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Metallica rant &/or appreciation thread

Old 04-13-03, 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by cactusoly
avoid anything from Load and Reload.... Crap Crap Crap
Wrong Wrong Wrong
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Old 04-13-03, 02:13 PM
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Load and Reload are "Alteritiva"

Every album up to that point was awesome front to back. Load and Reload each have a couple decent songs surrounded by a bunch of filler material. Garage INC was good because half of it was cover songs and the rest were rereleased material from Metallica's golden (they were also covers too but still...)

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Old 04-13-03, 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by cactusoly
Load and Reload are "Alteritiva"
They are different, but are certainly not CRAP like so many "Metallica Die Hards" say they are. In fact I'd say they are better than 90% of the rock music that craps the airwaves today.
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Old 04-13-03, 02:56 PM
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True... but its like comparing ice cream.... Hogendos sp? (classic Metallica) to spoiled icecream (new Metallica) to dog crap (90% of rock today)
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Old 04-13-03, 03:01 PM
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ice cream can go spoiled?
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Old 04-13-03, 07:01 PM
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My take, as an old school Metallica fan:

Kill'em All, Ride the Lightning, Master of Puppets - All classics. I honestly can't pick songs off of them as my favorites, as I see them essentially as albums, and not collections of tracks.

...And Justice for All Could've been a contender. Suffered from poor production and few dud tracks.

Black Album The absolute nadir of their career. They go from complex arrangements to radio-friendly tracks. They toss a crappysappy "ballad" into the mix, a horrible cliche of 80s hair metal. "Nothing Else Matters" is the kind of crud kids would play at their high school prom. Sorry folks, I expect better from the guys who did "Master of Puppets" five years earlier. Also offensive to long-time fans, as the album is self-titled, implying that this is not only a "new beginning" for the band, but what came before doesn't matter. Most of the time, when bands do a self-titled album, it's their first album. It's the Metallica album for people who hated Metallica (and their fans) previously.

Load Light years ahead of the hair metal mediocrity of the black ablum, but still not up to the level of their first four efforts. It has a darker, less poppier edge. I would've preferred something like this to follow up AJFA. At least they experimented with different sounds and arrangements.

ReLoad Struck me as being unnecessary. Essentially a half-hearted rehash of Load. Feels like a rushed-out compilation of tracks that weren't good enough to go on "Load."

Garage Inc. Half of it was new, the other half previoulsy released. Die-hard Metallica fans would already own everything on the second disc, but what the hell, let's make'em pay for a double album anyway. Lars needs a new private jet.
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Old 04-13-03, 07:08 PM
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Originally posted by Josh-da-man
Garage Inc. Half of it was new, the other half previoulsy released. Die-hard Metallica fans would already own everything on the second disc, but what the hell, let's make'em pay for a double album anyway. Lars needs a new private jet.
Give me a break! How about new metallica fans that want that old material? Do you know how hard it is to track down those old covers...let alone the cost of doing it?? What's so wrong with bringing it all together in a neat package? .....Thats right nothing!!
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Old 04-13-03, 11:28 PM
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Originally posted by MJKTool
Give me a break! How about new metallica fans that want that old material? Do you know how hard it is to track down those old covers...let alone the cost of doing it?? What's so wrong with bringing it all together in a neat package? .....Thats right nothing!!
Except they're making the people who already have the previously released material buy it again at a double-album price in order to get the new material.

The solution is simple:They could've released a one-disc with the new material, and a two-disc with all of the material.

The practice of releasing one and two disc versions of the same album isn't uncommon. The latest David Bowie's GH comp did this, as well as the Cure's last GH.
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Old 04-13-03, 11:30 PM
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Since I wasn't into Metallica until the late 90's, I can't understand this intense hatred by "diehards" for everything that has been released since the black album. Obviously when listening through all of their music I noticed a change, but nothing that I would go ****ing postal over, declare them sell-outs, hang them out to dry, declare that they "turned on their fans", and proclaim that I would never listen to their music again, or if I did, it would only be by downloading, so as not to give Lars more money to buy a jet...
All of their music is awesome, new or old. The new stuff is better than a hella lot of crap that has been around the last few years.
Get over it.
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Old 04-14-03, 12:27 AM
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Actually as a long time Metallica fan I thought the Black album was great. Sure it was a slight change in style (and I could live without "Nothing Else Matters") but still an excelllent album (ranked at #3 after Puppets and Lightning) At the time I found myself defending Metallica against those that said they sold out.

and then they did sell out......

