declared a saint was known as Mother Teresa. On this Viacom/Showtime program she is called "Mother F---ing Teresa."
The show features notoriously vicious anti-Catholics like Christopher Hitchens and Aroup Chatterjee. Viewers are told that she intentionally let the poor suffer, providing neither beds nor bathroom facilities. "She had the f---king coin and pissed it away on nunneries," says Penn Jillette.
Donohue said it did not bother him they called him "Catholic Boy" on the show, and not even when they referred to him with the F word since he could "only see good in her." But when they mocked the Catholic Church's teaching on the meaning of suffering; when the nuns who worked with Mother Teresa in the Missionaries of Charity were referred to with the F-word and the offensive C-word for female genitalia; and when they said of the poor that "They had to suffer so that Mother [F-word] Teresa could be enlightened," he protested. "They are behaved like monsters ... It turned into hate speech."
This anti-Catholicism is no accident. The Showtime website actually boasts about the aching anti-religious bigotry behind the show. "By their own admission, Penn & Teller have been dying to do a show like this. Confirmed skeptics and pro-science atheists (they call God an 'imaginary friend'), these magicians are big fans of the art of debunking." The Showtime booster copy continues: "As our increasingly anti-intellectual, anti-science culture moves on each day to new crackpot subject matters, Penn & Teller are there to aggressively shoot down whack-jobs and fuzzy thinkers, no matter where they originate."
Isn't Showtime a piece of work? This junkyard of "edgy" programming was the final resting place of "The Reagans," the canceled CBS TV-movie making up vile charges against a man on his deathbed. It has two regular dramatic series celebrating the gay lifestyle, "Queer as Folk" for the men, and "The L Word" for the women. It recently began airing the original movie "Our Fathers," a movie on the Boston pedophile-priest scandals, which even the Washington Post called "Showtime's Unholy Mess." Four years ago at this time, Showtime was airing the original film "Sister Mary Explains It All," starring Diane Keaton as a vicious nun who ruined the lives of schoolchildren.
Now it has the two smart-aleck magicians reviling, with F bombs, the holiest women walking the face of the Earth while attacking the entire concept of holiness as a racket for "whack jobs and fuzzy thinkers."
The Catholic League protested outside this year's shareholders meeting of Viacom in New York, but tight-lipped Showtime could only remark on this inflammatory show by patting itself on the back as a haven for free speech. They claim they're "in the unique position to give artists the creative freedom to express their views," unlike other broadcast and cable networks who avoid "controversial subject matter." Sadly, and predictably, the TV writers who've happened upon the Penn and Teller show haven't exactly criticized their shtick. Associated Press reporter Frazier Moore praised the duo as "sassy secularists in a priesthood of knaves."
Didn't anyone involved in the making of this trash -- the writers, director, producers and the like -- see the wretched ugliness of the product? What of the Showtime front office -- the programming executives, the public relations/marketing staff? In fact, they all saw it and approved it. What of the Viacom leadership, the board of directors? One presumes they didn't see it, so busy are they giving speeches about corporate commitments to diversity and tolerance.
Brent Bozell
June 3, 2005
A year ago, I attended the Viacom shareholders meeting in New York. When an investor questioned the propriety of this media behemoth launching a gay cable television network, Chairman Sumner Redstone virtually leapt at the opportunity to defend Viacom's commitment to tolerance and diversity.
But not for Catholics. Viacom has no problem whatever insulting Catholics.
The Catholic League's William Donohue is America's leading watchdog of all things anti-Catholic in the media and the culture. In 12 years at the helm he's seen a lot of bashing and trashing and believes there's been nothing as outrageous as the May 23 edition of the professional magician duo Penn and Teller's aptly titled show "B.S." [spelled out] on Viacom's pay-cable channel Showtime.
While the episode titled "Holier Than Thou" ends with a few smacks at Mahatma Gandhi and the Dalai Lama, Penn Jillette mostly savaged the world's most beloved woman of the 20th century by Catholics and non-Catholics alike. The woman beatified by Pope John Paul II and surely to be declared a saint was known as Mother Teresa. On this Viacom/Showtime program she is called "Mother F---ing Teresa."
