DaveWadding

looks like I'll get the MSG one pending tracklists.

Jason

Sao Paulo for me. I'll take all the non-reunion material I can get.

Josh-da-man

The butchered setlists are getting really annoying -- especially as the disc count (and price) has gone up with each set.

B5Erik

I'm glad that the Dodger Stadium gig is there in its entirety (I was there - GREAT show), but the Revenge show should have been given the same treatment.

It's still a good set, really good, but it looks like another, "Woulda, coulda been great," set. I don't get the edited shows - it doesn't make sense.

Dubya

I'll be picking up the MSG bonus disc.

zombiezilla

I'll take the weenie roast disc, and maybe the MSG. I stay pretty far from most of Kiss's "look at us, we've got talent now" non-make-up years. Some of it is alright, but after you've seen a few from that era, you've seen 'em all. 'Course, I guess to someone else who didn't care for the pre-and-post Kulick era, the make-up stuff would be "seen one, seen 'em all", too.

nothingfails

Sao Paolo for me as well, I like both makeup and non-makeup Kiss

turborobb

I'm all over the Sao Paolo show. I think I was one of the few KISS fans that didn't want them to put the make-up back on with Ace and Peter. Don't get me wrong, I loved seeing it, and seeing them in the make up playing Rock n Roll All Nite live 10th row is the only time I actually cried at a rock show.... but still, they became their own tribute band... I would rather they had stuck with Singer and Kulick and released new material every 2 or 3 years. Say what you will about Carnival of Souls... but "Jungle" was KISS' biggest radio hit single during the 90's, not Psycho Circus.

Looks like we have a lot of KISS fans on this board... we need a general all purpose KISS thread.

For those of you on Florida, there is a KISS Expo Nov 4th in Kissimmie (Near Orlando/Disney) Bruce Kulick is going to be there.

B5Erik

The exact thing that I didn't want to happen happened. KISS put the make-up back on, and continued beyond the Reunion tour that way. They became the Beach Boys of Metal - an "Oldies" act.

Sure, they put out Psycho Circus, but that wasn't really a band effort (Peter only on 1 track on drums, Ace only on 2 on guitar), and without Bruce and Eric in the band (and using studio musicians) it sounded a bit more generic. It wasn't the album the fans wanted, so it tanked. (Sure, there are a few really good songs on there, but overall it really is fairly bland - especially compared to Revenge and Carnival of Souls.)

With Ace & Peter in the band as long as they were KISS' set list was really limited by what those guys could handle live. The set list hardly changed for 5 years.

The Hot in the Shade and Revenge era, to me, was the perfect era for KISS. Able to play ANY song in their catalog, they gave the fans the set lists they wanted. Pulling out classics not played for 15 or more years, and continuing to play the best songs from the non-makeup years, those shows were fantastic.

Plus, without the heavy, bulky costumes and platform boots the band could really move on stage - Gene actually ran around the stage at every concert! The shows had a much higher energy level.

All of which I recognized when they were talking Reunion. I wanted Carnival of Souls and a tour in support of that album BEFORE the Reunion tour to keep KISS as a currrent, somewhat relevant, fairly contemporary band. Instead they became the aforementioned "Oldies" or Nostalgia act. (Who knows how well Carnival would have done if it were released in the spring of '96? It was a little more current then than it was in the fall of '97 when it was finally released - and even then "Jungle" was a huge FM Rock Radio hit! As it should have been - it's a GREAT song!)

So, for all those reasons, it's the Sao Paulo version for me.

zombiezilla

Wow, didn't know that about "Jungle". I really think it might've been a regional thing; I never heard it ever on the radio in Michigan/Ohio, and my wife never heard it in Texas. Did it chart anywhere?

B5Erik

"Jungle" was a Billboard Top 10 FM Rock Radio song back in '97 when COS came out.

Jason

The problem is, they (along with hard rock/metal) were steadily declining throughout the early nineties. The revenge tour was weakly attended, and while sales were decent, I don't think they were doing much to attract a new audience. They were doing everything right and writing some of their strongest material ever, but it just wasn't capturing the public's attention. The reunion offered not only a merchandising bonanza, but so much publicity that it must have convinced them that this is the only KISS people want to see. I really, really enjoyed the reunion tour. But after it was over, I wanted them to say, "OK, we did it. Now back to normal." Guess that's never going to happen now.

nothingfails

I agree with you 110% on all accounts.

