The one-and-only RIAA news/discussion thread [2003 - part two]
07-20-03, 10:09 PM
#51
DVD Talk Hero
• Quoth jonny#5 •<HR SIZE=1>I live in NYC...Have Cable internet with TWC...A friend of mine got subpoena'd........Im petrified Im next...what is likely to happen to him?
Thx <HR SIZE=1>
That's a very good question. They can't possibly hope to take each and every "offender" to court. I assume they're just looking to scare people and make quick settlements on the hopes that those they go after can't afford the legal costs of a defense. At this point, a subpoena isn't a lawsuit. What are the details?
das
07-21-03, 06:40 AM
#52
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Originally posted by jonny#5
I live in NYC...Have Cable internet with TWC...A friend of mine got subpoena'd........Im petrified Im next...what is likely to happen to him?
Thx
I live in NYC...Have Cable internet with TWC...A friend of mine got subpoena'd........Im petrified Im next...what is likely to happen to him?
Thx
If you don't mind my asking. How many files was your friend shareing, and very importantly, who were the main artist's your friend shared? Also what P2P network was he/she useing?
07-21-03, 02:16 PM
#53
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I'm wondering how much of this will also supplement the profits of these industries? Who knows, maybe this is their new business model.
Just think, if they can get 75 people a day with an averge of $7500 in damages, they can rake in over $200million extra each year. That would make up for alot, especially in this down economy when there sales would have been hurting anyway.
Just think, if they can get 75 people a day with an averge of $7500 in damages, they can rake in over $200million extra each year. That would make up for alot, especially in this down economy when there sales would have been hurting anyway.
07-21-03, 04:18 PM
#54
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Originally posted by das Monkey
I still can't figure out whether to be angry or laugh. This is another in a long list of stupid people who think they can stop the underground technology community from doing whatever it pleases. Even if they can slow file sharing for a while (unlikely, but maybe), it won't be for any significant period of time. If people desire it, it will return stronger than before. It always has. It always will. Not even a corporate monster like the RIAA has the power to stop that. They can sue a hundred thousand people, and it won't change anything. It certainly isn't going to make me, or anyone else, go out and buy more CDs than currently. The whole thing is just laughable.
das
I still can't figure out whether to be angry or laugh. This is another in a long list of stupid people who think they can stop the underground technology community from doing whatever it pleases. Even if they can slow file sharing for a while (unlikely, but maybe), it won't be for any significant period of time. If people desire it, it will return stronger than before. It always has. It always will. Not even a corporate monster like the RIAA has the power to stop that. They can sue a hundred thousand people, and it won't change anything. It certainly isn't going to make me, or anyone else, go out and buy more CDs than currently. The whole thing is just laughable.
das
I'm no fan of big music, but I support this.
07-21-03, 05:45 PM
#55
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I also want to know how they are going to prove I was the one using the computer if they subpeona me if I was sharing or downloading files. I have one computer in this house of 4 roommates. We all share since none of us are at home at the same time. So are all five of us responsible or who ever owns the largest portion of the computer since we all contribute to upgrades.
I am still waiting to hear a cd this year I want to buy.
I am still waiting to hear a cd this year I want to buy.
07-21-03, 05:48 PM
#56
DVD Talk Hero
• Quoth Scot1458 •<HR SIZE=1>It's more laughable if they do nothing and watch their very existence be wiped out.
I'm no fan of big music, but I support this. <HR SIZE=1>
While action is preferable to inaction, that doesn't mean that the first stupid idea someone comes up with should be supported. There are multiple ways to proceed that are preferable to this, but as the RIAA is more about lining the pockets of their bloated corporate structure instead of fostering an environment where music artists can succeed and profit from their art, they really have no interest in more effective measures.
If such action weren't so detrimental to the artists who are trying to sell their music, I would find it easier to laugh at their stupidity; but since they're wasting millions of dollars for the privilege of banging their head against a wall instead of adequately marketing their product, I end up just feeling sad. Like Sisyphus, these jokers seem compelled to keep pushing the stone up the hill.
I guess it's hard to blame them though. The instustry is so bloated that a profitable marketing strategy would involve trimming a significant amount of fat. Since that fat is running the show, there's no motivation for them to follow that course of action even if it's inevitable. The longer they can delay it -- even to the detiment of the music industry as a whole -- the more cash they can stash in their pockets before jumping ship. The injustry will evolve; it has to. File sharing will continue; it cannot be stopped. These things are inevitable. To fight what cannot be changed instead of using it to their advantage is a mistake they're already paying for now and will continue to pay for in the future. They can blame it on file-sharing for a while, but sooner or later, people will figure out the real reasons for the industry's problems, and one of those prime reasons is how much money they waste pointing fingers at others.
