View Poll Results: Is the Godfather the greatest movie ever?
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The Godfather turns 50…greatest ever?
03-22-22, 02:24 PM
#76
DVD Talk Hero
Re: The Godfather turns 50…greatest ever?
Like don't get me wrong, it's important to discuss merits of films (and other works of art). I DO think The Godfather should be preserved by Congress, even though I don't actually like the movie. So should a copy of like, Guernica. I do think it's odd that there ARE so many lists of "best films ever made". Probably because it's a young medium.
Paintings are hard to see. There is only one each of the great paintings, frequently on another continent. They don't reproduce well in print, and certainly not well on the internet. I haven't seen Guernica by Picasso, but I know that it's the size of a wall and it has a depth of paint that won't show up in any flat reproduction. Without having been to Spain to see it in person, I can't judge it.
As opposed to paintings, nearly everyone can form an opinion about a film.
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B5Erik (03-27-22)
03-22-22, 03:07 PM
#78
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
03-22-22, 03:23 PM
#79
03-23-22, 04:13 PM
#80
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
03-24-22, 06:15 PM
#82
Re: The Godfather turns 50…greatest ever?
“Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.”
In the original script (and book), the line was just “Leave the gun.” When it came time to film the scene, Richard Castellano, who played Clemenza, improvised “take the cannoli” based on a suggestion from his onscreen and real-life wife, Ardell Sheridan, to riff on an earlier scene where she had asked him to pick up the dessert.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/ne...e-look-873073/
In the original script (and book), the line was just “Leave the gun.” When it came time to film the scene, Richard Castellano, who played Clemenza, improvised “take the cannoli” based on a suggestion from his onscreen and real-life wife, Ardell Sheridan, to riff on an earlier scene where she had asked him to pick up the dessert.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/ne...e-look-873073/
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OldBoy (03-24-22)
03-24-22, 09:36 PM
#83
DVD Talk Legend
Re: The Godfather turns 50…greatest ever?
Also, the plural is cannoli, the singular is cannolo.
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Dr. DVD (03-26-22)
03-27-22, 10:30 AM
#84
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: The Godfather turns 50…greatest ever?
What "The Godfather" means to Hollywood - CBS Mornings
The making of "The Godfather" - CBS Sunday Morning
03-29-22, 07:29 PM
#85
Inane Thread Master, 2018 TOTY
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Re: The Godfather turns 50…greatest ever?
Just finished this magnum opus after having on dvr for 7 years. It was quite a 7:01 hour experience. Wasn’t exactly chronological as one, what I assume was outtake from G1, played toward end of G2. Wish it had been inserted after the young Vito scenes in beginning. Still, great fucking movies.
10-01-23, 08:28 AM
#86
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: The Godfather turns 50…greatest ever?
Okay - believe it not I just watched this for the first time.
I know it’s always on “best of” lists, but can’t say I had any preconceived notions based on that. We did just watch The Offer, which I think did influence me. In that series the Coppola character is super passionate about the story arch of Michael. For me, that didn’t come across in the film.
In general, I thought it was good but not great. Observations:
What didn’t work for me was Michael’s arch. I certainly got his disinterest in the family business but it came across like apathy vs some moral objection where he was “on the other side”. Then out of nowhere he volunteers to off the two guys because….he’s the only one they’ll let into the peace negotiation?! Then on top of that he doesn’t seem to have any guilt or remorse.
Flash forward to Italy, and what was meant to feel like forever in banishment came across like a few weeks. He’s still sporting a black eye, and so in the span of…weeks (?) meets this girl, sets up a huge wedding and gets married?! Plus, after the car luggage situation, the guy runs off and that’s it? So many questions, let along we don’t see Michael’s reactions and impact on him.
Next thing we know he’s been back for over a year, rolls up to blonde who hasn’t heard from him in something like 2 years, and she just up and marries him?
