Ticketmaster--where's the outrage?
10-09-23, 09:51 PM
#176
DVD Talk Godfather & 2020 TOTY Winner
Re: Ticketmaster--where's the outrage?
It's been my experience that when I walk up to the box office and purchase tickets directly from the venue that they don't have the same fees that they do when bought through a middleman like Ticketmaster. There might be a $5 fee stuck on it or something.
I'm guessing that it's a different kind of economics involved.
I'm not sure if it's realistic to expect a business like Ticketmaster to sell a $600+ ticket for a profit margin of under 10%.
I'm guessing that it's a different kind of economics involved.
I'm not sure if it's realistic to expect a business like Ticketmaster to sell a $600+ ticket for a profit margin of under 10%.
It's like ordering a $20 pizza and seeing that the raw material of the pizza only cost the restaurant $2.65, and then the rest of the $20 is made up of fees and surcharges for food storage and safety, utilities, employee wages, facility rent, and taxes.
If you hire a contractor to build something for you, he's going to go to Lowe's or whatever and buy lumber and materials. If it costs him $800, he's probably going to bill you $1600 for those materials. And, on top of that, any surplus materials will be returned to Lowe's and you won't see a refund for any of it.
Look at a bill from a mechanic. If the parts are itemized, they will cost you at least twice as much as they would from Autozone if you walked in and bought them yourself.
Or bring your own bottle of wine into a restaurant to enjoy with your meal, and they'll charge a you a "corkage fee," essentially charging you for your own bottle of wine.
It sucks, but it's how capitalism works. Squeeze every penny they can out of you.
If you hire a contractor to build something for you, he's going to go to Lowe's or whatever and buy lumber and materials. If it costs him $800, he's probably going to bill you $1600 for those materials. And, on top of that, any surplus materials will be returned to Lowe's and you won't see a refund for any of it.
Look at a bill from a mechanic. If the parts are itemized, they will cost you at least twice as much as they would from Autozone if you walked in and bought them yourself.
Or bring your own bottle of wine into a restaurant to enjoy with your meal, and they'll charge a you a "corkage fee," essentially charging you for your own bottle of wine.
It sucks, but it's how capitalism works. Squeeze every penny they can out of you.
10-09-23, 10:09 PM
#178
DVD Talk Godfather & 2020 TOTY Winner
Re: Ticketmaster--where's the outrage?
Then Ticketmaster takes 10% (which I have no problem with - that's a commission).
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The Cow (10-09-23)
10-10-23, 09:19 AM
#179
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Ticketmaster--where's the outrage?
I don't really like big concerts. I hate the standing crowds, the late start times (if the show starts at 8, hit the fucking stage at 8...you have one job), the bullshit with opening acts (where the headliner might not start until an hour-plus in and people treat that like the actual start time so the whole first chunk of the night is just crowds wandering around while people play in the background) - nearly everything about it is exactly what I DON'T want to do with my free time.
That said, there is a huge difference between a big show with a world-famous musician and a small-venue show with an unknown artist. And the costs understandably reflect that.
However, Ticketmaster should have a flat $10 fee or something for every ticket, regardless of the face value, which is more than enough to pay the electricity bill for their automated website.
That said, there is a huge difference between a big show with a world-famous musician and a small-venue show with an unknown artist. And the costs understandably reflect that.
However, Ticketmaster should have a flat $10 fee or something for every ticket, regardless of the face value, which is more than enough to pay the electricity bill for their automated website.
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Spiderbite (10-10-23)
10-10-23, 10:04 AM
#180
Re: Ticketmaster--where's the outrage?
I'm not defending Ticketmaster but one of the reasons they can't do a flat charge is because of credit card fees. The merchant fee on $30 is a lot less than on $150 or $300. Also because all the transactions are online they probably don't see the absolute lowest rates that a card present transaction would. Their might be a premium also because of the level of fraud they have to deal with. That's where at least a few bucks goes to.
10-10-23, 10:26 AM
#181
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Re: Ticketmaster--where's the outrage?
