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Coyote vs Acme (2024)

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Coyote vs Acme (2024)

Old 11-10-23, 08:58 PM
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re: Coyote vs Acme (2024)

Someone should leak footage like Deadpool. Force WB's hand.
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Old 11-10-23, 09:03 PM
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re: Coyote vs Acme (2024)

Originally Posted by Abob Teff
Today, Warner Brothers announced a new business model. At a press junket, an unnamed source spoke on the condition of anonymity: "We are going to green light any project a filmmaker wants to make, but we will never release another movie! It's brilliant! No marketing costs, no distribution costs . . . just the government paying us not to make movies that we made! Rather than announcing release dates, we will announce destruction dates. Dune 2 . . . you're going to make us a fortune!"
Funny, I was making a similar joke to a co-worker today. It's like a real world, modern day reimagining of The Producers.
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Old 11-11-23, 06:04 AM
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re: Coyote vs Acme (2024)

Just another disappointment for Wile E Coyote, he never gets a break
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Old 11-11-23, 09:02 AM
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re: Coyote vs Acme (2024)

Originally Posted by Jaymole
Just another disappointment for Wile E Coyote, he never gets a break
As well as being another case where we can’t see John Cena.
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Old 11-11-23, 11:03 AM
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re: Coyote vs Acme (2024)

Who knew that WB was actually a subsidiary of Acme?

It's time for Anti-movie-iacs
And we're Zazlov to the MAX
So just sit back and relax
Your empty screen will collapse
We're Anti-movie-acs!
Come join the Warner Brothers (and all their tax write-offs)
Just for profit, we make movies on the Warner movie lot
We lock films in the tower whenever they get caught
The tax breaks we produce and the films we make vamoose, and now you know the plot!
We're Anti-movie-acs!
Zaz is smart, and Gunn jokes about a fart
Safran packs away the flicks
'Cause Tsujihara wagged his dick
We're Anti-movie-acs!


On a more serious note, SlashFilm brought up a really good point that I had not considered: this hurts all the people who worked on this film. While they did get paid for working on it, a big part of getting your next gig is the work you have previously done. Especially for "newer" workers who are trying to establish their place in the industry, this prevents their work from being seen.
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Old 11-11-23, 11:06 AM
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re: Coyote vs Acme (2024)

Originally Posted by Abob Teff
Today, Warner Brothers announced a new business model. At a press junket, an unnamed source spoke on the condition of anonymity: "We are going to green light any project a filmmaker wants to make, but we will never release another movie! It's brilliant! No marketing costs, no distribution costs . . . just the government paying us not to make movies that we made! Rather than announcing release dates, we will announce destruction dates. Dune 2 . . . you're going to make us a fortune!"

If they tried to bury Dune Part 2, I’d take some inspiration from Muad’ib himself and go on a jihad against WB.
Old 11-11-23, 02:30 PM
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re: Coyote vs Acme (2024)

If they're are able to essentially bury these movies as a write-off, then they should have to hand over the entirety of the production so that some of that write-off can be recouped.
Old 11-12-23, 09:43 PM
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re: Coyote vs Acme (2024)

Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ
WB can fuck right off with their tax bullshit.
Originally Posted by Dan
If studios are going to write off their movies, they should also be forced to forfeit all of the raw material and edited footage to the public domain or library of congress or whatever. Taxpayers are essentially footing the bill for these decisions.
I don't understand these tax write offs anymore. Did something change in tax code or something? Or more likely just creative overpriced lawyers finding loopholes. I've never heard of shelving entire projects like this just for a tax write off and now it's happening regularly. I mean how can they claim something as a loss if they never even released it? Shouldn't they have to release it first and subtract it's earnings from it's production cost to come up with a true profit loss?

So far we have Batgirl, this movie, a bunch of things from Disney+ that were removed from the service (or did that have to do with residuals), Star Trek Prodigy possibly, and the Star Wars hotel. That one makes the least sense to me. How can you open a physical attraction and operate it for a year and then close it and receive a tax write off?

