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Smashing Pumpkins : Are they really THAT Great?

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Smashing Pumpkins : Are they really THAT Great?

Old 09-27-07, 02:07 AM
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Smashing Pumpkins : Are they really THAT Great?

I haven't at all been a Smashing Pumpkins follower despite owning a couple of their albums that I never spin. Still, so many of my more 'intellectual' friends seem to rate them higher than what I would consider more accessible rock music - such as Lifehouse, Incubus etc.

What do you guys think, and which album would you rate as their best? Also, is there 'something special' about them that other groups dont have?
Old 09-27-07, 03:55 AM
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I never thought they were the greatest, mostly due to Corgan's slightly annoying voice. I do like Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness, but I imagine most people will say Gish is the cream of the crop. Like you, I don't listen to their albums much any more.

I certainly don't like them enough to go see them this weekend.
Old 09-27-07, 04:16 AM
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gish? i would assume most would say siamese dream. ive never known gish to be popular.
Old 09-27-07, 08:52 AM
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Never been a fan because of Billy Corgan's voice and other factors, but I can see why people like them.
Old 09-27-07, 09:02 AM
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I must confess I"m a Corgan whore, supporting the Pumpkins, Zwan even his crappy solo album that came out a few years ago. Although I don't always love the music, I appreciate the effort, and am always looking forward to see what he does next.

I like the fact they try different things with their albums instead of churning out the same thing ever record. Machina, Adore were very different musically and although not fan favorites, in my mind was the group taking risks and trying to do something they find stimulating.

I really actually enjoy corgan's voice, and think the actual music is some of the best I've heard. Lyrically I think they're generally weak, but musically I think the group is pretty strong.

I would say most would rate Mellon Collie first, the Siamese Dream etc. personally I enjoy all their albums even the much panned Adore and Machina. I actually find their newest album Zeitgeist their worst, far worse then Machine and Adore (I liked those because they tried something different with each)

I'm anxiously awaiting to see them again here in a few weeks at the Avalon.
Old 09-27-07, 09:07 AM
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They used to be, but aren't anymore.
I too am a Corgan whore. But I think the problem with the Pumpkins is really Corgan now. There comes a point where you prove that you have artistic integrity, and I completely respect wanting never to repeat your self, but you need to satisfy your fan base. That said, what Pumpkin fans want is another Siamese or Mellon Collie and the fact that they could repeat it (Untitled is proof of this) but don't is what makes being a fan so frustrating. Hell, the Chilli peppers did it with Californication and look what that did for their careers.
Old 09-27-07, 09:07 AM
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I never would have guessed that someone named SpaceBoy would be a Corgan whore
Old 09-27-07, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by pinata242
I never would have guessed that someone named SpaceBoy would be a Corgan whore
Guilty as charged.
Old 09-27-07, 10:53 AM
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Never really got into them until the last year or so. I like them but am not a slobbering fan.
Old 09-27-07, 11:06 AM
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No, they are not really THAT good.
Old 09-27-07, 11:15 AM
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They're OK, nothing special. Coincidentally I was listening to Siamese Dream yesterday in my car.
Old 09-27-07, 11:41 AM
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No. I tried numerous times to like them in the 90's during their peaks of popularity and I couldn't get into them. Corgan's voice was always a major deterrent for me. That, and I just didn't like the music that much. I can see why people would like them, but they're just not my bag.
Old 09-27-07, 11:48 AM
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I was a huge Pumpkins fan back in the day. That time has passed, but I still rank Siamese Dream as one of my favorite albums of all time. Too much filler on Mellon Collie--trim it down to one disc, and then it'd be up there with SD.
Old 09-27-07, 01:00 PM
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From the amount of "Zero" shirts I see, I would assume they are the most popular band ever.
Old 09-27-07, 01:41 PM
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Yes, they are THAT good. Listen to Starla, Mayonaise, Geek USA and their greatest hits CD. I didn't personally care much for Machina, but otherwise they're pretty damn solid. If you see them on a night when they are in a good mood and have a good crowd, Billy Corgan will destroy you with the rock. Yes, I know that they had a lot of bad shows in the SD/MCIS/Machina eras. I saw some of them. But when they're on, they kill shows.
Old 09-27-07, 02:05 PM
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They are FUCKING AWESOME. Just listen to the opening riffs of Cherub Rock, BWBW, Doomsday Clock, like a fucking nuclear weapon being trained on you. Billy doesn't have the greatest voice in the world, but his growl fits the music. NO ONE in their genre wrong songs like him. Jimmy is one of the greatest drummers in rock history.

SP invented several recording techniques that have been used ever since. Their records are well produced (save for the vocals, where the vocals need to be backed down 1000%), and the songs hit you like a train.