People already complain about the fees, but they would riot if someone buying a $20 ticket was charged the same fee as someone buying a $1,000 ticket. Not to mention they wouldn't even be able to sell out small venues with $30 tickets if that ticket was now $70 after fees. They'd be pricing out a huge contingent of concert goers and it would only end up hurting the smaller and up and coming bands who wouldn't be able to get traction and exposure. The variable pricing structure works because people buying higher priced tickets subsidize the expense of the cheaper tickets, and as someone who routinely buys the more expensive tickets, I have no issue paying more.
Yes....this "automated website" that costs BILLIONS to build, maintain, and operate.
Yes....this "automated website" that costs BILLIONS to build, maintain, and operate.
10-10-23, 03:50 PM
#182
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Ticketmaster--where's the outrage?
Not to mention they wouldn't even be able to sell out small venues with $30 tickets if that ticket was now $70 after fees. They'd be pricing out a huge contingent of concert goers and it would only end up hurting the smaller and up and coming bands who wouldn't be able to get traction and exposure. The variable pricing structure works because people buying higher priced tickets subsidize the expense of the cheaper tickets, and as someone who routinely buys the more expensive tickets, I have no issue paying more.
Yes....this "automated website" that costs BILLIONS to build, maintain, and operate.
At a time of growing public pressure on the monopolistic practices of Live Nation and Ticketmaster, the ticketing giant doesn’t seem to be crumbling one bit. On Thursday, the company announced record profits, reporting a 2022 operating income up 125 percent from pre-pandemic levels to $732 million, and revenue up 44 percent to $16.7 billion.
10-10-23, 04:34 PM
#183
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Re: Ticketmaster--where's the outrage?
Why? You're paying a higher price for a closer seat. What does the fee change when the mechanics are exactly the same? I attend a lot of theater and the more expensive tickets are at the front of the venue or the balcony. But as far as I know, everyone is paying the same ticket fee.
Again, why do the higher priced tickets have different fees? The higher price gets you a better concert experience.
Again, why do the higher priced tickets have different fees? The higher price gets you a better concert experience.
Link
Gosh, I wonder how they are so profitable?
Gosh, I wonder how they are so profitable?
10-10-23, 04:50 PM
#184
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Ticketmaster--where's the outrage?
You're paying a higher price for a closer seat. What does the fee change when the mechanics are exactly the same?
The mechanics of carrying my plate from a high-end steak restaurant's kitchen to my table is the same as carrying my plate from IHOP's kitchen to my table, but the steak gets a bigger tip than the pancakes.
10-10-23, 05:01 PM
#185
DVD Talk Godfather & 2020 TOTY Winner
Re: Ticketmaster--where's the outrage?
Higher $ item usually means higher $ service even if the service is the same.
The mechanics of carrying my plate from a high-end steak restaurant's kitchen to my table is the same as carrying my plate from IHOP's kitchen to my table, but the steak gets a bigger tip than the pancakes.
The mechanics of carrying my plate from a high-end steak restaurant's kitchen to my table is the same as carrying my plate from IHOP's kitchen to my table, but the steak gets a bigger tip than the pancakes.
10-10-23, 07:09 PM
#186
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Ticketmaster--where's the outrage?
I explained that in the part you quoted. A single flat fee would make the cheapest tickets unaffordable for most of the population who is trying to buy the cheapest ticket. A $30 ticket is going to run someone around $70. You really don't strike me as the type who wants to implement regressive pricing structures.
I've also posted this in here before. They're not that profitable. $732MM profit on $16.7B in revenue is a relatively low return, and that's before they pay a dime in corporate tax. Their EBITDA Margin is under 8%. And these numbers are based on an estimated 550MM tickets sold, so they're profiting $1.33 per ticket sold, and you're proposing they reduce their fees and cap them at $10, which would put them in the red.
10-10-23, 07:35 PM
#187
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Re: Ticketmaster--where's the outrage?
Do you not see the difference in comparing a single, local, low demand theatre where they have a ticket clerk who can pull up a seating chart and actually let you select which seat you want versus an online platform serving millions of people simultaneously across thousands of different events with so much demand that it’s practically impossible to select the exact seats you want? All while also fighting off millions of automated attacks trying to buy those same tickets that legitimate fans want?