Originally Posted by dsa_shea
If they're are able to essentially bury these movies as a write-off, then they should have to hand over the entirety of the production so that some of that write-off can be recouped.
I agree. It's costing the tax payers money. If that's the case why don't they give it to the government to try to recoup some of the costs. Yeah Batgirl brought to you by the IRS. The Star Wars hotel staffed by IRS auditors. Either way it seems really weird.
Old 11-12-23, 09:44 PM
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re: Coyote vs Acme (2024)

Originally Posted by milo bloom
I saw this a day or so ago and I still can't think of what to write. I grew up on Looney Tunes. We didn't go to church, cartoons like this were my holy texts. I hated the Space Jam movies and generally don't like any mixed type movies (Roger Rabbit is an exception because it leans into the concept) but this concept here sounds kinda fun.
If they keep the 'toon characters as animated, like in the classic style, with some fully animated sequences, it could be interesting.
Originally Posted by milo bloom
Agreed with the public domain idea, I'm not even a fan of John Cena or the live action hybrid Looney Tunes stuff, but if it's getting good reviews then it needs to be seen.
Wait how did you see this movie 18 months ago? How was it?
Old 11-13-23, 12:33 AM
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re: Coyote vs Acme (2024)

Holy shit, the movie has potentially been saved!
Old 11-13-23, 04:35 AM
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re: Coyote vs Acme (2024)

I guess Netflix or Amazon might scoop it up.
Old 11-13-23, 11:45 AM
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re: Coyote vs Acme (2024)

EXCLUSIVE: Screenings are being set up this week for streamers Amazon Prime, Apple and Netflix to check out and potentially acquire Warner Bros‘ axed Looney Tunes movie Coyote Vs. Acme after the studio’s phone ran off the hook the entire weekend from angry filmmakers and talent reps over their third feature film kill after Batgirl and Scoob Holiday Haunt! The more egregious Hollywood sin here with Coyote vs. Acme is that it’s a finished film, that was intended for a theatrical release.

Of those kicking the tires, even though no deals have been drafted, I hear Amazon is a leading contender given the fact that its Courtenay Valenti, the Head of Film, Streaming and Theatrical for Amazon Studios and MGM, was a big champion and lynchpin for the movie while she was at Warner Bros. All of this boils down to Jen Salke’s sign-off I understand. During the pandemic Amazon Prime acquired Sony’s family titles Hotel Transylvania 4 and Cinderella among other movies. Amazon has been known to take finished films off the table with $100M and turn them into events for the streamer.

With the actors strike just ending and everyone–streamers and the theatrical schedule– in need of product, it seems foolish to have a studio like Warners live a branded asset like Coyote vs. Acme lying around and taking a $30M take write-off on the $70M production. With Amazon now in the theatrical game, it will be interesting to see if Warner Bros actually allows them to theatrically release Coyote vs. Acme since the Burbank, CA lot is too cheap to do so given their financial dire straits.

Amazon is also a great landing pad for Coyote vs. Acme as the studio has three upcoming movies with its star John Cena.
https://deadline.com/2023/11/coyote-...on-1235601190/
Old 11-13-23, 12:02 PM
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re: Coyote vs Acme (2024)

Maybe there's some reason this isn't allowed, but it would be hilarious if another theatrical distributor bought it and it blew up at the box office while WB execs had to sit and watch.
Old 11-13-23, 12:10 PM
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re: Coyote vs Acme (2024)

At this point I am just thrilled we will get a chance to see this.
Like I said, all the word on Batgirl was that "this is un-releasable", but this is supposed to be pretty good, so why not let us see it? Too bad the also-killed Scooby Doo movie can't be revived as well.
Old 11-13-23, 12:28 PM
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re: Coyote vs Acme (2024)

It is probably best that it remained shelved. As stupid as kids are today there will be those who drop an anvil on their little brother's head or tie their sister to a train track after watching it.
Old 11-13-23, 12:42 PM
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re: Coyote vs Acme (2024)

Very exciting to see a release could happen.
Old 11-13-23, 12:50 PM
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re: Coyote vs Acme (2024)

Oh this could be released? Eh, I’ve lost interest in seeing it now.

