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Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by Abob Teff
(Post 14562311)
Maybe an odd tangent . . . but since there were never any actual known clones or reference to them throughout the entire run of the OT, I had always assumed it was something else, such as a planet/system/race. You know, the Klohn Wars.
I may also be imagining this one, but I believe when I was little I may have thought it was the Cologne Wars. The main question was what exactly the Clone Wars were. The prevailing ideas before the prequels came to fruition were that Jedi Knights were being cloned for the war effort, or they were wars fought by armies of clones (that later became Stormtroopers). At one time, people theorized that Obi-Wan Kenobi was a clone designation (OB-1) and that Ben Kenobi and Obi-Wan were two different people, one a clone and one the original. Timothy Zahn's "Heir to the Empire" novel trilogy went with both ideas of cloned Jedi Knights and cloned armies. In the early development of the first novel, the cloned Jedi Joruus C'Baoth was to have been a clone of Obi-Wan Kenobi, but Lucas nixed that idea. And the "Dark Force" in the second novel was a fleet of ships manned by cloned crews. ETA: Had this tab open for too long and other posters beat me to the punch. :lol: |
Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by Josh-da-man
(Post 14561768)
I've been hearing calls for Feige to be shown the door (and I'm one of them) post-Endgame...
And there's certainly a number of valid arguments about the differences between Kennedy and Feige, I just don't think gender is one of them, which is what I was responding to. |
Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by Josh-da-man
(Post 14562106)
I'm not a fan of Filoni's either. There were a few good stories in Clone Wars and Rebels, but most of it comes off as fan-ficcy.
Ahoska is, when you get down to it, a Mary Sue/Creator's Pet. She was introduced between films, then managed to weave herself all over the story and become the most important character in the galaxy. https://geektyrant.com/news/dave-fil...nakins-padawan "I remember saying to George I said, 'Well, you know, Anakin doesn't have a Padawan. Let's put it realistically here, I mean, you know, he says, 'Anakin Skywalker has a Padawan.' And then Henry Gilroy and I kind of look at each other like, 'Okay. Um. But, no. Anakin doesn't have a Padawan.' And he just kind of paused and looked at both of us, and then he said, 'Anakin has a Padawan.'“ Filoni added: "I suppose I could go on arguing this point in and out and bring the textbooks in, but, you know, I preferred the choice to say, 'Well, okay, why does he want to do that and let me talk about it with him and let's see where we can go with this.'"
Originally Posted by Josh-da-man
(Post 14562106)
Also not a fan of his convoluted take on the Force like that Father-Daughter-Son business, the Living Force, the Cosmic Force, etc. (Which might have come from Lucas?)
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=273146652363542 |
Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by Jay G.
(Post 14562595)
Just to be clear, Ahsoka was George Lucas's idea.
https://geektyrant.com/news/dave-fil...nakins-padawan One thing Filoni did was to try and incorporate George's crazy ideas into a story that makes sense. And then he doesn't abandon/ignore it. Yep, that was also George Lucas's idea. https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=273146652363542 George Lucas is not some inerrant genius that we should all be looking back to for some wise guidance on this IP. He's an anti-establishment guy who had some neat ideas and was able to execute them well (mostly the more hand's off he got) and then became the establishment. Frankly, I care fuck-all for what George Lucas thinks about Star Wars at this point. If he wanted to explore his more mystical ideas for the Force, he could have woven them into the Prequels or kept the rights and done his own thing. Dave Filoni buys into the bullshit that is auteur theory and keeps perpetuating his career by convincing people he has some great insight because he listened to Lucas ramble on and was too afraid to challenge a friend he looked up to. |
Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by JTH182
(Post 14562465)
I remember thinking long before the prequels that the Clone Wars were the Jedi fighting clones of themselves.
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Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by Jay G.