Whether you're for or against file sharing, nothing good can come from this profoundly stupid course of action by the RIAA.
das
07-22-03, 09:54 AM
#57
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I have to ask everyone; how many artists in the "modern era" ( meaning the last five years or so) do you have every album by? I can't think of one where I'm concerned.
By contrast, in the 70's through the 80' I bought every single album that certain artists released for over a decade. Cheap Trick for example ( whether you like them or not, that's a side issue, but they fit in with what I'm saying so bear with me). I bought every Cheap Trick album from 1977-1997. That's 20 years and over 15 albums ( or CDs the formats have changed). Who do you think from todays crop of "artists" will be around long enough or have enough quality output to warrant purchasing every single release from? I can't think of anybody. The only guys I can think of, for me at least, are the guys who don't sell the bazillions of copys ( like the Matthew Sweet's and Fountains Of Wayne's of the world).
This is what's hurting the industry more than downloading. The fact that everything is so disposable that you really don't feel the need to run out and purchase a CD because you really like a particular artist. And the output reflects it. With only a few good tracks on a disc and the rest being throw aways. This is especially true in the last few years. Here today, gone later today. Nobody has any staying power. So what's the point of investing your time and money into that artists work? Joe Scarborough on MSNBC said Friday night to song writer Chuck Cannon that the reason people aren't buying music these days is because most music "STINKS" and that the labels don't foster the kind of artistic growth they did in years past. He hit the nail on the head.
By contrast, in the 70's through the 80' I bought every single album that certain artists released for over a decade. Cheap Trick for example ( whether you like them or not, that's a side issue, but they fit in with what I'm saying so bear with me). I bought every Cheap Trick album from 1977-1997. That's 20 years and over 15 albums ( or CDs the formats have changed). Who do you think from todays crop of "artists" will be around long enough or have enough quality output to warrant purchasing every single release from? I can't think of anybody. The only guys I can think of, for me at least, are the guys who don't sell the bazillions of copys ( like the Matthew Sweet's and Fountains Of Wayne's of the world).
This is what's hurting the industry more than downloading. The fact that everything is so disposable that you really don't feel the need to run out and purchase a CD because you really like a particular artist. And the output reflects it. With only a few good tracks on a disc and the rest being throw aways. This is especially true in the last few years. Here today, gone later today. Nobody has any staying power. So what's the point of investing your time and money into that artists work? Joe Scarborough on MSNBC said Friday night to song writer Chuck Cannon that the reason people aren't buying music these days is because most music "STINKS" and that the labels don't foster the kind of artistic growth they did in years past. He hit the nail on the head.
Last edited by Captain Harlock; 07-22-03 at 09:57 AM.
07-22-03, 11:17 AM
#58
DVD Talk Hero
Well, if they're in the era defined as the last 5 years, it's not likely they'd have many albums, but I know what you're asking so I'll try to answer it.
The only band I can think of that can be considered "new" and fits your criteria for me is Evanescence, and if left to the radio stations, I probably would have become so fed up with their non-stop airplay of Bring Me to Life that I never would have bought the album in the first place. Fortunately, they came to Music Midtown, so I went to see them, and they rocked; so I downloaded their album on KaZaa, and all the tracks were good -- not typical filler -- and most were better than the song on the radio, so I went to the store and bought the album. Later, I tracked down their earlier albums (not really official releases) and liked them as well; had they been available to purchase, I would have bought them. I enjoy them enough that when their next album comes out, I'll actually pay attention enough and very likely buy it. Even now, knowing how much I enjoy the album, I'm still fed up with hearing Bring Me to Life over and over and over.
It brings home the point that the industry is so dominated by filler albums and clone rock that even when they get a solid album that doesn't really sound like all the other stuff they're playing, they don't know what the hell to do with it. They just play the most generic song from the album ad nauseum.
Anyway, I agree with what you're saying. Evanescence was just a fluke for me. I can't think of anything (mainstream) that I've heard recently that I have any attachment to whatsoever. Half the time I can't even figure out which of the bands is playing the song, since they all sound the same. When I go to the store to buy CDs, I'm always picking up older music, be it something from the 1950s or from the early 90s.