The show features notoriously vicious anti-Catholics like Christopher Hitchens and Aroup Chatterjee. Viewers are told that she intentionally let the poor suffer, providing neither beds nor bathroom facilities. "She had the f---king coin and pissed it away on nunneries," says Penn Jillette.
Donohue said it did not bother him they called him "Catholic Boy" on the show, and not even when they referred to him with the F word since he could "only see good in her." But when they mocked the Catholic Church's teaching on the meaning of suffering; when the nuns who worked with Mother Teresa in the Missionaries of Charity were referred to with the F-word and the offensive C-word for female genitalia; and when they said of the poor that "They had to suffer so that Mother [F-word] Teresa could be enlightened," he protested. "They are behaved like monsters ... It turned into hate speech."
This anti-Catholicism is no accident. The Showtime website actually boasts about the aching anti-religious bigotry behind the show. "By their own admission, Penn & Teller have been dying to do a show like this. Confirmed skeptics and pro-science atheists (they call God an 'imaginary friend'), these magicians are big fans of the art of debunking." The Showtime booster copy continues: "As our increasingly anti-intellectual, anti-science culture moves on each day to new crackpot subject matters, Penn & Teller are there to aggressively shoot down whack-jobs and fuzzy thinkers, no matter where they originate."
Isn't Showtime a piece of work? This junkyard of "edgy" programming was the final resting place of "The Reagans," the canceled CBS TV-movie making up vile charges against a man on his deathbed. It has two regular dramatic series celebrating the gay lifestyle, "Queer as Folk" for the men, and "The L Word" for the women. It recently began airing the original movie "Our Fathers," a movie on the Boston pedophile-priest scandals, which even the Washington Post called "Showtime's Unholy Mess." Four years ago at this time, Showtime was airing the original film "Sister Mary Explains It All," starring Diane Keaton as a vicious nun who ruined the lives of schoolchildren.
Now it has the two smart-aleck magicians reviling, with F bombs, the holiest women walking the face of the Earth while attacking the entire concept of holiness as a racket for "whack jobs and fuzzy thinkers."
The Catholic League protested outside this year's shareholders meeting of Viacom in New York, but tight-lipped Showtime could only remark on this inflammatory show by patting itself on the back as a haven for free speech. They claim they're "in the unique position to give artists the creative freedom to express their views," unlike other broadcast and cable networks who avoid "controversial subject matter." Sadly, and predictably, the TV writers who've happened upon the Penn and Teller show haven't exactly criticized their shtick. Associated Press reporter Frazier Moore praised the duo as "sassy secularists in a priesthood of knaves."
Didn't anyone involved in the making of this trash -- the writers, director, producers and the like -- see the wretched ugliness of the product? What of the Showtime front office -- the programming executives, the public relations/marketing staff? In fact, they all saw it and approved it. What of the Viacom leadership, the board of directors? One presumes they didn't see it, so busy are they giving speeches about corporate commitments to diversity and tolerance.
#7
DVD Talk God
I guess I don't buy that Showtime would cave into any pressure from religious groups. Face it, they have shown everything in the world that would irritate relgious groups, and keep showing them. I also tend to think that Catholics don't have near the power that most people seem to think they do.
Part of me would like to think that Showtime might have finally told P&T, "You don't like religion......WE GET IT!!!!....Could you do something else?" and that is why they take the time to shoot bibles, etc. in episodes that have nothing to do with religion. But even though part of me would like to believe that, I don't. As fun loving, etc. as I am about their show and their views on religion, I still tend to think... WE GET IT!!!! Care to do something new and entertaining, or do you just need to burn a copy of the 10 commandments during the show about Dog Food for the hell of it?
If Showtime were to actually cave on this, the Catholics will have them caving on The L Word, Family Business, and Queer as Folk pretty soon. It makes no sense for them to censor one "offensive" show in the middle of hundreds of "offensive" shows, that the Catholic Watchdogs don't watch on a regular basis anyway.
But I am curious about the reasons.
