I actually like "Do You Love Me" as well so 5 (not counting Beth ) out of 9 puts it as an average album for me. Also agree, maybe the weakest of the earlier albums. Especially after the Alive release.

I've allways had mixed feelings about Destroyer.
It has some great songs(Detroit Rock City,God Of Thunder,Shout It Out Loud,
Do You Love Me)and some outright embarrasing one's in Sweet Pain,Flaming Youth and Great Expectations.
This album was the turning point for the band's direction into mass marketing,
comic book- bed sheet like commercialism that would eventually be there downfall in a couple of years.
FYI-Kiss(on their Dynasty tour a few years later)opened their set suprisingly with King Of The Night Time World.

I'm surprised at the "average" reviews so far for Destroyer. I love this album and the only disappointment is that the live versions of most of these songs on Alive II are a little superior.

I love every song on this album and don't really have a weak choice. Flaming Youth is probably the weakest of the little know songs on the album but I still enjoy it. Great Expectations and especially Sweet Pain are kick ass and you can't tell me otherwise. Sure, Shout It Out Loud is a Rock And Roll All Night rip-off but it is still and enjoyable one.

I even never tire of hearing Beth. And once again...yet another fantastic album cover.

My rating: ***** out of *****

I like Destroyer but I don't think it's as strong of an album as it could be. There are the obvious classics: "God of Thunder", "Detroit Rock City", "King of the Night Time World", "Beth"; but there are also the bad tracks that I skip without question, like "Flaming Youth" and "Great Expectations". The rest of the album is good, but not great. I've always felt KISS was a band that wrote great songs, but not alwasy great entire albums. As a "best of" comp band they're gold.

I'm not crazy about Destroyer either. Yes, it's got some great songs, along with some really odd stuff that breaks up the whole flow of the album.

Of course, this might be because I never had a copy of Destroyer until probably 10 years after I started listening to KISS. All the big hits were on Double Platinum, and I've always been a bigger fan of the non-makeup KISS, as that's the band I first saw live. I imagine I would have had a different impression of Destroyer if I had been a teenager in the 70's and had bought it when it was released.

I love Destroyer. First album I ever bought with my own money, at a Rock Steady record store for the then exorbitant price of $4.97.

I wouldn't call it overrated at all. The band was trying for something different, and a bit of broadening of their horizons. Sure it didn't all work - "Great Expectations" is a bit of a mis-step - but I can deal with "Sweet Pain", and I like "Flaming Youth" (good chunky riff, and great Paul Stanley yell at the beginning). Everything else on the album is just classic to me. "King Of The Night Time World" is another of my all-time fave KISS tunes. I guess it's sort of up to the listener whether it worked or not - but obviously the band felt they may have glossed things up a little too much, as they stripped back for the next album and it was all the better for it.

Out of this 'trio' of albums, song for song I'd rate it below Rock And Roll Over, but above Love Gun.

This was always one of my favorites off of Destroyer (going back to when I first bought the thing back in 1977).

"Flaming Youth"

LIVE.........................................................................................Studio
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While I am in the camp that thinks that Destroyer is overrated, I still think it's a really good album, and it has a lot of really good songs on it. I just don't think it's the pinnacle of their career the way it's reputation would lead you to believe it is. Again, just my opinion...

(And the biggest problem with the perception that Destroyer is THE definitive KISS studio album is that... well, I'll get to that when we're discussing another album later. )

Back in this thread after a brief hiatus (got married) and two things to say:

1) Alive! -- just as great as everyone says it is... and just as "live" as any other album of the day (although I *was* a bit disappointed when I found out later how much it was produced in the studio). Nonetheless, this is one of those albums that you just listened to from opening track to closing, without break. Plus, I LOVED the album production values (the booklet as well as the "notes" from the band). Good stuff.

2) Destroyer -- Bob Ezrin challenged the band to expand their musical horizons here, and the result helped KISS maintain and expand the momentum they achieved with ALIVE! (although not at first -- the album performed respectably but somewhat disappointingly until BETH broke through as a huge single). Personally, I find the album to be good but one of the LEAST replayed KISS albums in my collection. Chalk me up as one who is mostly annoyed with the craptacular trifecta of Great Expectations, Sweet Pain, and Flaming Youth (although the latter isn't that bad, just mostly retarded). The binaural audio at the beginning of "Detroit Rock City" sounds pretty sweet with some nice headphones. Otherwise, I much prefer LOVE GUN and barely prefer it over ROCK AND ROLL OVER.

this was the first album I ever owned \m/

Destroyer = My favorite Kiss album.

In my opinion, not a stinker on there.

Well, it looks like it's time to....


ROCK AND ROLL OVER
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Released on November 11, 1976.