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Old 11-13-23, 01:05 PM
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re: Coyote vs Acme (2024)

Originally Posted by tanman
I don't understand these tax write offs anymore. Did something change in tax code or something? Or more likely just creative overpriced lawyers finding loopholes. I've never heard of shelving entire projects like this just for a tax write off and now it's happening regularly. I mean how can they claim something as a loss if they never even released it? Shouldn't they have to release it first and subtract it's earnings from it's production cost to come up with a true profit loss?
Tax codes changes every year, but I don't know of anything specific that's changed regarding this.

I'm not familiar with film industry accounting standards, but from what I've read, there's certain amortization of expenses related to production costs that gets dragged out for 10-15 years as the company recognizes revenue from the film. So they've already spent $70MM to make the film. That's a sunk cost, that money has been spent and is gone. If they release it as was originally planned, they have to amortize that $70MM over the next 10-15 years. So if they released the film in late 2023, they would start expensing that $70MM against revenues in year one, and then finish expensing the last dollar somewhere between 2033 or 2038. I would expect this is accelerated and not straight line, so an example scenario might have expenses of $35MM in 2023-2024 when they receive the bulk of revenues from the theatrical release, $5MM each of the next five years as they rely on physical sales and streaming, and then $1.1MM over the next nine years as the movie's popularity has waned. By shelving the movie completely, they get to expense the entire $70MM in 2023. This creates a scenario where they rely on Time Value of Money calculations involving projected inflation rates and projected future federal and state corporate tax rates and determined that it's favorable to expense the full $70MM in 2023 using their marginal tax rate to reduce their tax liability by $30MM than to drag it out over 15 years.

You also have to remember that it's not just saving the company $30MM, but they're also not spending $100MM on marketing the movie and by not releasing it, they're not paying any bonuses based on actual performance of the movie, and they're not paying theaters any commissions for tickets sold.

Last edited by John Galt; 11-13-23 at 01:27 PM.
Old 11-13-23, 01:45 PM
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re: Coyote vs Acme (2024)

After Batgirl and Scoob! were dumped, a group of filmmakers with business at the studio started a text chain — a support group of sorts — to share their hopes and their anxieties, as well as encouragement and tips for navigating the studio. The one question all of them had: What was going on with their movies?

The Coyote cancelation roiled the creative community perhaps even harder than Batgirl and Scoob!, because those had been positioned as a one-off change in strategy, never to happen again. According to sources, after the Coyote vs. Acme news broke last week, several filmmakers instructed reps to cancel meetings they had on the books with Warners. But now that Coyote may ultimately find a new home, these filmmakers are taking a wait-and-see approach.

Unlike the other films Warners canceled, Coyote vs. Acme was fully completed and had tested multiple times in the 90s. (Best picture winner Argo, both Deadpool movies, and the first The Conjuring are among features that likewise tested in the 90s.) According to sources who have seen the film — which stars Will Forte, John Cena and Lana Condor — Coyote vs. Acme is a popcorn-style crowd-pleaser.

“Coyote vs. Acme is a great movie,” tweeted writer-director BenDavid Grabinski, who worked with Green on Happily. “The best of its kind since [Who Framed] Roger Rabbit … The leads are super likable. It’s beautifully shot. The animation is great. The ending makes everyone fucking cry. I thought the goal of this business was to make hit movies?”

After Batgirl was shelved, a narrative emerged that the film was axed because it wasn’t very good. “Our job is to protect the DC brand, and that’s what we’re going to do,” Warner Bros. Discovery CEO Zaslav declared during 2022 investor’s call days after the cancelation. Peter Safran, who became the head of DC Studios after Batgirl was shelved, said the team behind the film was talented, but that Batgirl “was not releasable” in remarks to press in January.

Green’s industry friends mobilized to prevent that kind of messaging from tainting the reputation of Coyote vs. Acme. There is still a planned “funeral screening” this week on the Warners lot, according to sources, though “funeral” is no longer an apt term for a project that may very well find new life.

“I don’t know how you see the movie and then go, ‘That couldn’t happen to me,’” says Brian Duffield, the filmmaker behind the sleeper Hulu hit No One Will Save You. Duffield was not involved in Coyote vs. Acme, but is friends with Green and gave notes on the film.