IMO it wasn't until Load and Reload that things started to turn to crap. As i stated before, they each had a couple of good songs and the rest was filler material. A Metallica album was always something you could listen to top to bottom without skipping tracks.
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Old 04-14-03, 08:32 AM
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Originally posted by Josh-da-man
Except they're making the people who already have the previously released material buy it again at a double-album price in order to get the new material.

The solution is simple:They could've released a one-disc with the new material, and a two-disc with all of the material.

The practice of releasing one and two disc versions of the same album isn't uncommon. The latest David Bowie's GH comp did this, as well as the Cure's last GH.
the problem for me as a big fan, is i would still buy both versions, thus costing me more money than if packaged together. i know that I'm not alone here as most metallifan's like myself would do the same.
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Old 04-14-03, 08:40 AM
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Originally posted by Josh-da-man


Black Album The absolute nadir of their career. They go from complex arrangements to radio-friendly tracks. They toss a crappysappy "ballad" into the mix, a horrible cliche of 80s hair metal. "Nothing Else Matters" is the kind of crud kids would play at their high school prom. Sorry folks, I expect better from the guys who did "Master of Puppets" five years earlier. Also offensive to long-time fans, as the album is self-titled, implying that this is not only a "new beginning" for the band, but what came before doesn't matter. Most of the time, when bands do a self-titled album, it's their first album. It's the Metallica album for people who hated Metallica (and their fans) previously.

[/B]
where they came from doesn't matter, you've got to be kidding me!!!!!!! very few bands value where they came from and the people whom they affect then Metallica, that is a ridiculous and unfounded comment. and they previously released a ballad called "fade to black" heard of it? it was on Ride the Lightning in case you missed it. Nothing else matters is not on the same level as ftb, but just the same the lyrics are extremely close for James, and the song was very personal, he writes for him, not you. It's his out, he's got problems ya know? He writes to help deal with them, always has, always will.

my take on the black album though. you take away sandman, make it so it never was, and nobody would be calling it a radio album. they had ONE song that was HUGE and it happened to be a sweet song with a wicked catchy hook. you take that away and things would be different for sure.

Roam, NEM, Unforgiven, Sad but True, would have never caught on the same way without the help of sandman.


Blah.
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Old 04-14-03, 08:45 AM
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Josh-da-man

furthermore, there is this band called Led Zepplin who happens to have written this song, i think it's called "stairway to heaven" and there is no doubt in my mind that "is the kind of crud kids would play at their high school prom. " clearly it's not necessarily a bad thing.

i think that LZ is pretty well known, and somewhat popular, and i think they sorta defined a generation and helped set the stage for bands like Metallica.


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Old 04-14-03, 11:29 AM
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Wow db, do you even have any feelings left in your fingers from typing all that!

db = real Metallica die hard. Someone who sticks with a band through all trials, tribulations & experimentaions!
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Old 04-14-03, 03:33 PM
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About the Jason Newsted reference... Hello he left the band because he was sick of all the BS.

Lars is a corporate sell out. Look at the whole Napster thing. I own every Metallica album out (even Load and Reload). Some I bought 2 or 3 copies of from upgrading from LP to Cassette to CD. I've seen the band umpteen times in concert. Bought the T-Shirts. Lars already has my money. If I want to download a song off napster (or now Kazaa) that is from some movie soundtrack that has a lot of crap I'd never listen to then that should be my right. To bad Lars missed his 50 cents.

As far as the new album goes I will still buy it. Its just one of those things, besides they might surprise me. The only thing is that they are not really a band anymore. Why record an album with a session bassist (Bob Rock). Why not wait until you find a replacement and then record an album. At least record the bass tracks with Rob Trujillo later. That shows that they just consider him a hired gun for the tour and not a "real" member of the band.

enough of my venting

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Old 04-14-03, 03:38 PM
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Originally posted by cactusoly
If I want to download a song off napster (or now Kazaa) that is from some movie soundtrack that has a lot of crap I'd never listen to then that should be my right. To bas Lars missed his 50 cents.
So you just admit that you endorse stealing Lars 50c?? Why is it your RIGHT to do that?
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Old 04-14-03, 03:53 PM
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I used Napster all the time back in the day, but never felt guilty because I used it to check out bands that get ZERO radio play, decide if I liked them, and then buy their stuff if I did. Best example is Opeth, whom I'll never hear on the radio - but after Napstering them, I declared them "totally awesome" and went out and bought all their CDs.

