Go Back  DVD Talk Forum > Entertainment Discussions > Music Talk
Reload this Page >

Sinead O'Connor dead at 56

Music Talk Discuss music in all its forms: CD, MP3, DVD-A, SACD and of course live

Sinead O'Connor dead at 56

Old 07-27-23, 01:45 AM
  #26  
DVD Talk Reviewer/Moderator
 
Kurt D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Formerly known as L. Ron zyzzle - On a cloud of Judgement
Posts: 14,210
Received 1,745 Likes on 1,184 Posts
Re: Sinead O'Connor dead at 56

Originally Posted by Count Dooku
So deceiving Lorne Michaels and choosing an inappropriate venue to air the grievance is more egregious than the sexual assault of thousands of children?

I thought there was nothing more important when dealing with this subject than people being allowed to speak their truth, and then applauding them for their bravery.

Maybe I was living in another country for the last six years and forgot.
FWIW I think Decker is explaining why Michaels' decision as an entertainment executive was legitimate, regardless of whether O'Connors actions were righteous or not. (They definitely were, and she just unfortunately made her statement during time when a post-Reagan reactionary stance could still be very powerful.)
Old 07-27-23, 01:48 AM
  #27  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 43,205
Received 34 Likes on 18 Posts
Re: Sinead O'Connor dead at 56

Black Boys on Mopeds is as timely as when it was released a third of a century ago (unfortunately). And still (fortunately) as haunting and beautiful.


What a talented person she was.
The following 2 users liked this post by JasonF:
BDB (07-27-23), Kurt D (07-27-23)
Old 07-27-23, 01:50 AM
  #28  
BDB
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Palm Springs and Los Angeles
Posts: 23,082
Received 102 Likes on 91 Posts
Re: Sinead O'Connor dead at 56

https://www.morrisseycentral.com/mes...-couldn-t-last


he’s correct but also very wrong. I think he wants to be there where she is was. But that’s not it at all
Old 07-27-23, 12:45 PM
  #29  
DVD Talk Godfather & 2020 TOTY Winner
 
Decker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Vegas, Baby!
Posts: 74,306
Received 5,866 Likes on 4,003 Posts
Re: Sinead O'Connor dead at 56

Originally Posted by Count Dooku
So deceiving Lorne Michaels and choosing an inappropriate venue to air the grievance is more egregious than the sexual assault of thousands of children?

I thought there was nothing more important when dealing with this subject than people being allowed to speak their truth, and then applauding them for their bravery.

Maybe I was living in another country for the last six years and forgot.
You may not be aware of this, but it is possible to have a completely admirable opinion and still express it at an inappropriate time. Like if your drunk uncle grabs the microphone during your Best Man's toast and starts screaming that we need to stop human trafficking. That might be absolutely the right sentiment, but clearly not the right time to express it.
I remember the Oscars had a run where presenters like Richard Gere went off-script on Political topics like Tibet. Nothing wrong with his opinion, but that was neither the time or the place for it. The Oscars cracked down : A winner can make whatever statement he wants, as that's his time in the spotlight to talk. A presenter can't. I thought that was a wise policy.

Also she said "Fight the real enemy" while tearing up a picture of the Pope. I didn't know for sure what she even meant, as I am sure many others were confused as well.

In addition, if she is allowed to make a surprise statement like that on SNL, so should Jason Aldean at the end of his set, and so can everyone else. It becomes a political statement free-for-all on a comedy variety show, and that's not what Lorne wants and it's not what the public wants.

If she did something like that in her own show (like the Dixie Chicks and Linda Ronstadt did, with bad outcomes for their careers), I'm fine with it. It's her show, she can say what she likes. And as I mentioned, she had a huge platform at the time and could have gotten her message out in the way that U2 and Springsteen and Neil Young did over and over again.

The SNL move was wrong, even though I agree that what the Church did was far worse. Both can be true at the same time.
Old 07-27-23, 01:00 PM
  #30  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,063
Received 7 Likes on 6 Posts
Re: Sinead O'Connor dead at 56

Originally Posted by Decker
In any case, Lorne was furious, and he had the right to be. You donít pull shit like that on a live telecast as the musical guest on a sketch comedy show. If she wanted to call out the Catholic Church for sexual abuse, MTV existed back then and certainly could have served as an appropriate venue for her to do so.
O'Connor took a huge artistic risk with what she did that night on Saturday Night Live, back when the show was far more popular. She should have made such a statement on MTV back when MTV was far more relevant, and while it would have been controversial would probably been a lot more accepted by MTV's intended audience. In my personal opinion, you begin to wonder if in recent years she privately regretted the decision, because otherwise, she could have been one of the truly great musical stars of at least the 1990's.
Old 07-27-23, 01:01 PM
  #31  
DVD Talk Legend
 
LurkerDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The People's Republic of Boulder
Posts: 24,625
Received 545 Likes on 393 Posts
Re: Sinead O'Connor dead at 56

Elvis Costello pulled a sudden move on SNL and was "banned" for a time, but he apparently was forgiven and invited back. Why not Sinead?
Old 07-27-23, 01:14 PM
  #32  
DVD Talk Godfather & 2020 TOTY Winner
 
Decker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Vegas, Baby!
Posts: 74,306
Received 5,866 Likes on 4,003 Posts
Re: Sinead O'Connor dead at 56

Originally Posted by LurkerDan
Elvis Costello pulled a sudden move on SNL and was "banned" for a time, but he apparently was forgiven and invited back. Why not Sinead?
He played "Radio Radio" instead of "Less Than Zero". Lorne was pissed, but it's not close to the same thing as pissing off millions of Catholics on live TV. I'm sure you know that.
The following users liked this post:
RayChuang (07-27-23)
Old 07-27-23, 02:08 PM
  #33  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 43,205
Received 34 Likes on 18 Posts
Re: Sinead O'Connor dead at 56

Originally Posted by RayChuang
In my personal opinion, you begin to wonder if in recent years she privately regretted the decision, because otherwise, she could have been one of the truly great musical stars of at least the 1990's.

She most certainly did not:

Everyone wants a pop star, see? But I am a protest singer. I just had stuff to get off my chest. I had no desire for fame. In fact, thatís why I chose the first song. ĎSuccessí was making a failure of my life. Because everyone was already calling me crazy for not acting like a pop star. For not worshipping fame. And I understand Iíve torn up the dreams of those around me.

But those arenít my dreams. No-one ever asked me what my dreams were; they just got mad at me for not being who they wanted me to be. My own dream is only to keep the contract I made with God before I ever made one with the music business. And thatís a better fight than murder. I gotta get to the other side of life.
The following users liked this post:
BDB (07-27-23)
Old 07-27-23, 03:45 PM
  #34  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,063
Received 7 Likes on 6 Posts
Re: Sinead O'Connor dead at 56

Originally Posted by JasonF
She most certainly did not:
But how long ago did she make that statement? Was it said in the last 4-5 years? I believe she admitted no regrets just after 2000, but I haven't heard much recently.
Old 07-27-23, 04:11 PM
  #35  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Rival11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 7,219
Received 178 Likes on 119 Posts
Re: Sinead O'Connor dead at 56

Honestly, this news definitely upsets me a little. Always though she was very talented.
Old 07-27-23, 04:42 PM
  #36  
DVD Talk Godfather & 2020 TOTY Winner
 
Decker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Vegas, Baby!
Posts: 74,306
Received 5,866 Likes on 4,003 Posts
Re: Sinead O'Connor dead at 56

Originally Posted by Count Dooku
So deceiving Lorne Michaels and choosing an inappropriate venue to air the grievance is more egregious than the sexual assault of thousands of children?
And where exactly did I say that what she did was "more egregious than sexually assaulting thousands of children"? I just said it was inappropriate at that time, in that setting, and that she had plenty of other opportunities and setting in which she could "speak her truth". Way to break out the Straw Man.
Old 07-27-23, 04:55 PM
  #37  
Political Exile
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,322
Received 465 Likes on 309 Posts
Re: Sinead O'Connor dead at 56

Originally Posted by Decker
And where exactly did I say that what she did was "more egregious than sexually assaulting thousands of children"? I just said it was inappropriate at that time, in that setting, and that she had plenty of other opportunities and setting in which she could "speak her truth". Way to break out the Straw Man.
you replied to his post already, and more eloquently at that
Old 07-27-23, 05:20 PM
  #38  
DVD Talk Legend
 
LurkerDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The People's Republic of Boulder
Posts: 24,625
Received 545 Likes on 393 Posts
Re: Sinead O'Connor dead at 56

Originally Posted by Decker
He played "Radio Radio" instead of "Less Than Zero". Lorne was pissed, but it's not close to the same thing as pissing off millions of Catholics on live TV. I'm sure you know that.
I do know that, but "pissing off millions of catholics on live TV" says nothing about how pissed off Lorne was. Elvis directly went against something he was expected to do, she did something unexpected. I doubt Lorne's grievance was specifically related to Catholicism, it was more likely related to things like ratings, his authority, trying to keep some semblance of order on a live TV show, etc. My only point was that Lorne apparently could get over a performer going off-script.
Old 07-27-23, 08:16 PM
  #39  
DVD Talk Legend
 
JeffTheAlpaca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: CA
Posts: 22,922
Received 669 Likes on 552 Posts
Re: Sinead O'Connor dead at 56