(Post 14562595)
Just to be clear, Ahsoka was George Lucas's idea.
https://geektyrant.com/news/dave-fil...nakins-padawan One thing Filoni did was to try and incorporate George's crazy ideas into a story that makes sense. And then he doesn't abandon/ignore it. Yep, that was also George Lucas's idea. https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=273146652363542 George came up with an idea. Filoni is the one who molded it and brought it to life and kept molding it and kept pushing it and kept going back to it. Admittedly, my experience with Ahsoka is through Rebels and the Ahsoka series. I don't have an issue with the character, though she, like many things in the universe, is a piece that doesn't fit nicely into the puzzle. I cannot stomach Clone Wars because the characters are annoying, not just Ahsoka. That is Filoni, not George, and not a result of "Sky Guy" needing a Padawan. The concept makes sense -- the downfall of the Jedi came through this hubris -- it is the execution that sucks. That is Filoni. |
Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by PhantomStranger
(Post 14562639)
Which would have been a lot more entertaining direction for the prequels than what we got.
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Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
Here's a other way to think of it, folks:
The boss told the enployee to implement his idea, so the employee did it. I mean, what else do people expect would happen, in that scenario? |
Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by IBJoel
(Post 14562631)
Whatever was who's idea is irrelevant. Who brought them from paper to screen? Who keeps doing that?
And at this point Ahsoka is a fan favorite. It's also maybe not surprising that Filinoi got attached to the character after dealing with her for so many seasons. But the only reason we got the Ahsoka spin-off was because her initial appearance in The Mandalorian, which could've easily been a one-off, got a strong positive reaction.
Originally Posted by IBJoel
(Post 14562631)
George Lucas is not some inerrant genius that we should all be looking back to for some wise guidance on this IP...
Originally Posted by Abob Teff
(Post 14562644)
ALL of it was George's idea. That doesn't mean all the trees in the forest belong to the guy who planted a seed.
George came up with an idea. Filoni is the one who molded it and brought it to life and kept molding it and kept pushing it and kept going back to it.
Originally Posted by Abob Teff
(Post 14562644)
I cannot stomach Clone Wars because the characters are annoying, not just Ahsoka.
When I watched The Clone Wars, I used a few guides showing "essential episodes/arcs" and IMDB average scores to skip over the worst of the show, which was primarily in the first few seasons. |
Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
That's how I finally watched, and found a way to enjoy, The Clone Wars, too.
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Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
I watched and enjoyed The Clone Wars from the beginning. But yeah first few seasons there were a number of clunkers but also some really good episodes/arcs. It really got going for me in the 3rd season.
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Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
I think you mean "clankers."
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Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by story
(Post 14562793)
I think you mean "clankers."
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Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
Peak Clone wars content for me is the last season and a half or so of the Clone Wars through the Bad Batch. Pretty much from shortly before the execution of Order 66 to the immediate aftermath and long term repercussions (Bad Batch). This would include Rebels, but the clones are a less of a focus there outside of Rex popping up.
Originally Posted by Jay G.
(Post 14562658)
But the argument was that Filoni has bad ideas, but those two ideas weren't his.
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Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by Jay G.
(Post 14562658)
But the argument was that Filoni has bad ideas, but those two ideas weren't his.
Originally Posted by Jay G.
(Post 14562658)
How far into it did you get? George Lucas was reportedly heavily involved in it at the beginning, giving notes, not just ideas, and the first few seasons are considered the worst. By most accounts, it gets a lot better in the later seasons, when George stepped back and Filoni had more creative control.
When I watched The Clone Wars, I used a few guides showing "essential episodes/arcs" and IMDB average scores to skip over the worst of the show, which was primarily in the first few seasons. I have pondered trying it that way, and I would be willing to try. I don't want to not like it . . . I want more GOOD Star Wars in my life. I'm just not convinced it is good Star Wars. As I said, I managed to get through Rebels. While I had some issues, I enjoyed it overall. I have even tried The Bad Batch and couldn't get through the first episode of it either. It is just too childish. Sometimes, fantasy is better served by the limitations of live action rather than the freedom of animation. |
Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by Abob Teff
(Post 14562980)
When I get a bad pizza, I don't blame the guy who invented pizza, I blame the cook who made it. There seems to be a conflagration of "concept" and "execution" when we are using the word "idea."