Part of me would like to think that Showtime might have finally told P&T, "You don't like religion......WE GET IT!!!!....Could you do something else?" and that is why they take the time to shoot bibles, etc. in episodes that have nothing to do with religion. But even though part of me would like to believe that, I don't. As fun loving, etc. as I am about their show and their views on religion, I still tend to think... WE GET IT!!!! Care to do something new and entertaining, or do you just need to burn a copy of the 10 commandments during the show about Dog Food for the hell of it?
If Showtime were to actually cave on this, the Catholics will have them caving on The L Word, Family Business, and Queer as Folk pretty soon. It makes no sense for them to censor one "offensive" show in the middle of hundreds of "offensive" shows, that the Catholic Watchdogs don't watch on a regular basis anyway.
But I am curious about the reasons.
#8
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally Posted by kvrdave
It makes no sense for them to censor one "offensive" show in the middle of hundreds of "offensive" shows, that the Catholic Watchdogs don't watch on a regular basis anyway.
#9
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From: Directionally Challenged (for DirecTV)
Originally Posted by kvrdave
If Showtime were to actually cave on this, the Catholics will have them caving on The L Word, Family Business, and Queer as Folk pretty soon. It makes no sense for them to censor one "offensive" show in the middle of hundreds of "offensive" shows, that the Catholic Watchdogs don't watch on a regular basis anyway.
But I am curious about the reasons.
Maybe, but I do see a difference btwn a show that directly goes after Catholics and religion versus shows that are inconsistent with a moral life acc'd to Catholics.
Meanwhile, Brent Bozell continues to show how much of a dick he is.
#10
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I could be wrong but i think huge assumptions are being made here. Perhaps there's another simple non censorship reason for the schedule changes.
#11
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DVD Talk Hero
Originally Posted by Giantrobo
I could be wrong but i think huge assumptions are being made here. Perhaps there's another simple non censorship reason for the schedule changes.
But I can think of no other explanation for cable companies all over the country removing Holier Than Thou (but no other episodes) from Video on Demand availability. As I said above, I do not consider this censorship as privately owned cable companies have a right to do this. But what, other than pressure from religious groups, is any reasonable explanation?
I'm also pretty sure that, except for the rerun that ran an hour after the initial showing, Showtime pulled all other previously scheduled reruns of the episode. The normal rerun cycle Showtime has for a P&T show is: an hour after, a day after, 4 days after and 11 days after. As I said, I'm almost sure only the first of those was shown. This has not happened with any other episode. Again, what is a reasonable explanation?
As far as the Signs From Heaven episode originally scheduled for tonight, I offered the holiday as an explanation for pulling it at this time (although one wonders why Showtime scheduled an original P&T program for the 7/4 in the first place). That may not be sinister at all. As far as I know, Showtime has not announced a new air date.
#12
Waaaah. Everyone's out to get the Catholics...
Perhaps it has to do with the fact that they are the most obvious target of the BULLSHIT known as organized religion.
Bozell: "they call God an 'imaginary friend" - That's right jackass. Millions of us don't go for your bullshit and imposing your will on networks will never endear your cause to us. TURN OFF YOUR TV and read your damn bible and take your outrage with you. Better yet, don't subscribe to fucking Showtime.
Perhaps it has to do with the fact that they are the most obvious target of the BULLSHIT known as organized religion.
Bozell: "they call God an 'imaginary friend" - That's right jackass. Millions of us don't go for your bullshit and imposing your will on networks will never endear your cause to us. TURN OFF YOUR TV and read your damn bible and take your outrage with you. Better yet, don't subscribe to fucking Showtime.
#15
Thread Starter
DVD Talk Hero
Originally Posted by dolphinboy
Wow, I got threatened with suspension and didn't manage to call anyone a jack*ss or drop an F-bomb.
I guess you gotta know somebody around here.
I guess you gotta know somebody around here.
Brent Bozell is a jackass.
Brent Bozell is a jackass.
Brent Bozell is a jackass.
Brent Bozell is a jackass.
Brent Bozell is a jackass.
Brent Bozell is a fucking jackass.
Like that.
You don't have to know somebody, you just have to know the rules.