Lastly, the dynamic of the families was very muddy at the end. There were more than 5 and it was difficult to tell who was who and what was what. Am I right in saying Vito figured out the guy at the head of the table was behind the drugs plan and offer to begin with? The guy across the table’s son was who originally made the offer, but was just a front?
Also, another smallish niggle - the husband of the sister goes off on her, she calls up the house and Sonny bolts to go confront him. Tom tells the other car to follow which leaves within seconds. However, by the time the toll scene happens they’re easily behind by a minute. Similarly, that was all a ruse that Michael figured out at the end? How else would the group have known he was headed that way?
I’ll probably finish the series at some point as I’m curious since the second is touted as better than the first, but I felt like the second half of the first and weak plot points (which is ironic since it’s near 3 hours) let it down.
I know it’s always on “best of” lists, but can’t say I had any preconceived notions based on that. We did just watch The Offer, which I think did influence me. In that series the Coppola character is super passionate about the story arch of Michael. For me, that didn’t come across in the film.
In general, I thought it was good but not great. Observations:
- I honestly haven’t seen a lot of films with the actors, so I was mostly just able to enjoy the story and characters.
- It didn’t particularly feel dated and like I was watching a 70s film.
- I liked Brando, but was disappointed how little he ended up being in it.
- The sister and blond wife were the weakest parts for me. The sister especially was cringe.
- Genuinely liked the first 90 minutes, then it started to lose me.
What didn’t work for me was Michael’s arch. I certainly got his disinterest in the family business but it came across like apathy vs some moral objection where he was “on the other side”. Then out of nowhere he volunteers to off the two guys because….he’s the only one they’ll let into the peace negotiation?! Then on top of that he doesn’t seem to have any guilt or remorse.
Flash forward to Italy, and what was meant to feel like forever in banishment came across like a few weeks. He’s still sporting a black eye, and so in the span of…weeks (?) meets this girl, sets up a huge wedding and gets married?! Plus, after the car luggage situation, the guy runs off and that’s it? So many questions, let along we don’t see Michael’s reactions and impact on him.
Next thing we know he’s been back for over a year, rolls up to blonde who hasn’t heard from him in something like 2 years, and she just up and marries him?
Lastly, the dynamic of the families was very muddy at the end. There were more than 5 and it was difficult to tell who was who and what was what. Am I right in saying Vito figured out the guy at the head of the table was behind the drugs plan and offer to begin with? The guy across the table’s son was who originally made the offer, but was just a front?
Also, another smallish niggle - the husband of the sister goes off on her, she calls up the house and Sonny bolts to go confront him. Tom tells the other car to follow which leaves within seconds. However, by the time the toll scene happens they’re easily behind by a minute. Similarly, that was all a ruse that Michael figured out at the end? How else would the group have known he was headed that way?
I’ll probably finish the series at some point as I’m curious since the second is touted as better than the first, but I felt like the second half of the first and weak plot points (which is ironic since it’s near 3 hours) let it down.
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Ash Ketchum (10-04-23)
10-01-23, 10:00 AM
#87
Re: The Godfather turns 50…greatest ever?
Solozzo was not a front. He was an outside party who wanted to go into business with whomever would support his operation. He went to the Corleones first because of their political connections. When Vito refused, but Sonny expressed interest during the meet, he then thought that if Sonny was the boss, he would agree to the plan, and orchestrated the hit on Vito.
You are correct that the situation with Carlo and the phone call was a ruse to get Sonny to rush over to Connie’s and get ambushed, which Michael and company later figured out.
You are correct that the situation with Carlo and the phone call was a ruse to get Sonny to rush over to Connie’s and get ambushed, which Michael and company later figured out.
Last edited by bluetoast; 10-01-23 at 10:07 AM.
10-01-23, 10:24 AM
#88
DVD Talk Legend
Re: The Godfather turns 50…greatest ever?
I'm no Godfather expert and haven't seen it in a while, but I'll offer some thoughts.