Just hope that Ticketmaster never buys your theatre or you won’t have a choice in the matter. This is where there are legitimate antitrust concerns and where people should focus their attention instead of the stupid fees. Ticketmaster has been buying more and more of these local clubs and theatres, or pressuring them into signing exclusive ticketing contracts. The pandemic just put tons of financial pressure on these small, independent venues and then Ticketmaster came in with their deep pockets forcing the venues’ hand to sign with them or sell them the distressed property.
Just hope that Ticketmaster never buys your theatre or you won’t have a choice in the matter. This is where there are legitimate antitrust concerns and where people should focus their attention instead of the stupid fees. Ticketmaster has been buying more and more of these local clubs and theatres, or pressuring them into signing exclusive ticketing contracts. The pandemic just put tons of financial pressure on these small, independent venues and then Ticketmaster came in with their deep pockets forcing the venues’ hand to sign with them or sell them the distressed property.
10-10-23, 08:55 PM
#188
Re: Ticketmaster--where's the outrage?
If Ticketmaster has to charge a service fee, it shouldn't vary due to the price of the ticket. I just don't agree with that. If I buy a $30 ticket or a $500 ticket, what Ticketmaster actually does to make that happen is exactly the same - they aren't offering any premium service. $10 per ticket is fine. The bits have to move from here to there and then send me an email.
Sounds like they need to do some restructuring, because there is nothing Ticketmaster is providing that a million other ticketing solutions can do at a fraction of the cost. When I get tickets to a touring Broadway show here in town, I go to the local box office and an actual human points at a seating chart and helps me pick my tickets. And I pay like a $5 service fee over the face value of the ticket to do that, regardless of what tier of ticket I buy. Whereas Ticketmaster would charge me $30 for nothing but access to their automated system.
Sounds like they need to do some restructuring, because there is nothing Ticketmaster is providing that a million other ticketing solutions can do at a fraction of the cost. When I get tickets to a touring Broadway show here in town, I go to the local box office and an actual human points at a seating chart and helps me pick my tickets. And I pay like a $5 service fee over the face value of the ticket to do that, regardless of what tier of ticket I buy. Whereas Ticketmaster would charge me $30 for nothing but access to their automated system.
Last edited by Kdogg; 10-10-23 at 09:04 PM.
10-10-23, 10:32 PM
#189
DVD Talk Godfather & 2020 TOTY Winner
Re: Ticketmaster--where's the outrage?
Checking AXS, I paid
Ticket cost, service charge, (handling fee x1) , percentage
Liz Phair $70, $15, ($4.90), 21%
Aces vs Libery Finals Game 2 - $12, $2.78 ($4.90) 23%
That's all I have in my AXS order history strangely besides VGK tickets which didn't cost any service fees as a season ticket holder.
Ticket cost, service charge, (handling fee x1) , percentage
Liz Phair $70, $15, ($4.90), 21%
Aces vs Libery Finals Game 2 - $12, $2.78 ($4.90) 23%
That's all I have in my AXS order history strangely besides VGK tickets which didn't cost any service fees as a season ticket holder.
10-10-23, 10:41 PM
#190
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Ticketmaster--where's the outrage?
Businesses like Ticketmaster charge what they think they can get away with, not how much a product actually costs. That is doubly so in what is primarily a monopoly market.
10-27-23, 10:18 AM
#192
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Ticketmaster--where's the outrage?
Just bought 2 AEW tickets for $40 + $40.50 in fees. Unbelievable.
10-28-23, 02:51 PM
#193
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Ticketmaster--where's the outrage?
Ticketmaster is absolute bullshit with their fees. I was buying my Bad Bunny ticket, which turned out that it had to be 4 bought minimum, and the fees changed per price range. My tickets went from their face value plus 45 dollars per tickets in fees, another few dollars in service charges and also tax on top. So in the end each ticket cost me another close to 75 dollars above ticket price. Then I perused some of the 600-1200 tickets to see that each one came with a fee between 200-300 on top per ticket. I took one 1,100 ticket to the cart to see the final tally was going to be 1,400 plus. This is criminal.
10-28-23, 04:51 PM
#194
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Ticketmaster--where's the outrage?
