Is it the greatest movie ever? Well it's not Brazil, so no it is not.

Is it one of THE greatest movies ever? Without question. It's in my Top 5 (at #4). The Godfather is outstanding cinema. The fact that it emerged as anywhere NEAR as great as it is, is an absolute miracle. Francis Ford Coppola and Robert Evans constantly butting heads threatened to derail everything.

Those are factors that people who are educated about film take into consideration when they talk about the greatest films of all time.

Well, this is what I mean: It's 2022, so that means the British Film Institute is going to publish their new list of the Greatest Films of All Time. That's the kind of conversation I am referring to, and the kind of conversation I presume this thread was intended to address.

Look, if every thread on this forum that brings up the subject of film quality is just supposed to be thread where people list off movies they personally enjoy, then what's the point? That's just a couple steps above how a child will always tell you that the last movie they saw was the best one they ever saw, imo.

Oh, and judgments of artistic merit, while subjective, are made within the context of agreed upon aesthetic principles. If someone wants to challenge those principles, they have to defend their POV if they want to enter "the conversation" . . . and, no, by conversation I do not mean a series of posts on an internet forum.

I consider it one of the greatest films ever made. Part II is even better.

I need to understand this. Are you 'laughing me out of the room'? Or agreeing that Sigmund is the greatest and thusly dismissing the statement that such an opinion would be laughed out of the room? A lot is riding on your answer.

Lmao.

I'm not defending my opinion with objective facts.

Dawn is superbly written, well acted and the first 10 minutes hit even harder with the pandemic. The man was a master of horror, but also brought in social commentary like no other.

I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion. Because no one would change mine.

Godfather is based on a book. Loses points for that.

A movie with a stellar screenplay that's well acted and impactful, and with social commentary to boot.

Wow, I guess that means Power of the Dog is the GOAT. No, wait, that's based on a book.

CODA is the GOAT! Nope, that's based on another movie, which is probably worse than a book.

Belfast must be the GOAT.

Don't take it so personally. For someone who goes on and on about "the conversation," it seems like you want to shut down any conversation critical of the film.

Godfather has a 97% RT. Dawn is at 94.

I understand my opinion isn't the popular one, but we're acting like I'm saying Jason X is better than Halloween lol

Greatest film of all-time? No

One of the greatest films ever made? Yes

And this is coming from someone whose father named them after the Director of this film

That is not true, and actually that is a complete misreading of my comments. I have never once posted anything saying that I thought The Godfather was the GOAT, or that someone who does not think that it is GOAT is wrong.

You clearly do not understand how the numbers on RT work.

No, you just got pissy someone jokingly docked it points for being an adaptation instead of wholly original. Shouldn't originality be a factor when considering the "greatness" of a work?

And also, just for clarity, do you think The Godfather is the GOAT? If not, what do you think is?

Your dad named you Ford?

If I got "pissy," which I don't think I did, it was in reaction to the ludicrous suggestion that a movie's quality would be devalued because it was based on a book.

How does one define originality? The Godfather is based on a novel. Raging Bull is based on a man's life. Citizen Kane is a fictionalized version of a real man's life. Star Wars is based on old Flash Gordon serials and Kurosawa. The Searchers is based on a real life incident and relies heavily on the tropes of the Western genre. The Wizard of Oz is based on Baum's stories, but the music is all original. Singing in the Rain has an original story, but the songs are all from the MGM catalog.

I do not think The Godfather is the GOAT.

Mabye, similar to quality, on a scale? Something based on a book already has a plot, structure, dialogue, etc. to pull from. A film based on a real life has real events to pull from, and maybe some select quotes, but still has to build a plot, structure, create additional scenes, dialogue, etc. to present it. A film "inspired" by previous works has maybe some tropes, some settings, etc, but has to build a lot from scratch. And with musicals, as you point out, sometimes the plot isn't original, but the music is, or vice-versa.

What do you think is? What do you have to back up your opinion?

Obviously I'm not taking this "debate" seriously. Because I don't think these responses are serious.

The fact that Dawn has social commentary that's not only relevant, but also even more so relevant is something special.

But for me, the GOAT movie is the combo of being an actual good movie, and personal preference. Both of which are subjective. And anyone else's goat is exactly the same. Subjective. We can say Michael Jordan is the GOAT, but there are people making the case for LeBron, and sure I don't agree, but who am I to say they're wrong?

That's my last post on this subject. If you want to discuss more, make a GOAT thread, or (even better) a Dawn thread

So let's talk about the best Godfather of all time (besides me, according to my nephew) Tickets are $5 at select theaters now. I wish I had the time to spend there, or else I'd deeply consider going.

I looked up the current poll, from 2012, and the fact that the poll is redone every 10 years, and the top spot was changed to a film that was more than 10 years old perfectly illustrates how ultimately subjective all this is:
https://www.bfi.org.uk/sight-and-sou...films-all-time
Nothing about the films Vertigo and Citizen Kane changed between 2002 and 2012, just people's subjective opinions of them.

The Godfather is loaded with social commentary. It's about capitalism in its purist form, competition for markets without government interference.

I think there's zero point in crowning or really even debating "greatest film ever made". Is there a greatest painting ever made? Greatest song? What matters is your personal relationship to the work.

"Greatest" is too granular. I can see labeling it "great," or maybe even "one of the greatest," since that can mean anywhere from 2 to 2000 films are at the same level. But there seems to be a human urge to quantify everything, as well as seek outside validation for one's opinions.

I'm more of a Goodfellas guy.

I mean I said it belongs to my top 25, and Alien is top 5-10 and I had to give specific reasons as to why I felt that way, and use facts...haha

As I have posted, what the GOAT is would be the subject for a conversation . . . a conversation had in good faith with people who were dedicated to taking the subject seriously and appreciate the history and artistry of film-making, in addition to enjoying movies as entertainment.

I don't feel compelled to name a personal pick because this thread is not titled "What do you think the GOAT film is?" It is asking if The Godfather is the GOAT. I don't think it is. I don't think The Godfather is greater than Citizen Kane, for example, as a one-to-one comparison. I could support the idea that the one-two punch of The Godfather and The Godfather Part II could constitute the American GOAT, but then if you are making "The Saga" a single entity, don't you have to add in GF III? And now GOAT is definitely off the table.

Everything you said is absolutely true, except you are ignoring whose subjective opinions are being represented. Which has really been my point all along, if you were paying attention.

You can give the opinion of professional critics more weight if you want, but you don't know based just on a list of scores if they actually evaluated based on the criteria you laid out, and it doesn't make their combined and collated opinion authoritative. If you think Vertigo is the greatest movie ever just because a poll from 2012 said so, you should try to improve your self confidence and attain more independence of thought.