Such a cluster-fuck of “what if’s”.... Disney shit the bed in an epic way. When my son like ROTJ more than any ST film, they failed gloriously.

As a kid when we would play with our Star Wars toys we always pretended that Han and Leia were split up and that Luke was hiding out while the galaxy was in turmoil. I still feel cheated.

I like RotJ more than the ST. Remove some of that silly Ewok stuff and it’s actually a pretty great movie!

Of course, I’m sure my love for RotJ has a lot to do with nostalgia.

Despite what some may say about Return of the Jedi, and I acknowledge it’s not perfect but still enjoy it, I feel it’s a far, far, far better ending to the Skywalker saga than The Rise of Skywalker or anything else in the sequels.

It’s just a perfect ending either to the Original Trilogy, or even later bringing the Prequel Trilogy into play it works as a redemption arc for Anakin. The Sequel Trilogy just adds very little of value to the story, and just feel like a tacked on set of inconsequential movies.

ROTJ gave us princess Leia in a slave outfit. Might be what your son likes best about this movie.

Honestly, I don't know why anyone would ever want to get involved in the Star Wars franchise. All Star Wars "fans" do is complain.

They hated the prequel trilogy. They want the unaltered Original Trilogy. They hate the sequel trilogy. All they really want is something to complain about.

They want the Thrawn Trilogy filmed, but what's the point of filming stories people already know. Plus if you try to film them just like the books, people will hate that they're unoriginal. If you make changes, then you're raping their childhood.

We live in a world now where everyone thinks their fanfic is better than official movies, and shipping has nothing to do with fedex.

I grew up on Star Wars. Not as in they were all out when I was a kid. As in, my parents took me to see Star Wars when I was 3, Empire when I was 6, and Jedi when I was 9. I have never lapsed in my love of the universe. But I don't understand the hate for them. Well, the unnecessary clunkiness of Jar Jar is embarrassingly hard to watch. But the sequel trilogy is fine. No, they're not Truffaut, but none of them have been. I guess I just have a better grasp on how life really works than some.

When a new one comes out, I don't read everything on it to try and spoil it. I don't scour the internet for theories to tear apart. I don't sit in an expensive gaming chair and talk into an overly large microphone with a irritating dialect to all my "friends" about my stupid ideas for a sequel or spread rumors about what my trusted insiders at other sites told me.

I just go to the movie when it comes out, watch it, and accept it as the next chapter in that world.

You're not going to change Disney's mind. They're not going to tear apart millions of dollars of marketing, merchandise, and theme parks because people online are mad about something. People on the internet are never happy. Seriously, if you're saying, "we like some things", tell me the last time you truly loved a new installment of any franchise.

And Disney knows that whatever they do, some people will hate it. So, why not just make the movie they want to make and be happy with it.

The SW fandom has become the exact same scenario for them as Watchmen is for Alan Moore. The creators of the HBO series knew there will never be any version of the franchise that he will ever like, or even watch, so why bother even trying to please him. They just did what they wanted with no thought of him.

If any SW fans really think the people in charge are going to do any differently for their fans, they're just in denial. Or just like complaining.

I would have focused the first sequel movie (Episode 7) on the remnants of the Empire rebuilding. Some kind of machinations towards rebuilding their military power and behind the scenes manipulation of the people in power in the New Republic.

A new Palpatine-like figure, who studied the rise of the Empire would have been at the center of it, but he wouldn't have been a Sith Lord or someone looking to, "Rule the galaxy," but, rather, someone who preferred to remain behind the scenes, manipulating everyone. I would have kept his identity secret until near the end of the second movie, and even then I would have kept his real goals kind of vague.

Among all that, Luke and Leia find out about the rising threat of a new Empire (as they start to take a handful of planets in their little corner of the galaxy), and try to find out who's involved and where their base of operations is. It would be a mirror to the original trilogy as the New Republic would be hunting the Empire's leadership (who are controlling their little Empire by proxy, keeping their base location a secret until they can rebuild their fleet enough to be confident that the New Republic wouldn't be able to stop them).