Peter Gabriel shared his thoughts

"Sinťad was an extraordinary talent. She could move us with a candour and a passion with which so many people connected. The path she chose was always difficult and uncompromising but at every turn she would show her spirit and her courage. I feel lucky to have had the chance to work with her. "- PG
https://www.brooklynvegan.com/read-s...le-monae-more/
Old 07-27-23, 09:55 PM
  #40  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Austin, TX, USA
Posts: 12,784
Received 1,045 Likes on 749 Posts
Re: Sinead O'Connor dead at 56

Originally Posted by Decker
You may not be aware of this, but it is possible to have a completely admirable opinion and still express it at an inappropriate time. Like if your drunk uncle grabs the microphone during your Best Man's toast and starts screaming that we need to stop human trafficking. That might be absolutely the right sentiment, but clearly not the right time to express it.
I remember the Oscars had a run where presenters like Richard Gere went off-script on Political topics like Tibet. Nothing wrong with his opinion, but that was neither the time or the place for it. The Oscars cracked down : A winner can make whatever statement he wants, as that's his time in the spotlight to talk. A presenter can't. I thought that was a wise policy.

Also she said "Fight the real enemy" while tearing up a picture of the Pope. I didn't know for sure what she even meant, as I am sure many others were confused as well.

In addition, if she is allowed to make a surprise statement like that on SNL, so should Jason Aldean at the end of his set, and so can everyone else. It becomes a political statement free-for-all on a comedy variety show, and that's not what Lorne wants and it's not what the public wants.

If she did something like that in her own show (like the Dixie Chicks and Linda Ronstadt did, with bad outcomes for their careers), I'm fine with it. It's her show, she can say what she likes. And as I mentioned, she had a huge platform at the time and could have gotten her message out in the way that U2 and Springsteen and Neil Young did over and over again.

The SNL move was wrong, even though I agree that what the Church did was far worse. Both can be true at the same time.
SNL had her on to perform Bob Marley's "War." The song is a political statement. The only reason for her to sing a 16 year old song like that is to make a political statement, which SNL completely endorsed.

So, you cannot say that performance in that place at that time was inappropriate for her to make a political statement. She was invited there to make a political statement. She just chose to make more of statement than she let on.

I do not acknowledge the validity of any slippery slope arguments. Saying that she was right does not mean that anyone else who tries something similar about some other issue is also right because each artist and issue is it's own island to be judged individually.

If any artist wants to try to use the SNL stage to make a surprise political statement that Lorne doesn't like, they can cut the sound or go to black at the flip of a switch. Maybe the chance that someone would do something spontaneous would make the show more interesting. And any argument that "you let Artist X say this, but you stopped Artist Y from saying that" is unfair is not something anyone should care about. Fairness is irrelevant. For almost 50 years, SNL has been making approved political statements that push a political agenda. It's all just a matter of who approves.

I'm certain Lorne Michaels had his reasons for his reaction in 1992. We all have done things in the past that we had reasons for doing that later on we regret and apologize for. As I posted, I think Michaels should at some point regretted his reaction, just like everyone of those people who booed her at the Bob Dylan tribute should have realized later on that they did something once that was absolutely fucking moronic and wrong.

She was right. People didn't realize it and didn't want to hear it, but she was right. Would have been nice if an esteemed figure like Lorne would have been willing to admit it.
The following users liked this post:
Nesbit (07-27-23)
Old 07-28-23, 04:34 AM
  #41  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
The Antipodean's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 6,634
Received 163 Likes on 116 Posts
Re: Sinead O'Connor dead at 56

Love how even a thread about someone dying has to devolve into an argument here these days.

RIP, Sinead.
Old 07-28-23, 10:02 AM
  #42  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,063
Received 7 Likes on 6 Posts
Re: Sinead O'Connor dead at 56

Originally Posted by The Antipodean
Love how even a thread about someone dying has to devolve into an argument here these days.

RIP, Sinead.
It's not hard to swerve into a political argument given how extremely controversial what O'Connor did at the time.

But yet, her popularity essentially ended with that statement. Her first two albums were major artistic and sales successes and O'Connor had just released a third album at the time. It became a case of what could have been.
Old 07-28-23, 10:13 AM
  #43  
Political Exile
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,322
Received 465 Likes on 309 Posts
Re: Sinead O'Connor dead at 56

Originally Posted by RayChuang
It's not hard to swerve into a political argument given how extremely controversial what O'Connor did at the time.
Her politics line up with those vocal in this forum, so this is hardly a political argument, just some nuance of the time. Wait until Ted Nugent dies and you'll see the real gross behavior come out
Old 07-28-23, 01:37 PM
  #44  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 43,205
Received 34 Likes on 18 Posts
Re: Sinead O'Connor dead at 56

