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Why didn't DTS/Surround Sound music take off ?

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Why didn't DTS/Surround Sound music take off ?

Old 12-16-14, 08:32 AM
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Re: Why didn't DTS/Surround Sound music take off ?

Amazon currently has the Denon DBT-1713UD for $349 (normally $499). It plays BD, DVDA, and SACD. Not many units on the market that cover all three any more.

Originally Posted by cungar
Some great ones there. You should check out the Quadrophenia Blu Ray, Close to the Edge DVD-A and Wish You Were Here SACD if you like those albums
I have Close the Edge blu-ray and Wish You Were Here. I wasn't aware of Quadrophenia.
Old 12-17-14, 09:34 PM
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Re: Why didn't DTS/Surround Sound music take off ?

I recently got into hi-res mutlichannel music about a year ago. Picked up a Pioneer DVD/SACD/DVD-A player on e bay real cheap. I dont bother with any of the stereo discs, but I've collected any multi-channel albums available from artists/bands that I like and have quite a few now. Wings 'Band on the Run' DTS disc is excellent. All the Pink Floyds & Billy Joel SACD's are great as well. I also extracted the DTS audio track from the Queen Greatest Video Hits discs and compiled a DVD-A 5.1 disc from it which sounds great.
The answer to your question, IMO, is that the majority of people dont care about hi-res or multichannel music or even sound quality for that matter. I doubt most people would even know what these formats are which is a shame because they dont know what theyre missing.

Originally Posted by Jay G.
Wait, that math doesn't make sense. A DTS-CD stores data at the same bitrate as an audio CD (1,411 kbit/s), so a single-layer DVD should only hold about 6.7 completely full CDs. Even if the average album length is less than 80 minutes you're still only likely to fit a dozen or so on one 4.7GB DVDR:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.1_Music_Disc
It makes sense. DTS Wav files are only between 20 and 30MB each. When they are authored as CD they become redbook standard or whatever you want to call it. Same thing as making a CD from MP3 files. The DTS audio track from a feature length film is only around 300MB.
Old 12-17-14, 10:30 PM
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Re: Why didn't DTS/Surround Sound music take off ?

Originally Posted by JZ1276
It makes sense. DTS Wav files are only between 20 and 30MB each. When they are authored as CD they become redbook standard or whatever you want to call it. Same thing as making a CD from MP3 files. The DTS audio track from a feature length film is only around 300MB.
DTS 5.1 surround on DVD has bitrates of 754.5 and 1509.75 kbit/s:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD-Video#Audio_data

Most DVDs with DTS went "half" bitrate at 754.5 kbit/s, but that's still about 664MB for a 120 minute film.

Looking up DTS music CD downloads on the web, they seem to average around 500MB-700MB.

You're talking about a surround-sound format, so it needs a higher bitrate than a stereo MP3 simply by virtue of having more tracks. Also, you want it to be high quality, as high as you can afford, so it makes sense to push the bitrate to near the max. Add in that they need to conform to red book specs, so they were stuck with a fixed 1,411 kbit/s bitrate anyway, it makes sense that a DTS music CD would use as much of that bitrate as possible.

Here's a legit free DTS-Wav download. It's a 8 /12 minute song, 85.3MB in size.
http://www.thebenchmusic.com/nosound/

That works to a 1411 kb/s bitrate, the same as for a regular audio CD, about 10MB a minute. At that bitrate, you'd only be able to fit about 481 minutes of music, or about 8 hours, on a single layer DVD. So still, about a dozen 40 minute albums.
Old 12-18-14, 12:00 AM
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Re: Why didn't DTS/Surround Sound music take off ?

Originally Posted by Jay G.
DTS 5.1 surround on DVD has bitrates of 754.5 and 1509.75 kbit/s:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD-Video#Audio_data

Most DVDs with DTS went "half" bitrate at 754.5 kbit/s, but that's still about 664MB for a 120 minute film.

Looking up DTS music CD downloads on the web, they seem to average around 500MB-700MB.

You're talking about a surround-sound format, so it needs a higher bitrate than a stereo MP3 simply by virtue of having more tracks. Also, you want it to be high quality, as high as you can afford, so it makes sense to push the bitrate to near the max. Add in that they need to conform to red book specs, so they were stuck with a fixed 1,411 kbit/s bitrate anyway, it makes sense that a DTS music CD would use as much of that bitrate as possible.

Here's a legit free DTS-Wav download. It's a 8 /12 minute song, 85.3MB in size.
http://www.thebenchmusic.com/nosound/

That works to a 1411 kb/s bitrate, the same as for a regular audio CD, about 10MB a minute. At that bitrate, you'd only be able to fit about 481 minutes of music, or about 8 hours, on a single layer DVD. So still, about a dozen 40 minute albums.
I'm familiar with all of this already. Are you disagreeing with my previous post? Most DTS music discs have a bitrate of 755. You are assuming they would use max bitrate, but they do not. This is not the only way to get DTS-WAV files. Without going into details not allowed to discuss on here, there are many concert and music video DVDs with a DTS soundtrack. There are also many SACD rips available for download via torrent websites which are converted to DTS-WAVs where the file size for an entire album can be as small as 350-400 MB.

Last edited by JZ1276; 12-18-14 at 12:55 AM.
Old 12-18-14, 08:04 AM
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Re: Why didn't DTS/Surround Sound music take off ?