I believe Michael's motivation was seeking vengeance for the hit on Vito. Whatever Mike felt about the family business, apathy or opposition, he loved his father, and wanted retribution for the attempt to murder Vito.
I know Michael was supposed to have been in SIcily for a couple of years. I think his engagement and marriage to Apollonia only seems hurried from a contemporary perspective. Michael believes that he is settling in Italy, and so he makes the practical decision to get on with making his life there, which means marrying and having children. In the 1940s, people didn't wait around until they were into their 30s to settle down. He met the most beautiful woman around, and she was going to be a traditional wife for him, like his mother was to Vito. Plus, remember, no monkey business until after the wedding!
Remember also, that this is based on a best-selling novel, so there would be aspects of the story that were included in the book that had to be skipped over to keep the plot of the movie going forward. Did the guy who ran off get away or was he caught later on? Who gives a shit. How did Michael feel after Apollonia's murder? I imagine he was distraught, but that doesn't matter to the plot of the movie.
And about the black eye:
Incorrectly regarded as goofs. The punch to Michael's face broke his cheek bone which gave him a permanent black eye until he got back to America and had surgery to fix it
Well, that's Kay, who was played by Diane Keaton
Again, this is 1950. Kay's life is gonna be becoming a wife and mother. We don't know almost anything about her in the movie, but she is a beautiful woman in NYC with no prospects for marriage. Seems like she has been holding a torch for Michael, so yeah, she takes him back quickly. And let's be honest, whatever the Corleone family is, Michael's family is wealthy, Kay knows that there are practical reasons to marry Michael.
But honestly, this is a movie made in 1970, and Kay is a woman living in 1950. It probably didn't occur to anyone that a female character had to have her own agency and motivations. She was there to represent that rebellious streak in Michael that he would not pursue a traditional Italian wife. That even when he returned from Sicily and accepted his role in the family business, there was a part of him that was for himself, and that was Kay the blonde WASP.
If you want to think that way about time, you will never be able to accept any movie or TV show, ever.
After being left out of the Corleone family business, and then beaten by Sonny, Carlo betrays Sonny to Barzini. They know they have to draw Sonny out of the house, and if he comes rushing to help Connie, he will go to the toll booth.
It was Vito that figured out that Barzini was behind it all (IDK how) and he told Michael. That's how Mike knew that Abe Vigoda was the traitor at Vito's funeral, because Vito figured it all out.
What didn’t work for me was Michael’s arch. I certainly got his disinterest in the family business but it came across like apathy vs some moral objection where he was “on the other side”. Then out of nowhere he volunteers to off the two guys because….he’s the only one they’ll let into the peace negotiation?! Then on top of that he doesn’t seem to have any guilt or remorse.
Flash forward to Italy, and what was meant to feel like forever in banishment came across like a few weeks. He’s still sporting a black eye, and so in the span of…weeks (?) meets this girl, sets up a huge wedding and gets married?! Plus, after the car luggage situation, the guy runs off and that’s it? So many questions, let along we don’t see Michael’s reactions and impact on him.
Remember also, that this is based on a best-selling novel, so there would be aspects of the story that were included in the book that had to be skipped over to keep the plot of the movie going forward. Did the guy who ran off get away or was he caught later on? Who gives a shit. How did Michael feel after Apollonia's murder? I imagine he was distraught, but that doesn't matter to the plot of the movie.
And about the black eye:
Incorrectly regarded as goofs. The punch to Michael's face broke his cheek bone which gave him a permanent black eye until he got back to America and had surgery to fix it
Next thing we know he’s been back for over a year, rolls up to blonde who hasn’t heard from him in something like 2 years, and she just up and marries him?
Again, this is 1950. Kay's life is gonna be becoming a wife and mother. We don't know almost anything about her in the movie, but she is a beautiful woman in NYC with no prospects for marriage. Seems like she has been holding a torch for Michael, so yeah, she takes him back quickly. And let's be honest, whatever the Corleone family is, Michael's family is wealthy, Kay knows that there are practical reasons to marry Michael.