I have a very wide range of music interests, and yet I find almost nothing of consequence in what's being shoved down our throats right now; and whenever I do find a song that I like, it turns out that the rest of the album is just crap. What's worse, these bands suck live. If you can't put out a good complete album or a good concert tour, what significance or staying power can you possibly have?
The drive in the industry is far from artistic growth and is more about finding a song that some people like, then finding or manufacturing a bunch of bands that sound exactly the same, getting them to crap out an "album" based around a clone song and then getting that clone song out to the airwaves as quickly as possible. I know that's always been part of the industry, but it seems now more than ever that that's the only thing going on.
I've often said that if file sharing does have a negative impact on the music industry, it's most likely because it reminds people that music doesn't have to suck.
das
The only band I can think of that can be considered "new" and fits your criteria for me is Evanescence, and if left to the radio stations, I probably would have become so fed up with their non-stop airplay of Bring Me to Life that I never would have bought the album in the first place. Fortunately, they came to Music Midtown, so I went to see them, and they rocked; so I downloaded their album on KaZaa, and all the tracks were good -- not typical filler -- and most were better than the song on the radio, so I went to the store and bought the album. Later, I tracked down their earlier albums (not really official releases) and liked them as well; had they been available to purchase, I would have bought them. I enjoy them enough that when their next album comes out, I'll actually pay attention enough and very likely buy it. Even now, knowing how much I enjoy the album, I'm still fed up with hearing Bring Me to Life over and over and over.
It brings home the point that the industry is so dominated by filler albums and clone rock that even when they get a solid album that doesn't really sound like all the other stuff they're playing, they don't know what the hell to do with it. They just play the most generic song from the album ad nauseum.
Anyway, I agree with what you're saying. Evanescence was just a fluke for me. I can't think of anything (mainstream) that I've heard recently that I have any attachment to whatsoever. Half the time I can't even figure out which of the bands is playing the song, since they all sound the same. When I go to the store to buy CDs, I'm always picking up older music, be it something from the 1950s or from the early 90s.
I have a very wide range of music interests, and yet I find almost nothing of consequence in what's being shoved down our throats right now; and whenever I do find a song that I like, it turns out that the rest of the album is just crap. What's worse, these bands suck live. If you can't put out a good complete album or a good concert tour, what significance or staying power can you possibly have?
The drive in the industry is far from artistic growth and is more about finding a song that some people like, then finding or manufacturing a bunch of bands that sound exactly the same, getting them to crap out an "album" based around a clone song and then getting that clone song out to the airwaves as quickly as possible. I know that's always been part of the industry, but it seems now more than ever that that's the only thing going on.
I've often said that if file sharing does have a negative impact on the music industry, it's most likely because it reminds people that music doesn't have to suck.
das
07-22-03, 11:42 AM
#59
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
I read this in another forum and found it interesting:
And on another note here is an interesting law: I SUGGEST YOU READ THIS:
http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/ideas/Au...ordingAct.html
MasterJazz, Here is something I posted on another thread that applies here. The RIAA reported that the age group that spends the most money on music is 40 and older with 35.4 percent of buyers and that group is getting larger due to the baby boom. Meanwhile the music industry spends almost nothing to market music to the largest buying group, and instead chooses to court the 15-29 age group almost exclusively, a group that is shrinking by an estimated 3 percent a year. So guess what? Sales are down! And you know why? They swear it's because people are downloading music from the internet. --- Of course if you ask people in that 40 plus age group why they aren't spending as much on music (even though they spend the most, industry wide sales are down about $2 billion from last year) they'll tell you that they aren't interested in the youth oriented product being pushed through every medium. Add to that the closure of stores with broad catalogs due to deep discounting in WalMart and the like and it adds up to decreased sales in the older titles that the record companies depend on for a large part of their income but spend nothing on promoting (like Dark Side of the Moon for instance). --- Now the RIAA is anouncing the intent to sue individuals who post music to be downloaded on the internet. If you think about it for a moment you can't help but wonder why the RIAA ignores its own statistics. I can imagine the discussions in the marketing groups of the major labels. Let's see, should we put some emphasis on increasing sales to the largest sector? Nah, they won't listen to the stuff we're selling; they're too old. Instead let's market to the group that is shrinking and has less money to spend, and when sales go down we can blame the internet. Ah, brilliant! Then we can employ more lawyers, tie up the courts in silly lawsuits, and continue to promote new artists with no history while we ignore proven talents who demand large shares of revenue because of their past success. --- Why don't they just face the fact that there are buyers in all age groups and you can make a decent profit by pursuing sales across the board? Are they so blinded by the success of superstars that they they can't think clearly? Are they totally incompetent, on drugs, or plain stupid? Maybe you know, because it's too frustrating for me to answer these questions since I keep trying to apply common sense and their actions appear to be non-sensical. --- Paul
http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/ideas/Au...ordingAct.html
07-23-03, 11:10 PM
#60
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Originally posted by Nausicaa
And on another note here is an interesting law: I SUGGEST YOU READ THIS:
http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/ideas/Au...ordingAct.html
And on another note here is an interesting law: I SUGGEST YOU READ THIS:
http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/ideas/Au...ordingAct.html
-Gunshy
07-23-03, 11:38 PM
#61
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Originally posted by Nausicaa
I read this in another forum and found it interesting:
And on another note here is an interesting law: I SUGGEST YOU READ THIS:
http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/ideas/Au...ordingAct.html
I read this in another forum and found it interesting:
And on another note here is an interesting law: I SUGGEST YOU READ THIS:
http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/ideas/Au...ordingAct.html
Regular blank CD-Rs from the computer section of the store don't carry this royalty. Neither do CD-R/W drives, AFAIK.