Originally Posted by JZ1276
I'm familiar with all of this already. Are you disagreeing with my previous post?
I'm sorry, I somehow misread Original Desmond's post as stating that he fit hundreds of DTS-WAV albums on a DVD, not DTS-WAV tracks.

That said....
Originally Posted by JZ1276
Most DTS music discs have a bitrate of 755. You are assuming they would use max bitrate, but they do not.
DTS Music CDs definitely use the 1411kbps bitrate, since that's what they need to stay red book compatible, which the CDs are.

DTS tracks on DVD-A or DVD-V may use half bitrate 755kbps though.

There are also many SACD rips available for download via torrent websites which are converted to DTS-WAVs where the file size for an entire album can be as small as 350-400 MB.
This would be a lossy conversion though, and they may using half bitrate DTS as well. Even at 400MB, you'd still only fit about a dozen full albums on a DVD, which again, was my contention (and point of confusion).
Old 12-18-14, 04:15 PM
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Re: Why didn't DTS/Surround Sound music take off ?

Originally Posted by Jay G.
I'm sorry, I somehow misread Original Desmond's post as stating that he fit hundreds of DTS-WAV albums on a DVD, not DTS-WAV tracks.

That said....

DTS Music CDs definitely use the 1411kbps bitrate, since that's what they need to stay red book compatible, which the CDs are.

DTS tracks on DVD-A or DVD-V may use half bitrate 755kbps though.


This would be a lossy conversion though, and they may using half bitrate DTS as well. Even at 400MB, you'd still only fit about a dozen full albums on a DVD, which again, was my contention (and point of confusion).
Sorry, when I said most DTS Music discs, I was referring to DVDs (shouldve been more clear). I already pointed out that DTS CDs must have redbook CD bitrate so obviously thats what I meant. However, I believe there are some DTS music CD's out there with half bitrate that dont conform to Redbook status.

Yes, of course its a lossy conversion. My point was and is not all DTS-WAV files are full 1411kbps bitrate, which is how the orig poster is able to fit so many on one DVD. Come to think of it, the majority of full bitrate DTS files are on DTS CDs.
Old 12-20-14, 05:24 AM
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Re: Why didn't DTS/Surround Sound music take off ?

I would say the average size of all of my DTS-WAV files is 45 to 50 meg

can fit maybe 70 to 80 on a dvdr and that's songs, not albums

and checking the codec info using vlc, just about all have a bitrate of 1411 kps

I'm trying to find more bluray quality HD audio which isn't from live concerts

Out of everything i have listened to, in terms of pure sound quality and how well the channels have been used, the SPEC projects by DKA really blow me away

Last edited by Original Desmond; 01-11-15 at 03:06 AM.
Old 12-23-14, 08:19 PM
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Re: Why didn't DTS/Surround Sound music take off ?

I have a few hi-res surround sound albums, but I've gotten much more into stereo FLAC albums at 24/192 (when possible). I've got a rip of The Joshua Tree that made the whole album sound totally fresh to me, which I never thought would be possible since that album's been so played out.
Old 01-08-15, 11:14 PM
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Re: Why didn't DTS/Surround Sound music take off ?

Originally Posted by Spiderbite
Gone are the days where people just sit and listen to music.

I can remember as a kid sitting in my room just listening to an album. Just that. Not also playing a video game, or perusing the internet, or with the TV on, or reading a magazine, or looking at a comic, or talking on the phone or etc. etc.

Just sitting listening to the music. They might put you in a padded room if you do just that nowadays.
Funny, I was just telling my wife, "I need a man room. Somewhere where I can just sit back and listen to music." We live a small apartment. My wife goes to bed a few hours before me and my kids' bedroom is right off of the living room (where the entertainment center is). I guess I could use headphones, but I'd prefer to just sit back and listen to stereo.
Old 01-09-15, 09:39 AM
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Re: Why didn't DTS/Surround Sound music take off ?

Originally Posted by CRM114
Amazon currently has the Denon DBT-1713UD for $349 (normally $499). It plays BD, DVDA, and SACD. Not many units on the market that cover all three any more.



I have Close the Edge blu-ray and Wish You Were Here. I wasn't aware of Quadrophenia.
yes --- I highly recommend it.

Old 02-03-15, 10:35 PM
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Re: Why didn't DTS/Surround Sound music take off ?

I had to get this since it's nominated for a Grammy (surround sound mixed album) this year: and wow: 5.1 DTS HD MA (24/192kHz), 2.0 LPCM (24/192), 7.1 DTS HD MA (24/96) and 9.1 Auro-3D (24/96) - surprised Dolby Atmos wasn't thrown into the mix...

Old 02-04-15, 01:28 PM
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Re: Why didn't DTS/Surround Sound music take off ?

9.1? Now that's speaker overload.
Old 02-04-15, 04:45 PM
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Re: Why didn't DTS/Surround Sound music take off ?

Originally Posted by cungar
9.1? Now that's speaker overload.
four speakers "overhead" to be exact. well elevated to be exact.

Old 02-04-15, 04:56 PM
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Re: Why didn't DTS/Surround Sound music take off ?

Do you sit in a 6 ft high chair when you're listening, because I can't see how the high up speakers are going to benefit you that much.
Old 02-04-15, 11:53 PM
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Re: Why didn't DTS/Surround Sound music take off ?

Honestly, I've heard two movies in the cinema in Auro sound and both mixes really did not wow me. Dolby Atmos on the other hand.

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