But honestly, this is a movie made in 1970, and Kay is a woman living in 1950. It probably didn't occur to anyone that a female character had to have her own agency and motivations. She was there to represent that rebellious streak in Michael that he would not pursue a traditional Italian wife. That even when he returned from Sicily and accepted his role in the family business, there was a part of him that was for himself, and that was Kay the blonde WASP.
Also, another smallish niggle - the husband of the sister goes off on her, she calls up the house and Sonny bolts to go confront him. Tom tells the other car to follow which leaves within seconds. However, by the time the toll scene happens they’re easily behind by a minute. Similarly, that was all a ruse that Michael figured out at the end? How else would the group have known he was headed that way?
After being left out of the Corleone family business, and then beaten by Sonny, Carlo betrays Sonny to Barzini. They know they have to draw Sonny out of the house, and if he comes rushing to help Connie, he will go to the toll booth.
It was Vito that figured out that Barzini was behind it all (IDK how) and he told Michael. That's how Mike knew that Abe Vigoda was the traitor at Vito's funeral, because Vito figured it all out.
10-04-23, 06:03 AM
#90
10-04-23, 06:41 AM
#91
Re: The Godfather turns 50…greatest ever?
Says the person who has already written dozens of posts on the thread over several days.
And I'm not the only one that is participating in the discussion, and would be the audience, and potential responder. So even if you think I'd argue in bad faith, that's no reason to abstain from giving your own opinion.
BTW, I don't "twist your words," I'm responding to them in the way I interpret them. If that's not what you meant, you can clarify, but you tend to just abandon the argument and complain about me being unfair somehow, like how you dropped the argument about whether originality can be a factor in determining greatness.
To be clear, this is what you originally wrote, after Kurt D wrote that GOAT is not subjective at all, and I responded that it was subjective, and you responded to both posts.
My point is that what you consider an "objective element" is not actually easy to actually quantify and determine in an objective manner, and even if it was, is ultimately used subjectively to determine greatness, with different people giving it different weight in their determinations, if they consider it at all. You subsequently tried to break out other "objective" elements that have the same issues, if they were even actually objective at all, and not really subjective things you didn't recognize as such. You've tried to defer to experts/critics and/or the consensus of such, which is intellectually lazy and showing a misunderstanding that a consensus of a subjective opinion does not make that opinion objective. It's just been flawed arguments all the way down. And you've been arguing this for days and complaining about it, instead of doing what you claim you'd rather be doing. Don't blame me for engaging with you on the aspects you keep posting about.
And I'm not the only one that is participating in the discussion, and would be the audience, and potential responder. So even if you think I'd argue in bad faith, that's no reason to abstain from giving your own opinion.
BTW, I don't "twist your words," I'm responding to them in the way I interpret them. If that's not what you meant, you can clarify, but you tend to just abandon the argument and complain about me being unfair somehow, like how you dropped the argument about whether originality can be a factor in determining greatness.
To be clear, this is what you originally wrote, after Kurt D wrote that GOAT is not subjective at all, and I responded that it was subjective, and you responded to both posts.
My point is that what you consider an "objective element" is not actually easy to actually quantify and determine in an objective manner, and even if it was, is ultimately used subjectively to determine greatness, with different people giving it different weight in their determinations, if they consider it at all. You subsequently tried to break out other "objective" elements that have the same issues, if they were even actually objective at all, and not really subjective things you didn't recognize as such. You've tried to defer to experts/critics and/or the consensus of such, which is intellectually lazy and showing a misunderstanding that a consensus of a subjective opinion does not make that opinion objective. It's just been flawed arguments all the way down. And you've been arguing this for days and complaining about it, instead of doing what you claim you'd rather be doing. Don't blame me for engaging with you on the aspects you keep posting about.