Makeup or not, I don't really mind, I just miss new music from them. People love to ride on the makeup-less Kiss, but like you said, the Revenge-era incarnation was perhaps some of their strongest musicianship. I say lose Tommy Thayer and call Bruce Kulick back, they parted on good terms anyways. It's too bad so many people are hung up on the original group to accept that there were some great post-Ace songs. Creatures Of The Night (makeup, but Ace only posed, didn't play), Lick It Up and Revenge are three examples that prove that Kiss DIDN'T suck without Ace and Peter. The only difference between Kiss and Aerosmith is that Aerosmith had more radio play. People only want to see Kiss as a 70's band when they had great 80's and 90's stuff too, much like how Aerosmith was seen as a band who was great in all three decades.

B5Erik

I still think that Carnival of Souls would have been at least as big a seller as Revenge, and possibly much bigger as it fit in with the times while still recalling the darker side of KISS' music from throughout their career.

Fans of Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, STP, etc would have dug that album had it been released in April of '96. It was modern, but classic in a way.

An album like Animalize or Asylum (or Psycho Circus) wouldn't have worked in '96, but COS very well could have.

We'll never know for sure. But I'm looking forward to this set (even with the missing songs) for the Revenge/Alive III era stuff (and for the Dodger Stadium & Coventry '73 gigs). But when it comes to the bonus it's the SAO PAULO DVD FOR ME!!!

turborobb

We had a KISS convention here in Orlando this weekend! Bruce Kulick was there and played lots of Revenge and Carnival of Souls songs, plus, of course, the Tears are Falling solo! I had a blast, he did a Q&A and signed lots of stuff for free and was super friendly and nice to everyone. I had a blast and spent about $150 on KISS junk!


Me and Bruce! (I'm a HUGE fan of 80's KISS was just as excited to meet him as I would have been for Gene, Paul, Ace or Peter, he was so nice and awesome!)

B5Erik

Bruce is a great guy and one hell of a great guitar player.

I've talked with him briefly a couple of times, and when I was doing my internet radio show and reviewing CD's for my website I exchanged e-mails with Bruce and he sent me a copy of his 2nd solo album/CD for review. (If you like KISS you should definitely get his 1st solo album, Audiodog, and if you like that then his 2nd, Transformer, is a great bet...)

Rocketdog2000

I can agree with a lot of your points of KISS still being valid without makeup, and without Ace & Peter, but when it comes to Carnival Of Souls, I have to completely disagree with you.

Carnival Of Souls didn't work because it's not that great of an album. Unlike Revenge, there's just no 'songs' (i.e. hits) on it. The only one off it that had even the remotest chance at hit single potential was "Jungle", and even that failed to really ignite any substantial interest. Sure if may have been a "Billboard Top 10 FM Rock Radio" but you have to keep in mind that that was only for a week or two, at best. Other than that, it really didn't get anything for airplay after the first month of it's release. I maybe heard it a few times on the air up here in the Northeast, and then it was gone. It was by no means as 'huge' as you want to make it out to be.

I also don't believe that even if it had been released in '96 it would have done better. By that time, most of the bands you compare it to (who I also like, btw), and that sound, were already on their way out. Maybe, just maybe, if it came out in '94, along with the Kiss My Ass tribute album, when that sound was still in, then possibly - but I still don't really think so.

Ultimately it still comes back to the songs. No hit singles = no hit album, and that's the case with Carnival Of Souls.

JLBkret

My god is he getting old! I still remember meeting him when Michael Bolton first started and he was part of Bolton's band. They had a meet and great at a local hotel after a show, they were practically giving passes away to meet them. My how times have changed, especially for Michael Bolton!

B5Erik

See, we really do view this album differently.