Through all that, a smaller set of stories with individual missions that are vital to finding and snuffing out the New Empire would be the focus of the three movies. Make them fun, focus on the small stories that impact the big picture, and make sure the scripts are good.

Yes, it would have included Luke, Leia, Han, Chewie, and Lando, but the action sequences would have focused primarily on new, younger characters (with Han, Chewie, and Luke reluctantly forced to join in on some of the action at points).

The sad thing is while The Force Awakens certainly was good, and it set up a solid sequel trilogy, The Last Jedi screwed it all up so badly that only a great movie could have salvaged the trilogy, and Rise of Skywalker wasn't great (just OK). A lot of the fan ideas posted here and several other places would have made for better trilogies.

I kinda hate the blanket statement that some fans just hate like it’s completely unwarranted or that it applies to anything and everything involving the franchise.

Releasing the unaltered Original Trilogy is such an easy thing to do that there’s no reason to not do it other than a stubborn man. I like many others would accept changes alongside the unaltered versions.

I maintain that at least some of the ill feelings towards the Prequel Trilogy is due to the fact that the unaltered Original Trilogy was and has continued to be held back. That soured a lot of people (myself included) on Star Wars for quite a while.

Disney seemed like a saving grace when they stepped in. Unfortunately they had seemingly no idea on how to handle the Sequel Trilogy or hiring the right people for it. The films wound up being disjointed and messy, and clearly had no direction on where they were going. It’s very obvious and is just mind boggling how they handled the films so poorly.

There are reasons why fans complain in my opinion, but at the same time there are instances where those same fans give the appropriate praise. Stuff like Rogue One and The Mandalorian are both amazing and well done. Solo is very good too. Also The Clone Wars and Rebels are both quite well done.

Treat the property and fanbase with respect and people like it more, who would think that makes sense??

How dare the fans complain when they crap out bad movies? Where do these toxic fans think they get the right to not like something that their corporate overlords sell them?

Star Wars defined generations of youth.. I can't think of another film that touched so many people, for decades, across the world. Disney bought this big cash cow and had to shit something out immediately so the stock would soar - and it showed.

Excellent points all around. The fact there are still a lot of good stories being told means there are people who “get it”. They see what the point of this galaxy spanning conflict is about.
Unfortunately those people weren’t in charge of the movies.
I still love TFA and think TROS did a decent rescue job of the ST, but I would’ve like to seen a trilogy with somebody like Abrams at the helm, but with Filoni and Favreau in the writer's room. JJ knows how to infuse the right kind of energy but his story crafting isn’t fully fleshed out.

And I absolutely agree that the refusal to release the originals is a big part of the bad feelings in the community. They could have been released years ago and healed over a lot of the wounds that the newer works have kept poking at.

Except that there has always been problems with Star Wars. People loved Jedi, until they got older. I remember growing up and getting tired of the ewoks, and seeing other people do the same.

The prequels came out, and people could not complain enough. Jar Jar. Young Anakin. Teenage Anakin. Bad CGI. Bad dialogue. I admit they are very flawed too. I'm not trying to defend them. I'm just pointing out that there were problems way before Disney got them. And these were in the hands of "the creator". Holiday Special anyone? Ewoks TV movies? Ewoks & Droids cartoons?

Yes, some stuff has been better than others. Clones Wars & Rebels are pretty amazing. Rogue One is a pretty solid film. The Mandalorian is good (although I wish people would calm the hell down about The Child. He's cute, but rabid fanboys are the most tiring creatures on the planet. Manic behavior is not good).

I think the track record is that when they don't mess with OT characters, people are more willing to keep an open mind. I don't think people can be rational about anything dealing with Luke, Han, or Leia. People complained about Solo so hard that Disney shut down production on other films and had to rethink things. And it's not really a bad film. People just wanted another nihilistic film like Rogue One and instead they got a more lighthearted romp.