My son really wants to see Billy Joel before he retires/dies so I bite the bullet and did something I never do...I bought some expensive ass seats this morning. At least for me. Sting is with him and since I have always wanted to see both of them, I just am telling myself I am paying $210 for each performer to make me feel better. $105.40 in fees!
But the ticket price is ridiculous in the first place. But I can't bitch since I agreed to pay for it. I would spend that much on xmas for him anyway and that what this is for him...an xmas present.
Breakdown:
Tickets: $419.50 x2 - $839.00
Fees
Service Fee: $42.70 x2 - $85.40
Facility Charge: $7.50 x2 - $15.00
Order ProcessingFee - $5.00
Total
$944.40
But the ticket price is ridiculous in the first place. But I can't bitch since I agreed to pay for it. I would spend that much on xmas for him anyway and that what this is for him...an xmas present.
Breakdown:
Tickets: $419.50 x2 - $839.00
Fees
Service Fee: $42.70 x2 - $85.40
Facility Charge: $7.50 x2 - $15.00
Order ProcessingFee - $5.00
Total
$944.40
10-29-23, 08:46 AM
#195
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Ticketmaster--where's the outrage?
Your service fees were less per ticket than mine were for my 190 apiece tickets. My service fees were 45 apiece. And I was charged taxes on my entire purchase. Over a grand for 4 190 tickets.
10-29-23, 11:02 AM
#196
Re: Ticketmaster--where's the outrage?
It’s a sliding not fixed scale. I did some numbers up thread. Unlike the US tax code it’s not progressive so the higher tier pays a lesser percentage in fees.
10-29-23, 06:34 PM
#197
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Re: Ticketmaster--where's the outrage?
Their new “all in” pricing got me this week. I bought some Cody Jinks tickets at $306 each and the pair was $650 total. “Hm, $20 fees on a $300 ticket….not bad” I thought. Nope, that was just taxes. The tickets were $250 plus $50 in fees and then 8% tax.
10-29-23, 08:34 PM
#198
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Ticketmaster--where's the outrage?
It shouldn't be a scale at all. That is the issue. There should be a price based on where you sit, one static fee regardless of where you sit and how much you pay, and the taxes and processing fee. There is no actual service they are providing other than sticking some digital tickets into your account.
11-22-23, 02:08 PM
#200
DVD Talk Hero
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Re: Ticketmaster--where's the outrage?
Senate committee subpoenas Live Nation, Ticketmaster after months-long probe
PUBLISHED MON, NOV 20 20234:50 PM ESTUPDATED MON, NOV 20 20236:01 PM EST
Dan Mangan
@_DANMANGAN
KEY POINTS
A Senate investigative subcommittee on Monday said it has issued a subpoena to Live Nation Entertainment and its Ticketmaster subsidiary for information regarding ticket pricing and fees after a months-long probe that had not been previously announced.
The subpoena “seeks records related to Live Nation/Ticketmaster’s failure to combat artificially inflated demand fueled by bots in multiple, high-profile incidents, which resulted in consumers being charged exorbitant ticket prices,” the subcommittee’s chair, Sen. Richard Blumenthal, D-Conn., wrote in a letter to Live Nation CEO Michael Rapino.
In a statement Monday, Blumenthal said, “Live Nation has egregiously stonewalled my Subcommittee’s inquiry into its abusive consumer practices — making the subpoena necessary.”
“American consumers deserve fair ticket prices, without hidden fees or predatory charges,” said Blumenthal. “And the American public deserves to know how Ticketmaster’s unfair practices may be enabled by its misuse of monopoly power.”
A Live Nation spokesperson, in an email to CNBC, said, “Live Nation has voluntarily worked with the Subcommittee from the start, providing extensive information and holding several meetings with staff.”
“In order to provide additional information requested about artist and client compensation and other similarly sensitive matters, we’ve asked for standard confidentiality measures,” the company spokesperson said. “Thus far the Subcommittee has refused to provide such assurances, but if and when those protections are in place we will provide additional information on these issues.”
Live Nation, an event promoter, and the ticket vendor Ticketmaster now control 70% of the market for tickets and live event venues after their merger more than a decade ago.
The Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations opened its probe in March after controversy over sales glitches and prices of tickets for concerts by Taylor Swift and Bruce Springsteen, according to Blumenthal’s panel.