Originally Posted by RayChuang
But how long ago did she make that statement? Was it said in the last 4-5 years? I believe she admitted no regrets just after 2000, but I haven't heard much recently.
Itís from her 2021 memoir. She was consistent in her public statements her whole life that she had no regrets at all about what she did and the effect of her actions on her career.
Old 07-28-23, 02:16 PM
  #45  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 12,767
Received 912 Likes on 697 Posts
Re: Sinead O'Connor dead at 56

Originally Posted by LurkerDan
I do know that, but "pissing off millions of catholics on live TV" says nothing about how pissed off Lorne was. Elvis directly went against something he was expected to do, she did something unexpected. I doubt Lorne's grievance was specifically related to Catholicism, it was more likely related to things like ratings, his authority, trying to keep some semblance of order on a live TV show, etc. My only point was that Lorne apparently could get over a performer going off-script.
Quick correction here, it was more than just Elvis "going off script". Radio Radio is a song that rails heavily against corporate radio stations, and at the time WNBC was the biggest radio giant in the area. Lorne's stance only softened as radio became less influential in the music world (Elvis' song was pre-MTV). Elvis singing that song then would be like the Dead Kennedys going on 120 Minutes and playing MTV Get Off the Air.

Since we're talking Sinead and SNL, anyone now feel a little guilty about laughing at Jan Hooks' turns at portraying her on the show? Or Phil Hartman's "next topic! This bald chick! What's with her head? Uncle Fester, we'll start with you". And then how sad it is that all 4 people (Sinatra, O'Connor, Hartman, and Hooks) are no longer with us. Such great musical and comedic talent.
Old 07-30-23, 05:40 PM
  #46  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Austin, TX, USA
Posts: 12,784
Received 1,045 Likes on 749 Posts
Re: Sinead O'Connor dead at 56

Originally Posted by PerryD
Her politics line up with those vocal in this forum, so this is hardly a political argument, just some nuance of the time. Wait until Ted Nugent dies and you'll see the real gross behavior come out
My politics are diametrically opposed to Nugent's, but I won't have a comment to make when he dies. Except for a few great songs that he recorded 50 years ago, he is irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Paff
Since we're talking Sinead and SNL, anyone now feel a little guilty about laughing at Jan Hooks' turns at portraying her on the show? Or Phil Hartman's "next topic! This bald chick! What's with her head? Uncle Fester, we'll start with you". And then how sad it is that all 4 people (Sinatra, O'Connor, Hartman, and Hooks) are no longer with us. Such great musical and comedic talent.
Nope, not at all. Just reading the words written out, I remember how hilarious that sketch was. She was a public figure and SNL mocks public figures. Fair game all around.
The following users liked this post:
tommyp007 (07-30-23)
Old 07-30-23, 11:41 PM
  #47  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Austin, TX, USA
Posts: 12,784
Received 1,045 Likes on 749 Posts
Re: Sinead O'Connor dead at 56



performance is more like rough karaoke but it's the thought that counts
Old 07-31-23, 10:37 AM
  #48  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: May 2022
Location: Boston area
Posts: 1,517
Received 147 Likes on 112 Posts
Re: Sinead O'Connor dead at 56

Originally Posted by PerryD
Her politics line up with those vocal in this forum, so this is hardly a political argument, just some nuance of the time. Wait until Ted Nugent dies and you'll see the real gross behavior come out
There are many public figures with viewpoints I disagree with. But it doesn't mean I will celebrate when (s)he passes away.
Old 07-31-23, 12:28 PM
  #49  
DVD Talk Legend
 
milo bloom's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Chicago suburbs
Posts: 18,165
Received 1,350 Likes on 997 Posts
Re: Sinead O'Connor dead at 56

Originally Posted by Count Dooku
My politics are diametrically opposed to Nugent's, but I won't have a comment to make when he dies. Except for a few great songs that he recorded 50 years ago, he is irrelevant.



Nope, not at all. Just reading the words written out, I remember how hilarious that sketch was. She was a public figure and SNL mocks public figures. Fair game all around.
I have come to take issue with how SNL goes after public figures because too often it feels like they're either punching down or at least punching parallel instead of punching up and going after public figures that truly have power and are being problematic.
But Sinead was clearly not that, and I wonder if they had done a moment's research into what she was talking about, if SNL could have started going after the Catholic church sooner and maybe turned the tide of public opinion a little sooner. They have a large platform, and when they use it for good, I truly think they can make a difference.
Old 07-31-23, 02:27 PM
  #50  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,494
Received 106 Likes on 65 Posts
Re: Sinead O'Connor dead at 56

Originally Posted by Decker
The SNL move was wrong, even though I agree that what the Church did was far worse. Both can be true at the same time.
Negative. She knew what she was doing, she knew the consequences (although probably not how extreme they would get) and choose to do it on a program that had a diverse audience. Why would I make a political statement at an event attended by people who probably hold the same opinion as myself. Goofy.

And you're analogy is dumb.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.