They're never going to be able to please all of the fanbase. People aren't just saying, "I have a problem with A or B." They're saying, "This whole movie was crap, and I have a better idea. Blah blah blah blah EU blah blah Mara Jade blah blah".

And my big issue with this is the conceit. Most of the ideas people have are terrible, thin, and full of just as many plot problems as anything they are complaining about. Everything looks better as a pitch. How about doing a while screenplay and seeing if you can follow through on the ideas. But the internet's just chock full of the world's best authors and screenwriters who have never sold a thing.

The most amusing complaint IMHO is the grouchy old Luke one. That was one of the best plotlines I've seen in the series. A lot passionate and inspired youth turn bitter later in life when they get tired of the uphill struggle against a world where the lowest common denominator runs rampant and is given control of the world, while the intelligent and creative are often badgered and beaten down. Was grumpy old "certain point of view" Obi-Wan in ANH the same energetic go-getter that he was in the prequels and Clone Wars? Wasn't he beaten down? He killed himself to help the rebels in the end. That's pretty dark.

I think the majority of people are fine with them, which is why Disney doesn't really care. The vocal minority is not who they are aiming to please. Especially since the impression is that there's no pleasing them. Over time people will come to appreciate the films more.

Look, I understand this is a pointless discussion. I'm not going to change anyone's mind, and that was never my intent.

All I'm asking for is for a modicum of rationality. Ask yourself: Isn't it possible the films aren't as bad as you would like them to be? That the real issue is that they're not what you wanted them to be?

Different is not inherently bad. It's just different.

I'm leaving it alone now. I'm just looking for some kind of reason or sense and only finding outrage. I guess I'm just a grumpy Luke.

Grumpy Luke that hid for a while because he failed Ben Solo is not a bad idea. Grumpy Luke that didn’t physically get on the Falcon with Rey and Chewie and actually rejoin the Resistance is the problem.

That is a garbage rumor from a garbage site I eliminated from my clickbait feeds on the Google landing page. None of that will ever happen. Just such, such garbage.

This line of reasoning, often trotted out in defense of the sequel trilogy, bemuses me to no end.

People frequently dislike entries in franchise films. Alien3. Prometheus. Jurassic Park sequels. Pirates of the Caribbean sequels. Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. Even the Star Wars prequels.

But now, all of a sudden, when the sequel trilogy receives criticism and dislike (up to and including scorn and hate), the criticism is dismissed because it wasn't the film the people who disliked it wanted to see?

I mean, yeah, I guess that might be true. I wanted the sequel trilogy to be more than a lifeless remake of the OT that went nowhere and accomplished nothing but rendering everything that was accomplished in those movies pointless. The Empire's back. There's a third Death Star. The New Republic failed. Luke's new Jedi Order failed. Shit, Anakin didn't even kill the Emperor and balance the Force.

It's just a cynical corporate sequel. The same story with some new actors. No ingenuity. No creativity. Just retell the same story from four decades ago, but, hey, Luke's a girl now, and we'll pat ourselves on the back for being so clever.

If only we had actually gotten something different...

Exactly.

Now the scene and reveal that resulted from that was really cool (with Luke facing down the First Order), a perfect block to build on in the next movie... until Luke disappears. I honestly think most complaints (about that particular plot point) would have gone away if Luke just survives.

If the movies were released prequels first and we got this whole saga about Obi Won and then we got A New Hope as the "end" of his journey (and later, Yoda), I similarly think a lot of people would have been disappointed. Like really really disappointed.

Agreed. Removing that single shot of Luke disappearing could have altered the entire third movie. It was like Rian Johnson said, “Screw you, Director of part IX! Get out of this corner I painted you into!”

Giving the next Director the option of having Luke alive or dead would have left the door open for so much more. Instead we get a small scene of Force Ghost Luke scolding Rey for the way she treats a lightsaber not long after Luke did the exact same thing with a lightsaber.

Story wise it may not mean much but imagine that instead of the very final shot being of Rey making up a name in front of Luke’s old house that we get an aerial shot of Luke continuing with training Rey, or something similar. Or since the series likes to mirror itself so much, maybe a final shot of Luke and Rey looking on at Force Ghosts Leia and Ben. Maybe it wouldn’t have left such a bad taste in people’s mouths.