So that's my best pro-Napster argument. On the other hand, I have to realize if I were in a band I'd be a tad apprehensive about the explosion of online music-swapping. Admittedly, Lars & Co. might have done a better job framing their anti-mp3 stance in the language of "We're doing this for bands who *don't* have gold-plated toilets like we do."

As for "St. Anger," I could really care less who plays bass on it. It could be the best album ever with a session bassist, or the greatest sonic abomination ever with a "real" bassist. Bottom line: if the album "rawks," then I like it. Don't care if it's Cliff or Jason or Bob or Rob slappin' the 4-stringer.

Edit: I wrote this reply to a thread started by cactusoly that evidently got merged (Metallica Rant thread became Metallica Rant and/or Appreciation thread). So, if parts of what I said here have already been covered earlier in the (now-merged) thread, you'll know why.

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Old 04-14-03, 04:01 PM
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Originally posted by inVectiVe
I used Napster all the time back in the day, but never felt guilty because I used it to check out bands that get ZERO radio play, decide if I liked them, and then buy their stuff if I did. Best example is Opeth, whom I'll never hear on the radio - but after Napstering them, I declared them "totally awesome" and went out and bought all their CDs.

So that's my best pro-Napster argument.
And thats a good argument. It's a shame that the record companies didnt use file sharing as a usefull tool for them. But it still doesnt excuse someone or give them the right to take music without the proper people getting royalties for it. imo.
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Old 04-14-03, 05:58 PM
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Originally posted by inVectiVe
I used Napster all the time back in the day, but never felt guilty because I used it to check out bands that get ZERO radio play, decide if I liked them, and then buy their stuff if I did. Best example is Opeth, whom I'll never hear on the radio - but after Napstering them, I declared them "totally awesome" and went out and bought all their CDs.
Excellent argument. I find myself buying MORE cds with all those peer-to-peer programs around.
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Old 04-14-03, 08:10 PM
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I personally didn't like anything from Load and Reload. I'm sorry, I just didn't like them. I am all for bands changing things up, those albums were terrible IMO.

Plus they just didn't sue Napster, they were filing lawsuits against everybody.

I am going to wait and hear the new album, I am not going to run out and buy it right away. I don't want to be disappointed by them again. But I am willing to give the album a fair chance.
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Old 04-14-03, 09:54 PM
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I'll move this part of my earlier post over to this thread as it is more applicable.

------

Whew, missed this one. Glad MJK was around to hoard off the haters!!! Defender of Metallica is here.

Anyway, taking a brief look at what has been said. .......

I'm not gonna break out the load and reload arguments again, I only say that they were great albums, they just took a step away from the "norm" and gave us a new twist, trying something different. Why? Cuz they frickin wanted to. Nuff said.


Garage INC. Sure, a lot of folks had spent a bunch of money on the original release (Garage Days Revisited), only to later have
the ablility to get the same track via mainstream methods at a much lower cost. However, most die hard fans would get everything they have available anyway. Plus the 2 disc release of Garage INC was not that expensive.

So far as I'm concerned, it was an incredible compilation. You had the original Garage days, the re-revisited '87, the a bunch of b-sidesm and great Motorhead covers. Then follow that up with a full disc of NEW covers. Gimme a break, what do you want. This was an amazing release! Jeez.

cactusoly:
Sell out? Just like Jason once said, every night, at every arena, anywhere in the world. people like you don't understand that the whole point of the music business is to "sell-out," your telling me that if you were a band, your goal would not be to make it and be successfull, respected around the world, have the 5th most music sales of any band in the soundscan era? You are nuts! I have no patience for people like you, so I've addressed you and now i'm done with you. i respect someone who says that the don't like the load's, but it's hardly "crap crap crap."
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Old 04-14-03, 10:07 PM
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Originally posted by cactusoly
About the Jason Newsted reference... Hello he left the band because he was sick of all the BS.

Lars is a corporate sell out. Look at the whole Napster thing. I own every Metallica album out (even Load and Reload). Some I bought 2 or 3 copies of from upgrading from LP to Cassette to CD. I've seen the band umpteen times in concert. Bought the T-Shirts. Lars already has my money. If I want to download a song off napster (or now Kazaa) that is from some movie soundtrack that has a lot of crap I'd never listen to then that should be my right. To bas Lars missed his 50 cents.