A little late but thank you for this. I rather enjoyed the ass whooping you dished out. My favorite part was when he knew he was in over his head to the degree that he started quoting Mr T.
10-04-23, 07:37 AM
#92
Re: The Godfather turns 50…greatest ever?
IMHO, The Godfather is one of the worst films ever (not as bad as Citizen Kane but close). I've not liked it since seeing it during the original release. Lots of hype for nothing but a rather generic soap opera wrapped around a crime family core. There are dozens of much better 30s/40s noir/crime/mob films.
10-04-23, 10:06 AM
#93
DVD Talk Legend
Re: The Godfather turns 50…greatest ever?
IMHO, The Godfather is one of the worst films ever (not as bad as Citizen Kane but close). I've not liked it since seeing it during the original release. Lots of hype for nothing but a rather generic soap opera wrapped around a crime family core. There are dozens of much better 30s/40s noir/crime/mob films.
When you know that The Godfather and Citizen Kane are almost unanimously cited as two of the best or most important films of all time, and they are considered two of cinema's greatest artistic achievements, but you personally don't like them, why isn't your conclusion that there is something wrong with you?
Again, I'm honestly curious about the psychology. If I know that almost every human being who has ever tasted chocolate ice cream thinks it is delightful and delicious, but I think it tastes like shit, then I would conclude that I have a problem.
10-04-23, 10:26 AM
#94
Re: The Godfather turns 50…greatest ever?
I don't understand this either. There are a lot of people who can't seem to acknowledge a film may still be good even if they don't like it or it doesn't work for them. There are plenty of films I don't like that I have no problem saying they may be good films.
10-04-23, 11:02 AM
#96
DVD Talk Hero
Re: The Godfather turns 50…greatest ever?
Then on top of that he doesn’t seem to have any guilt or remorse.
10-04-23, 11:10 AM
#97
DVD Talk Legend
Re: The Godfather turns 50…greatest ever?
It's about holding an opinion that is so at variance with the established norms for understanding and appreciating American cinema, that I don't understand the willingness or desire to voice that opinion.
If someone doesn't like The Godfather, then they don't like The Godfather. But why would you advertise that?
10-04-23, 11:13 AM
#98
DVD Talk Legend
Re: The Godfather turns 50…greatest ever?
10-04-23, 01:25 PM
#99
Re: The Godfather turns 50…greatest ever?
I’m sure most know the seminal original turns 50 this year. Certainly 4Kers know with the new release. Any marathons planned?
I’ve had the “epic” version that aired on HBO in 2015. Yes, 7 years on dvr. Think I’m gonna give it a go. Then Coda…Certainly not in one sitting. But, what better time.
So you think it’s the greatest movie ever? Is Citizen Kane? Other? (Whole nother thread). Godfather, I know on many lists, but there’s so many lists. I’m going to reserve judgement until after this chronological version or whatever. Curious to see and wish it would be a physical release.
How do you feel about The Godfather (1972)?
I’ve had the “epic” version that aired on HBO in 2015. Yes, 7 years on dvr. Think I’m gonna give it a go. Then Coda…Certainly not in one sitting. But, what better time.
So you think it’s the greatest movie ever? Is Citizen Kane? Other? (Whole nother thread). Godfather, I know on many lists, but there’s so many lists. I’m going to reserve judgement until after this chronological version or whatever. Curious to see and wish it would be a physical release.
How do you feel about The Godfather (1972)?
10-04-23, 02:07 PM
#100
Re: The Godfather turns 50…greatest ever?
The part of your opinion that I personally take issue with is that the Godfather is one of the worst movies of all time. And apparently Citizen Kane is even worse! That's quite a few degrees beyond "I don't like these movies". I mean, even if you hated the rest of them, the cinematography alone in both would seem to disqualify them from being anywhere in the ballpark of the worst movies of all time.