Part of Duffield’s frustration, he says, was that Green did everything that was asked of him: he delivered the film, which sources say cost $72 million, on budget. He hit the right test scores. He even moved away from his friends and family to London for 18 months to save the studio money on post-production costs. All this, only to see his film get run off a cliff.

Duffield believes that Coyote can make money — certainly more than the tax write-off.

“I think Coyote is really similar to Barbie in a lot of ways,” says Duffield. “They are playing with iconography in a really fun, popcorn kind of way.”

Veteran film executives acknowledge that shelving a film for a tax-writeoff — and to avoid distribution and marketing costs — can make an earnings quarter look better, but it can be short-sighted for a studio in the business of building franchises and a slate.

The decision followed the industry taking a hard turn from a streaming boom golden age that saw studios shelling out unprecedented billions on content, particularly titles related to a familiar IP like Coyote vs. Acme. Some saw Warners’ bottom-line ruthlessness as less of a new way of mistreating talent than a return to how Hollywood used to be.

“The idea that there was a little window there where a lot of people got to try a lot of stuff they wouldn’t have gotten to try in normal circumstances, that’s the anomaly,” one top writer-producer said. “The kind of red tooth and claw version of [conducting business], the nastiness — I think that’s the norm.”

Still, it’s easy to imagine that if an in-demand creative has an all-things-being-equal choice of going with Warners or another studio in the future, that Zaslav’s aggressive tax strategies could give real pause — even with the reversal. Zaslav previously reversed an unpopular decision — the gutting of TCM — after an outcry from creatives including Steven Spielberg, Martin Scorsese and Paul Thomas Anderson.

Interestingly, the plot of Coyote vs. Acme follows the speechless, ever-determined Wile E. Coyote as he teams up with a lawyer (Forte) to fight the big ACME corporation. Just like in the cartoons, Coyote buys ACME devices to try and kill Road Runner, but they never work properly, and often abruptly explode. The third shelved Warners movie, in other words, is the story of an underdog taking on a heartless company whose executives don’t realize there can be real consequences to making their products blow up in your face.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/mo...lm-1235645372/
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Old 11-13-23, 02:21 PM
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re: Coyote vs Acme (2024)

Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ
Oh this could be released? Eh, I’ve lost interest in seeing it now.

Ha! That's exactly what I was thinking. I'm sure 90% of the people online who were "outraged" by this will never actually see the movie.* They don't really care. It's just something to get mad about.

*This isn't directed at anyone specifically in this thread, so don't come at me about how you're a passionate patron of animation (and the works of John Cena) and that you're going to see this 17 times.
Old 11-13-23, 04:03 PM
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re: Coyote vs Acme (2024)

James Gunn is on Threads and just posted a picture of Wile E. Coyote stirring a pot.

No other comments but all the replies are making “let him cook” comments.
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Old 11-13-23, 04:11 PM
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re: Coyote vs Acme (2024)

Since WB is walking away from this one, I wonder what Gunn could possibly have to do with it now.
Old 11-13-23, 04:21 PM
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re: Coyote vs Acme (2024)

Originally Posted by Decker
Since WB is walking away from this one, I wonder what Gunn could possibly have to do with it now.
He produced it and has story credit. Who distributes it doesn’t change his involvement.
Old 11-13-23, 04:31 PM
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re: Coyote vs Acme (2024)

Originally Posted by dex14
He produced it and has story credit. Who distributes it doesn’t change his involvement.
I didn't realize that he was involved creatively with it. Makes it even more baffling that they tried to kill it.
Old 11-13-23, 08:59 PM
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re: Coyote vs Acme (2024)

Hopefully creatives do walk away from Warners. They're setting a very bad precedent and shelving movies for tax benefits shouldn't be swept under the rug. I imagine they can look forward to seeing "anti-shelving" clauses in contracts with big payouts by the creatives that choose to work with WB in the near future.

With this being a pattern now over at WB it makes you wonder if Batgirl was that bad or just a distraction to avoid excess media attention on the tax write off part of the discussion.
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