If the ST was three generic sci-fi movies with no Star Wars references, you can't tell me anyone would have cared about them. And they wouldn't have made billions of dollars either. So this isn't a case of fans being difficult to please.

I often wonder why, for those of us growing up in the 80s, it took decades for us to realize Lucas wasn't that great. Sure we had Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, and Raiders of the Lost Ark. (I suppose I could throw in American Graffiti if I was feeling generous.) But there were warning signs everywhere. The aforementioned Star Wars Holiday Special. Two damn Ewok movies. I like Temple of Doom, but I think that's more a credit to Spielberg's direction. Man - I think Lucas tried the best he could to come up with a story that would be an utter disaster. Spielberg really could take crap and make it amazing back then. And then freaking Howard the Duck! The Greedo shoots first controversy. Not until Phantom Menace did I realize this guy was mediocre at best. But I ignored A LOT of clues my whole life before coming to that conclusion.

I mean, we were kids (well, most of us)! It's not like the OT were held up as some high mark of storytelling by adults and cinema fanatics back then, if anything it was all of the special effects that garnered the attention. And the marketing and toys pulled kids in to a degree that a lot of us knew more about those movies and even the most minor character than most other things in an age when home video was in it's infancy.

And it's not like the movies are terrible, especially compared to some of the contemporary films of the day. It just got to the point somewhere along the line where the empire was too big and the hype and expectations were so great (and the nerds followed too closely) that it became what it is today.

I'm also not going to rule out the movies coming out, with the special effects budget that it had, completely divorced from anything before and still being popular. Divorced of expectations some of us might even like them more. But seeing the success of something like Avatar, which baffles me, or something as removed from the original cartoon as Transformers, tells me that I have no idea what sells tickets.

Nostalgia and goodwill built from a strong past track record is what sells tickets. Betray the fans trust and you get this massive outcry. This is three times now that fans have been betrayed by Star Wars. First it was Lucas mucking around with the originals. 2nd was the prequel trilogy. Third time, is Disney 's awful sequel trilogy.
This is now three strikes against the Star Wars franchise.

I have played Star War video games over the years that has a more meaningful story then the prequel and sequel trilogy.

The question was how the movies would be received without the Star Wars connection. Meaningful story has little to do with how special effects-laden films are received, unless people thought Avatar was some kind of masterpiece...

I agree with your premise that for this franchise, the good will built up has been stomped into the ground, but I disagree that three strikes means you're out, fans will flock to whatever they release next.

Absolutely, without the Star Wars name, the ST would have been received like Jupiter Ascending or Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets.

And, yes, the PT probably would have as well...

Short answer to the original question:

Not THAT!

You want a sequel trilogy, here ya go.

The galaxy has been in a state of general decline after the Galactic Empire (Old Republic) was smashed and the New Republic fell into squabbling and infighting. Think The Mandalorian. Luke Skywalker has had enough and moved to the remote Jedi planet to meditate and commune with Obi Wan, Yoda, and his father. Loose confederations stake out territories, often controlled by criminal organizations.

The threat comes in the arrival of an ancient evil, which in the long ago, was beat back by a combination of both Jedi and Sith. Luke discovers that the Jedi were once like the Sith, only having two members, a Master and an apprentice. This is why Anakin had to bring balance, as the Jedi had become corrupt and drunk on their own power. The Jedi and Sith of old were locked in an endless cyclical battle for the soul of the universe, but joined together to beat back this outside threat. With the return of the ancient evil, Luke must not only take on a new apprentice, but find a likely candidate to turn to the dark side and become a sith lord. This is where the child of Han and Leia comes into play. Once the two sides unite once more, they rally a reluctant galaxy to defeat the ancient evil and its forces of darkness. The possibilities are endless. The big plot twist for the second movie can be that Luke himself becomes the Sith Lord, and Ben Solo the new Jedi Master.