The new subpoena seeks documents and internal communications about “ticket pricing, fees, and resale practices as well as the company’s relationship with artists and venues,” according to the panel.
“The request covers annual financial data related to fees, the company’s recommendations for ticket pricing, business strategies regarding ticket pricing, secondary ticketing, and bots, communications relating to high-profile incidents in 2022, and customer research and surveys regarding ticket pricing and fees,” the panel said.
Blumenthal, in his letter to Rapino last week, which contained the subpoena, wrote, “Despite nearly eight months and extensive efforts to obtain voluntary compliance, Live Nation/Ticketmaster has failed to fully comply with PSI’s requests, including refusing to produce certain documents critical to the Subcommittee’s inquiry.”
The Senate Judiciary Committee this summer held a hearing about Live Nation and the lack of competition in event ticketing’s primary and secondary markets.
“I just want to dispel this notion that this is not a monopoly and then we can go from there about solutions,” said Sen. Amy Klobuchar, D-Minn., at that hearing.
PUBLISHED MON, NOV 20 20234:50 PM ESTUPDATED MON, NOV 20 20236:01 PM EST
Dan Mangan
@_DANMANGAN
KEY POINTS
- A Senate subcommittee issued a subpoena to Live Nation Entertainment and its Ticketmaster subsidiary regarding ticket pricing and fees.
- The demand for information came amid an investigation that began earlier this year which had not been previously announced.
- The probe stemmed from controversy over ticket sales for concerts by Taylor Swift and Bruce Springsteen.
A Senate investigative subcommittee on Monday said it has issued a subpoena to Live Nation Entertainment and its Ticketmaster subsidiary for information regarding ticket pricing and fees after a months-long probe that had not been previously announced.
The subpoena “seeks records related to Live Nation/Ticketmaster’s failure to combat artificially inflated demand fueled by bots in multiple, high-profile incidents, which resulted in consumers being charged exorbitant ticket prices,” the subcommittee’s chair, Sen. Richard Blumenthal, D-Conn., wrote in a letter to Live Nation CEO Michael Rapino.
In a statement Monday, Blumenthal said, “Live Nation has egregiously stonewalled my Subcommittee’s inquiry into its abusive consumer practices — making the subpoena necessary.”
“American consumers deserve fair ticket prices, without hidden fees or predatory charges,” said Blumenthal. “And the American public deserves to know how Ticketmaster’s unfair practices may be enabled by its misuse of monopoly power.”
A Live Nation spokesperson, in an email to CNBC, said, “Live Nation has voluntarily worked with the Subcommittee from the start, providing extensive information and holding several meetings with staff.”
“In order to provide additional information requested about artist and client compensation and other similarly sensitive matters, we’ve asked for standard confidentiality measures,” the company spokesperson said. “Thus far the Subcommittee has refused to provide such assurances, but if and when those protections are in place we will provide additional information on these issues.”
Live Nation, an event promoter, and the ticket vendor Ticketmaster now control 70% of the market for tickets and live event venues after their merger more than a decade ago.
The Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations opened its probe in March after controversy over sales glitches and prices of tickets for concerts by Taylor Swift and Bruce Springsteen, according to Blumenthal’s panel.
The new subpoena seeks documents and internal communications about “ticket pricing, fees, and resale practices as well as the company’s relationship with artists and venues,” according to the panel.
“The request covers annual financial data related to fees, the company’s recommendations for ticket pricing, business strategies regarding ticket pricing, secondary ticketing, and bots, communications relating to high-profile incidents in 2022, and customer research and surveys regarding ticket pricing and fees,” the panel said.
Blumenthal, in his letter to Rapino last week, which contained the subpoena, wrote, “Despite nearly eight months and extensive efforts to obtain voluntary compliance, Live Nation/Ticketmaster has failed to fully comply with PSI’s requests, including refusing to produce certain documents critical to the Subcommittee’s inquiry.”
The Senate Judiciary Committee this summer held a hearing about Live Nation and the lack of competition in event ticketing’s primary and secondary markets.
“I just want to dispel this notion that this is not a monopoly and then we can go from there about solutions,” said Sen. Amy Klobuchar, D-Minn., at that hearing.