#16
Moderator
Originally Posted by dolphinboy
Wow, I got threatened with suspension and didn't manage to call anyone a jack*ss or drop an F-bomb.
I guess you gotta know somebody around here.
I guess you gotta know somebody around here.
Usually when you join an internet forum such as this one, it's a good idea to familiarize yourself with the rules if you want to stick around.
#17
DVD Talk God
Originally Posted by CRM114
Waaaah. Everyone's out to get the Catholics...
Perhaps it has to do with the fact that they are the most obvious target of the BULLSHIT known as organized religion.
Bozell: "they call God an 'imaginary friend" - That's right jackass. Millions of us don't go for your bullshit and imposing your will on networks will never endear your cause to us. TURN OFF YOUR TV and read your damn bible and take your outrage with you. Better yet, don't subscribe to fucking Showtime.
Perhaps it has to do with the fact that they are the most obvious target of the BULLSHIT known as organized religion.
Bozell: "they call God an 'imaginary friend" - That's right jackass. Millions of us don't go for your bullshit and imposing your will on networks will never endear your cause to us. TURN OFF YOUR TV and read your damn bible and take your outrage with you. Better yet, don't subscribe to fucking Showtime.
j/kIt is impressive if the Catholics actually have this kind of power. If they do, I have got to believe that it is based on historical power rather than current. I think if anyone were to call their bluff, they would find out that there is really no hell to pay (so to speak). I honestly can't imagine that Catholics would unite against Showtime, or that it would have any real effect.
Also, I think most everyone know that I love P&T. It is great entertainment and it is also great for learning some things you might not have known (at least some episodes). At the same time, they can't possibly be ignorant enough to believe they can take shots at the icons of an organization with millions of members and not draw some ire. I don't agree with it, and I still think Showtime is wussing out if they are giving into it, but they have to know that they aren't having a civil debate, they are calling what they believe to be bullshit bullshit. Personally, that is what makes it entertaining to me, and I hope they continue.
But I can imagine that if they had a show about gay marriage being bullshit (just an example, as they obviously have no problem with it), they have to be smart enough to know that they are beating on a hornet's nest.
#18
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From: Gateway Cities/Harbor Region
Originally Posted by movielib
If you read my original post carefully you'd see that I made no assumptions and offered some alternate possible explanations for at least some of what has happened.
#19
Originally Posted by movielib
You can say whatever you want about nonmembers.
Brent Bozell is a jackass.
Brent Bozell is a jackass.
Brent Bozell is a jackass.
Brent Bozell is a jackass.
Brent Bozell is a jackass.
Brent Bozell is a fucking jackass.
Like that.
You don't have to know somebody, you just have to know the rules.
Brent Bozell is a jackass.
Brent Bozell is a jackass.
Brent Bozell is a jackass.
Brent Bozell is a jackass.
Brent Bozell is a jackass.
Brent Bozell is a fucking jackass.
Like that.
You don't have to know somebody, you just have to know the rules.
#20
Moderator
Originally Posted by kvrdave
Also, I think most everyone know that I love P&T. It is great entertainment and it is also great for learning some things you might not have known (at least some episodes). At the same time, they can't possibly be ignorant enough to believe they can take shots at the icons of an organization with millions of members and not draw some ire.
I wouldn't be surprised if they were hoping to create big controversy, thus increasing the viewership from people tuning in to see what the hoopla was about. IIRC, "Desperate Housewives" got a boost in the ratings after that parent's group was complaining about it.
#22
Bill Maher calls out organized religion every week. He says people who believe in organized religion have a "mental disorder." No one ever seems to care and I'm sure his show is viewed by many many more people. He kills religion every chance he gets. Religious folks need to get over the fact that there are many of us that think they are full of shit. And all the sanctimonious crap doesn't help their cause. Keep your religion private.
#24
Originally Posted by Groucho
People watch Maher's show? I tried, but it was a huge borefest, even more so than the recently cancelled Dennis Miller show.
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From: Capitol of the Empire! Center of all Commerce and Culture! Crossroads of Civilization! NEW ROME!!!...aka New York City
Originally Posted by CRM114
Apparently, since it hasn't been cancelled.