I hear not only "Jungle," as a single (which was in the Billboard top 10 FM Rock tracks for 3 weeks, and had a good run - it WAS highly regional, though, as in some markets it was huge, and in others it just got occasional airplay - but remember, the label didn't really push the single OR the album, so with more push it might have done even better), but I also hear "Master and Slave," (one of the best riffs KISS ever recorded, and one hell of a hook in the chorus), "Rain," and "In the Mirror," as potential singles. Hell, for Alt-Rock stations they could have even released "Childhood's End" as a single!

It's funny that you bring this up now because I've been listening to this album in the car over the last 3 or 4 weeks and I forgot just how much I love this album and how much fun it is to listen to. It's an album of great depth, and still has great riffs and melodies - dark, to be sure, but great riffs and melodies all the same.

Come on, tell me that "Hate" isn't just a complete and total MONSTER of a song, and the perfect mid 90's follow up to "Unholy!"

That's the way I see it. Ever since I got the bootleg in mid '96!

Rocketdog2000

Well, I applaud you for finding anything redeeming about the album. If it's good for you, keep on letting it be so.

For me, however, it just doesn't work. I remember when I first heard of the album coming out, back in the day, I was excited to hear it. But when I finally did, it was like - "WTF?! I have given it chance after chance in re-listenings over the years, hoping my opinion of it might change, and it still hasn't. Hell, just to be fair, I even dug it out today, and listened to it on the way to and from work. About the only other song I can tolerate is "Master & Slave" - and I'll even give you that it had 'potential'. Other than that, this album, to me at least, is a band chasing a sound that was already on the way out. I prefer KISS to sound like KISS, and not some Alice In Chains (or any other 90's sludgy detuned guitar styled outfit) wannabe.

B5Erik

Well, Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, STP, Pearl Jam, and others all had at least one guy in the band who was a big KISS fan and was greatly influenced by them.

Plus, you're missing how almost every song on COS has a precedent in KISS' back catalog.

"Hate" - "Unholy";"Rain" - "Not for the Innocent" and "Strange Ways"; "Master and Slave" - "War Machine"; "Childhood's End" - "Goin' Blind"; "I Will Be There" - "Every Time I Look At You"; "In My Head" - "Mr Blackwell"; etc, etc, etc...

There have been a lot of dark, brooding songs on KISS albums - just not an entire album of them before.

Sure, it was an attempt to fit in, but that attempt was done within the parameters of what KISS had done previously. Taking more obscure songs and styles that they had done and updating them.

You're not alone, however. COS clearly divided KISS fans. Most KISS fans either love Carnival of Souls or hate it. A few fall in between, but the majority can be found on the extremes when it comes to this album.

But just listen to how the drums weave in and out of the riff in "Hate." Now that is BRILLIANT stuff!

(And I'm looking forward to the "Easter egg" on KISSOLOGY 3 of the band in the studio when they recorded COS!)

Rocketdog2000

Well, that I would be interested in seeing.

turborobb

actually, Master and Slave was the second single from COS... my radio station played it once or twice, Jungle was huge here, the station here in Orlando played it like every 2 hours.

B5Erik

I'm heading to Best Buy on the 18th of December....

Best Buy Bonus Disc
Track listing from KISS - MONSTERS OF ROCK SAO PAULO, BRAZIL 8/27/94 is:

"Creatures Of The Night", "Deuce", "Parasite", "Unholy", "I Stole Your Love", "Cold Gin", "Watchin' You", "Firehouse", "Got To Choose", "Calling Dr. Love", "Makin' Love", "War Machine", "I Was Made For Lovin' You", "Domino", "Love Gun", "Lick It Up", "God Of Thunder", "I Love It Loud", "Detroit Rock City", "Black Diamond" and "Heaven's On Fire".

Now THAT is a great set list - and it looks like the entire show (the KISS Alive Forever book listed "Take It Off," but not "I Was Made for Lovin' You," so it looks like their info was incorrect - but it does look like the entire show (except "Rock and Roll All Night," which I won't miss, really...)

Now if they had only given the Detroit '92 the same treatment on the main set I'd be deliriously happy with this set, but it's still going to be great!

turborobb

me showing off....

One of my favorite items from my KISS collection...

The Master and Slave Radio Promo CD Single