In conclusion - Billy Corgan will destroy you with the rock.
Old 09-27-07, 02:36 PM
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I'll profess undying love for both "Siamese Dream" and "Mellon Collie".
Old 09-27-07, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by DamingR
If you see them on a night when they are in a good mood and have a good crowd, Billy Corgan will destroy you with the rock. Yes, I know that they had a lot of bad shows in the SD/MCIS/Machina eras. I saw some of them. But when they're on, they kill shows.
That's the problem with seeing them live. I've been to alot of terrible shows of theres (the 3 night stand at AllState Arena in Rosemont Illinois during the Mellon Collie tour & Chicago-Detroit-Cleveland during the Arise! Tour) & also some absolutley amazing ones (Opening For The Rolling Stones, Roseland Ballroom during the Sacred & Profane tour & The Final Show at the Metro). You can never tell when they are on or they are off. I once saw them at the University of Illinois and Billy never once talked to the crowd. And sometimes if he is pissed he won't even play an encore or will cut the 3rd portion of the set.

The other issue I have with them live, and most people don't, is that they play some iterations of there songs that sound nothing like the album version (sometimes this is good (the live versions of "Shame" "Ava Adore") and sometimes this is bad (3 of the 5 live versions of "BWBW" "Rocket" "The Crying Tree of Mercury"). To some that is part of the live experience but it just doesn't work for me.

Another thing, which is hit or miss for some fans, is that Billy tends to shove songs down his fans throats until he finds an arrangement he likes (see "Blue Skies Bring Tears").

But one thing I absolutley love about seeing them live is that very often if a crowd starts cheering for a song, provided he is in a good mood, he will tear into it. For example, during the last leg of the Machina I was in a group of people that got them to play an encore of Porcelina Of The Vast Oceans, Geek Usa & Whir.
Old 09-27-07, 07:18 PM
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I like them quite well, but only the "hits". They're a 1990's group that I had little time for (I used to have a lot of disdain for the music of the 90s, but the 00's make the 90's positively 60s-ish...LOL), but I enjoy(ed) what I've heard on the radio or at clubs.
Old 09-27-07, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckleyesque
I haven't at all been a Smashing Pumpkins follower despite owning a couple of their albums that I never spin. Still, so many of my more 'intellectual' friends seem to rate them higher than what I would consider more accessible rock music - such as Lifehouse, Incubus etc.

What do you guys think, and which album would you rate as their best? Also, is there 'something special' about them that other groups dont have?

Lifehouse and Incubus is rock music? I'd almost consider those two bands more pop than rock.

Many of the pumpkins greatest hits are because of their great guitar jams, that are reminescent of 70's rock.

I would say generally the 2 most beloved albums by both fans and non-fans would be siamese dream (which is a rock masterpiece. Short and impactful). And Mellin Collie and the Infinite Sadness (Is not as impactful, but is so massive with so many different styles of music, its equally as good).

Also where as most band's b-sides are usually just crap songs that we're not good enough for the album, I tend to find that many of the pumpkins B-sides are superior to the album works, and there are several B-sides albums out there.
Old 09-27-07, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mndtrp
I imagine most people will say Gish is the cream of the crop.

No
Old 09-27-07, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by MWB
Too much filler on Mellon Collie--trim it down to one disc, and then it'd be up there with SD.

Really? You can trim MC to one disc? What would you cut out :P
Old 09-27-07, 07:57 PM
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I know some people don't like variations of the songs from the album music.

But the re-worked Heavy Metal Machine? Holy cow. As it slows down from Billy rant into the rocking part of the song, with Jeff Schroeder totally killing it on the solo guitar..its massive.
Old 09-27-07, 11:00 PM
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The one album I don't own (anymore) and refuse to buy ever again is "Machina". Over-processed to hell. I have to admit that the songs from this album are much better live and stripped of that studio processing.

There are some really good songs/variations on Machina 2....things that should have been on Machina instead.
Old 09-28-07, 05:13 AM
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Hmm, well The Smashing Pumpkins are sort of like a poor mans' Pearl Jam (to me anyway) - at least thats what listening to portions of Adore makes me think. What exactly is good about that album is beyond me, seriously. If rock music is to be perceived as a bunch of weird dumb noises thrown together, then Adore would win hands down.

Well heres the thing, Incubus and Lifehouse are not rock in the true sense, but they could be classifed as accessible rock - a few pop elements are there, but Im a sucker for power arena rock, and these bands do it fine. From what I hear of the Smashing Pumpkins theres not too much of a hook to reel me in, plus the lead singers vocals are definitely NOT a selling point. Ive never been into Corgan only because I truly feels he lacks a cohesive element about him - and to top it all of his voice is very, very weak. I would even rate Jon Bon Jovi's voice higher than his.....

I see the camp is almost equally divided between fierce SP loyalists and people who cant stand the band....

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