As far as the new album goes I will still buy it. Its just one of those things, besides they might surprise me. The only thing is that they are not really a band anymore. Why record an album with a session bassist (Bob Rock). Why not wait until you find a replacement and then record an album. At least record the bass tarcks with Rob Trujillo later. That shows that they just consider him a hired gun for the tour and not a "real" member of the band.

enough of my venting

Jason left for a whole lot of reasons, but that doesn't change the context of my original post, the point is still valid. And he was and always will be a huge part (14 years) of Metallica and there growth (more as people than musicians.)

Cmon everyone uses filesharing programs like Napster, they always will. It was a battle Metallica felt the need to fight, they did, people sh*t on them and will forever because of it. They were trying to fight for something that belonged to them, there music. It is not your right to take it with out paying for it. Bottom line. But that is a whole different can of worms.

I see the beauty in programs like Napster or Kazaa, and even use them for the reasons that invective brought up. Sadly, not everyone uses them in that way and thus is the problem.

Bob Rock is not a session bassist, he is part of the Metallica family and has been with them for over 10 years, Metallica still wrote the bass parts, it's not gonna change a thing. That is a ridiculous statement. In fact, this album should have a more dynamic bass presence simply for the fact that Jason is no longer in the band. And the problems that he faced with Metallica and that Metallica faced themselves is in the past. A new beginning so to speak.

"hired gun" hardly, my god where do you come up with this nonsense? they felt that bringing someone in during the recording process could effect the flow and vibe of the album, plus they didn't want to bring someone in who didn't vibe personally and musically with the band. They auditioned several people over a period of about a month and thus Rob became the right fit. "hired gun" blah!

I'm glad you'll buy the album, I hope you like it, I really do. But you should learn a little more about them and the struggles and triumphs they've come through. In particular over the past couple of years, and then maybe you could make some arguments. For now my friend, you're just making ridiculous and unfounded jibberish based on your opinion alone.

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Old 04-14-03, 10:08 PM
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Originally posted by MJKTool
Wow db, do you even have any feelings left in your fingers from typing all that!

db = real Metallica die hard. Someone who sticks with a band through all trials, tribulations & experimentaions!
they hurt a bit now, with the new post and all

thanks!
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Old 04-15-03, 11:06 AM
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Just wanted to chime in on the file sharing discussion. I remember when it all went down that I wasn't all that upset about it. Of course I expected a band to step up and be the "friendly face" for the RIAA and take the heat. Honestly I consider file sharing like speeding. It's illegal, but everybody does it and I expect them to try and stop me. Did it bother me that Metallica was doing it? Sure it did, but they were one of the few bands with enough clout to really matter.

I remember when Metallica held an online chat to talk about the Napster thing and explain their position to the fans. It became painfully obvious during that chat that the band was being used. None of them knew what Napster really was, none of them could even really use a computer. They had lawyers and the RIAA telling them their music was being stolen and that it was bad and that soon no band would ever be able to make any money, etc. Given limited understanding of the technology I'm sure most people could be convinced of the exact same thing.

Anyways, I'll be there the day St. Anger gets released. I'm hoping for a return to the Metallica I fell in love with. The Metallica that changed my life the first time I heard Master of Puppets. I'm not expecting that but it's something I'll always hope for. I still say they've never released a bad album and I doubt my views on that will ever change.

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Old 04-15-03, 11:33 AM
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I can't believe someone opened this can of worms....again.

My take on it:

The 80's material is amazing, and I think so many people got upset with the band because everything they released up to that time seemed perfect, and when the band started to show some chinks in their armor in the 90s, the diehards left and felt betrayed that their band changed so much.

But I think you have to get over that and take each album on its own merits. If you like the older stuff, its there for you. And if you feel like something with less riffs per second, maybe pop on Load, or another band. So many people used to put Metallica on a pedastal of infallibility and have to realize that they are doing what they want, and that you're welcome to come along for the ride. If not, enjoy their older records, they are there for you.

I don't believe for a second that the band made the Loads for monetary reasons. I might be persuaded to believe the Black Album was done for that, among other, reasons, but not the Loads. They're not as polished, and they're more varied. They let Hetfield take off on all his country/blues/hard rock musical tastes and let it fly.

St. Anger may turn out to be one of their best albums yet, and it could also be their worst seller. Between the German record label saying that it's "commercial suicide" and Lars saying that he wouldn't be able to pick a single from it for radio, I think this record will not be heavy enough to appease the metallers and diehards, but will be too aggressive and off-tempo for the radio crowd. The reviews are compelling though, I'll be getting it for sure on June 10th.

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