Does this special exemption apply ONLY when it can be proven that the royalty/tax has been paid?
07-24-03, 07:52 PM
#62
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First RIAA "hitlist" is up.
Not that anyone here would admit to being on it, but friend of a friend you might have seen in an email? I "read" that if you have to, take stuff out of that shared folder and if you can swap drives easily..why that would be just splendid.
http://www.techtv.com/news/culture/s...484600,00.html
http://www.techtv.com/news/culture/s...484600,00.html
07-24-03, 09:02 PM
#65
DVD Talk God
Originally posted by Tom Banjo
Wow, I've downloaded from this guy many times.
Wow, I've downloaded from this guy many times.
07-25-03, 03:58 PM
#67
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Thanks for the link. That list makes me sad. What has our country become, are we a free country, or are we only as free as corporate America allows us to be? It's time the sheep of america wake up, and realize what the hell is going on here!
I hope all of you know these lawsuites(sp) are funded not only by CD sales, but also by YOUR tax dollars. Not only should we ban buying CD's, but also ban voteing for polititions(sp) that like to waist our tax money on insignificant B.S. like the entertainment industry. I just wish more people would get involved.
Here is a shameless spam. Please join, and learn more about the truth of the RIAA. It is more than just shareing MP's, it's about consumer freedom, and fair contracts to the artist's. Please people, even if you are aginst file shareing and MP3's, take five minutes out of your day to become informed. There is so much more to it than what you hear or read. The media is owned by the same people who own these record labels, you will never know the truth, unless you click here.
Shameless Plug - http://www.boycott-riaa.com/
I hope all of you know these lawsuites(sp) are funded not only by CD sales, but also by YOUR tax dollars. Not only should we ban buying CD's, but also ban voteing for polititions(sp) that like to waist our tax money on insignificant B.S. like the entertainment industry. I just wish more people would get involved.
Here is a shameless spam. Please join, and learn more about the truth of the RIAA. It is more than just shareing MP's, it's about consumer freedom, and fair contracts to the artist's. Please people, even if you are aginst file shareing and MP3's, take five minutes out of your day to become informed. There is so much more to it than what you hear or read. The media is owned by the same people who own these record labels, you will never know the truth, unless you click here.
Shameless Plug - http://www.boycott-riaa.com/
07-25-03, 04:37 PM
#68
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[soapbox]
Gaaaaaaawwwwwddd... I've had it up to here ^ with this belly aching about the RIAA... Folks, when you buy a CD, you're paying for the material contained within', NOT for the damn_media that it's presented on... If you think music should be free, then I suggest getting off your asses and making your own... Or stop listening. It's that simple. If you want to help the artists, get out and support your local music scene and buy their products. I personally don't care if they shut down every file trader on the internet... File traders act like it's their God given right as an American to have any damn_thing that they want for free. That's the only thing that makes me sick about any of this...
[/soapbox]
And yes, I do download music... Live concerts from bands that encourage the practice... Not copyrighted material owned by a major label whose main goal is to produce a consumer product. It's called capitalism, you should be used to it by now.
Flame away kids... Flame away...