Track listing

1. I Want You
2. Take Me
3. Calling Dr. Love
4. Ladies Room
5. Baby Driver

6. Love 'Em and Leave 'Em
7. Mr. Speed
8. See You In Your Dreams
9. Hard Luck Woman
10. Makin' Love

Produced and Engineered by Eddie Kramer
Special Thanks to Sean Delaney (5th KISS member, more or less, at that point)

With Rock and Roll Over KISS got back to what they did so effectively on the first 3 studio albums - playing down and dirty, kick ass Rock and Roll. Gone was the studio experimentation of Destroyer (which many fans did not like), and in it's place a raw, almost live vibe (the album was recorded in an empty theater).

Also back was the filler - only this time it was strangely appealing, really good filler. The first side of the album was absolute killer from start to finish, but the 2nd side seemed like the follow up to Dressed To Kill. The first 3 songs on side 2 could all be considered filler (although "Mr. Speed," is pretty close to A-List material), but then they finish the album out with two absolutely great songs.

Rock and Roll Over has been considered by many to be the quintessential KISS studio album from the 70's. I've always ranked this one pretty highly among all the KISS albums.

Rock and Roll Ovah has one of the best album covers EVER. Love it.

Rock And Roll Over is just a classical straight up raw rock & roll album, which was just what the band needed to remind their core fans they hadn't gone too far over the edge with experimentation.

The only two cuts on it I would consider filler are "Mr. Speed" and "See You In Your Dreams". The former doesn't have a lot to offer for me, other than it's Stonesy guitar riff. The latter never really did much for me, either, and I was always a bit surprised when Gene would later resurrect it for his solo album.

The rest, though, is fantastic. As B5Erik pointed out, Side one (or in these days, the first half of the album) is just a stone cold killer all the way through! These are some of my favorite KISS tunes. Period.

Once you get to second half, things stay on track with "Love 'Em and Leave 'Em", which sounds like it could have come off any of the first three albums. Next two tracks have already been covered. The final two, however, are also fantastic. "Hard Luck Woman" is a great ballad, even if it is clearly evident who the song was written for originally - that being Rod Stewart - as Paul does a great job of capturing the style of "Maggie May" and "You Were It Well". Closing things out is a barn burner to do it in style with "Makin' Love".

Yep, a pretty solid album which I've actually gone to favor even more over the years.

I've given the best studio album to their debut but RnR Over is my personal fave.One not so great song on each side(Baby Driver and See You In Your Dreams)are the only flaws i can find on this album.Take Me is just a fuckin classic and I could never figure out why the band didn't really do anything with it.Makin Love just outright kicks ass and I also think Love Em,Leave Em is a better tune that it ever got credit for.I agree that most songs here could easily fit in with any of the first three albums.
I only wished they'd opened with Take Me then I Want You.
As far as the cover goes,another terrible cartoon theme that does no justice for what lies inside.

During the reunion tours I wish they would have played Hard Luck Woman instead of Beth... but that would mean they would have to change the setlist.

I'm gonna be the mood deflater here, but I really don't care for Rock And Roll Over that much.

I barely prefer it over Destroyer, only because the production excesses of said album were kind of a turn off, although in the grand scheme of thing DESTROYER has more memorable songs. That said, there is a TON of crappy filler on this album.

1. I Want You -- this song is OK but honestly -- it's not THAT memorable. I love the soft opening that crashes into the metal punch, but the rest of the song hasa kind of take-it-or-leave-it vibe.

2. Take Me -- sucks. This song is kind of bland and repetitive.

3. Calling Dr. Love -- classic Gene. Great song, although I think they should have gone with their first instincts and had female backups on the chorus rather than Gene and Paul doing falsettos. I actually prefer the DOUBLE PLATINUM remix though.

4. Ladies Room -- another ehh OK track. It's decent but again, not memorable.

5. Baby Driver -- not a big Peter fan, but I like this tune. Got a nice groove to it. I always sing "Go MINNIE Driver" just to piss myself off. This is why I refuse to talk to myself at smart parties.

6. Love 'Em and Leave 'Em -- sucks. Totally forgettable. Lame chorus on this one, no hook, meh.

7. Mr. Speed -- probably my favorite Paul song on the album, but it's still just OK.

8. See You In Your Dreams -- TERRIBLE... and made even worse on Gene's solo album.

9. Hard Luck Woman -- not really a typical KISS tune by any stretch, but a great song nonetheless.

10. Makin' Love -- I fucking hate this song. Repetitive as hell, dipshit lyrics, lame riff. Bad final track to a disappointing album.


So that's 3 good tunes, 3 average ones, 4 and lame ones. That makes ROCK AND ROLL OVER a swing-and-a-miss as far as I'm concerned. I much prefer LOVE GUN, as it has much better-crafted and memorable tunes.

Now to move the mood back up.

Rock And Roll Over is definitely one of my favorite albums of theirs. I love the cover and it makes me think that KISS in their make-up years had the best album covers of all time. Just cool and fun to look at...but that could be the excited kid in me speaking. (Gotta get the neon clock of this cover at Spencer's one of these days.)