07-25-03, 05:06 PM
#69
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Nah, the angst level in here because of your comments enough is more then the level of angst needed in a thread.. see
http://www.theforumisdown.com/upload...angstmeter.gif
Anyhow. the main issue there is folks want the mainstream pop crap but don't want to pay the 15+ bucks for the cd that contains only 2-3 songs they like. Apple's Imusic is helping that out but most of the bands complaining about the downloads are refusing to sell songs off in singles because they want to sell the full album instead of making the 2-3 bucks. either way, a new format is around and the music companies should realize that and change the business model to help them make money.
http://www.theforumisdown.com/upload...angstmeter.gif
Anyhow. the main issue there is folks want the mainstream pop crap but don't want to pay the 15+ bucks for the cd that contains only 2-3 songs they like. Apple's Imusic is helping that out but most of the bands complaining about the downloads are refusing to sell songs off in singles because they want to sell the full album instead of making the 2-3 bucks. either way, a new format is around and the music companies should realize that and change the business model to help them make money.
07-25-03, 07:32 PM
#71
DVD Talk Hero
• Quoth Johnny Zhivago •<HR SIZE=1>
[soapbox]...[/soapbox]
Flame away kids... Flame away... <HR SIZE=1>
No need. The superficial oversimplification of this issue presented within your post has already been addressed in significant detail in this forum and in Otter, and if interested a Search would reveal all the information you could want about why people are upset with the RIAA and why it's not for the juvenile reasons you've ranted about.
As for having it up to ^, I've experienced the same with the repeated high-horse climbing, condemning those of us who have legitimate grievances with the way the RIAA conducts business, as they continually try to avoid the same market conditions every other industry faces daily, and in the process do more to hurt music artists than help them.
das
07-26-03, 01:29 AM
#72
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Could someone clarify something for me. I haven't been following all this RIAA crap. Are they only targeting those who share the files? Or anyone who downloads the files? And are they just going after those with a huge library of shared titles, or is it random?
07-26-03, 05:19 AM
#74
DVD Talk Hero
Originally posted by dgmayor
At quick glance that list looks like its about 75% "female" names. You think they figure females would be easier to scare?
At quick glance that list looks like its about 75% "female" names. You think they figure females would be easier to scare?
07-26-03, 01:01 PM
#75
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Johnny Zhivago
You are entiteled to your opinion, but all I ask, if you are going to stand on your soapbox, and preach to us, is to become a little more informed as to what we are talking about here. Maybe if you took the time to learn a little more as to what is going on behind the scenes in the music biz, you would change your attitude twords this issue a little bit. The battle against the RIAA is not about getting our music free. Many consumers have been fed up for a long time. I stoped buying CD's, and was fed up with the direction the idustry was going in, long before I ever even owned a P.C., or even heard of fileshareing. The entire industry, from the record lables, to the radio and video stations, right on down to the to the over priced concert tours in sheds made to highjack your wallet, smells of urine.
They are trying to bend the law around to suit them, and useing my tax money to do it. Some of those laws are made to protect me, "the Consumer", from big buisness like them. As a consumer, I am allowed to complain and voice my opinion. That is a part of capitalism to, by the way, and most buisness's respond by trying to make the cosumer happy, something the members of the RIAA have failed to do for over a decade now. Just because you are content with the way things are going in the music biz, doesn't mean we have to be also, and if you were so fed up with this topic, why did you even bother to reply.
You are entiteled to your opinion, but all I ask, if you are going to stand on your soapbox, and preach to us, is to become a little more informed as to what we are talking about here. Maybe if you took the time to learn a little more as to what is going on behind the scenes in the music biz, you would change your attitude twords this issue a little bit. The battle against the RIAA is not about getting our music free. Many consumers have been fed up for a long time. I stoped buying CD's, and was fed up with the direction the idustry was going in, long before I ever even owned a P.C., or even heard of fileshareing. The entire industry, from the record lables, to the radio and video stations, right on down to the to the over priced concert tours in sheds made to highjack your wallet, smells of urine.
They are trying to bend the law around to suit them, and useing my tax money to do it. Some of those laws are made to protect me, "the Consumer", from big buisness like them. As a consumer, I am allowed to complain and voice my opinion. That is a part of capitalism to, by the way, and most buisness's respond by trying to make the cosumer happy, something the members of the RIAA have failed to do for over a decade now. Just because you are content with the way things are going in the music biz, doesn't mean we have to be also, and if you were so fed up with this topic, why did you even bother to reply.