Great album with Baby Driver being the weakest song. See You In Your Dreams is weak as well but for some reason I have always been drawn to Gene's stuff and tend to like it no matter how lame. Can't wait to read all the bashing when we get to his solo album.

KISS KLASSICS: I Want You, Take Me, Calling Dr. Love, Ladies Room, Love 'Em And Leave 'Em, Hard Luck Woman, and Makin' Love. That many awesome songs makes this album a must-buy.

My rating: ****1/2 out of *****

I interrupt this discussion of KISS albums to bring you a totally fascinating screenshot from ATTACK OF THE PHANTOMS:



Carry on then...

Man...I was hoping it would be the black Ace.

Please, what could be better than a shot of Paul trying to a destroy a killer robot... just by using his face?!?!

It's time for another edition of Point/Counterpoint...

Unlike Destroyer and Dressed To Kill?

Jane, you ignorant slut. "I Want You," is the QUINTESSENTIAL Classic KISS song. Great melody, great riff, great groove. It is the perfect KISS song.

"Take Me".... ROCKS!! This is another great KISS song. Great riffs, great melodies, solid, solid hook.

I don't, but this IS a great song. Again, this is what Classic KISS is all about! One of Gene's best songs - sure, it's fairly simple, but simple in a great way.

Near filler, but the attitude's all killer so I grade this one out as a "B."

Peter's BEST song with KISS.

It's filler - but GOOD filler.

Probably me LEAST favorite Paul song on the album, but it's still a really good song. (Yeah, filler, but really good filler.)

Not terrible, but not all that good, either. This is where being rushed to get an album done so quickly really hurt. One more killer from Gene in place of this one and this album would be considered by a vast majority of KISS fans to be their best album.

A great song. Too bad we'll never hear the Rod Stewart of 1976 do this one. That would have been really interesting.

Once again - Jane, you ignorant slut. "Makin' Love features some of the best riffing KISS ever did. This is a MONUMENTAL song riff-wise, and the vocal melodies are fantastic. This is another song that defines what classic KISS was all about!


For my money, that's 4 of KISS' all time best songs, 4 above average songs, 1 good song, and 1 mediocre piece of filler.

Making Rock And Roll Over an in the park Home Run (a triple stretched to a home run thanks to the sheer quality of the best tracks).

Just my opinion, and you are free to disagree with it. You'd be wrong, of course, if you did....

IMWDO, of course.

BANG!

LOVE GUN
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Released on June 30, 1977.

Track Listing

1. I Stole Your Love
2. Christine Sixteen
3. Got Love For Sale
4. Shock Me
5. Tomorrow and Tonight

6. Love Gun
7. Hooligan
8. Almost Human
9. Plaster Caster
10. Then She Kissed Me

Produced by Eddie Kramer, Engineered by Eddie Kramer and Corky Stasiak.

Rock and Roll Over's little brother, Love Gun certainly packs a punch. Absolute KISS Classics like I Stole Your Love, Shock Me, and Love Gun help make this one of the better albums in the KISS catalog.

The decision to cover "Then He Kissed Me," (with the prerequisite gender change, of course) has always puzzled me. Even as a kid back in the 70's I thought that was the weakest link on the album and an odd choice. Another KISS original would have been a better decision. But that's almost nit-picking considering how good the album is overall.

This was a huge success for the band as the album shipped Platinum and reached #4 on the Billboard Top 200 Albums chart. This really was the peak of their career. The Love Gun Tour was the iconic tour that really cemented the band's reputation as THE live band of the decade.

Long story short: this is in my Top 5 for KISS albums. Not quite as awesome as KISS, HOTTER THAN HELL, or ALIVE!, but better than DESTROYER, ROCK AND ROLL OVER, and ALIVE II.

I love every track except for "Got Love For Sale" and "Hooligan", which are OK, and "Then She Kissed Me", which blows. The opening track just roars, and segues nicely into the sleazy-pop perfection of "Christine Sixteen". And of course, "Shock Me" announced the triumphant ascendancy of Ace to the lead mike, and it's about bloody time too.

I think I'm one of the 3 people I know who really, really love the sleazy early 70s sensibilities of "Almost Human", but it's one of Gene's best songs IMO.

Great freakin' album!!! Better than fruit cup!

I'm on the other side here.Of the last three studio albums this is the weakest.
I Stole Your Love,IMO,is one of their best ever and Love Gun may make the top 25 but the rest of this is poor.Christine Sixteen and Shock Me are okay
while Almost Human,Plaster Caster,And Then She Kissed Me are emabarrasing.
Once again we are presented with cartoon album covers not to mention that stupid cardboard gun that came with it's original release.
FYI-I saw Kiss on this tour and it was my very first concert.Cheap Trick opened for them and the ticket cost was $7.50.
They opened with I Stole Your Love and yes it was a great show allthough a little short.