Originally Posted by Abob Teff
(Post 14562980)
I have pondered trying it that way, and I would be willing to try.
Originally Posted by Jay G.
(Post 13866627)
So there's a separate thread for Season 7, but I think my question may better fit here.
After watching The Mandalorian season 2, decided to finally watch Clone Wars while I have Disney+ . Except, I've heard that it starts off really rough, so I want to skip the bad episodes, at least at the beginning, unless they're otherwise essential to the show. I don't have a problem with "filler" episodes, since I'm not in a rush to finish the show, as long as they're still good episodes. Also, I don't care about watching it in the chronological order Lucasfilm later set out. So, I've done some research. First, there's lists of "essential" episodes, with maybe this list being the most prominent (image spoilered for size) https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Th...Guide/id/77657 Spoiler:
Then, there's some guides showing IMDB user ratings: Spoiler:
Based on that, I've decided on the following viewing guide for season 1 (episodes being watched in bold): Ambush Rising Malevolence Shadow of Malevolence Destroy Malevolence Rookies Downfall of a Droid Duel of the Droids Bombad Jedi Cloak of Darkness Lair of Grievous Dooku Captured The Gungan General Jedi Crash Defenders of Peace Trespass The Hidden Enemy Blue Shadow Virus Mystery of a Thousand Moors Storm of Ryloth Innocents of Ryloth Liberty on Ryloth Hostage Crisis I think from season 2 on I'll just watch it straight through, since the overall IMDB ratings seem better, with only the occasional dud. Also, some other watchlists, this one up through Season 5: https://watchlist.neocities.org/ And this one through Season 6: https://www.georgeshawmusic.com/post...-episode-guide |
Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by Michael Corvin
(Post 14562955)
Semantics. One has bad ideas and the other decides to make those bad ideas a reality. So who's the worst offender?
[QUOTE=Michael Corvin;14562955]Peak Clone wars content for me is the last season and a half or so of the Clone Wars through the Bad Batch. Pretty much from shortly before the execution of Order 66 to the immediate aftermath and long term repercussions (Bad Batch). This would include Rebels, but the clones are a less of a focus there outside of Rex popping.[quote] That was pretty much all Filoni without Lucas sticking his nose in, especially Rebels, which came about after Disney bought Lucasfilm. It's weird that people don't like Filoni, while liking what he had the most influence on. Even if you don't like early The Clone Wars and don't buy that Lucas's meddling was the reason it was bad, it still shows Filoni improving as the show goes on. It was only his second show directing (he directed some episodes of Avatar: The Last Airbender), and his first show running gig. |
Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
I'd be interested to know how much influence Filoni had on Rogue One -- because that movie, to me, is the only really good content (movie or show) we've had (save a few episodes of Mandalorian) since Disney took over. I couldn't care less about the cartoons and every TV series outside of Andor has been lackluster, IMO.
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Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by Rob V
(Post 14563108)
I'd be interested to know how much influence Filoni had on Rogue One -- because that movie, to me, is the only really good content (movie or show) we've had (save a few episodes of Mandalorian) since Disney took over. I couldn't care less about the cartoons and every TV series outside of Andor has been lackluster, IMO.
That said, he seems even less likely a choice to head the studio than Jon Favreau or Dave Filoni. |
Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by Michael Corvin
(Post 14562371)
I worked with someone in the mid-late 90s (pre-Episode 1) that swore up and down that we were going to find out that Obi-wan was actually Obi-ONE and the first clone. I found it preposterous at the time and debated him on it but after the PT we got? Maybe that could have been something. :lol:
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Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by Jay G.
(Post 14563094)
So you think giving Anakin an apprentice in Ahsoka, and creating the Father-Son-Daughter Mortis Gods of The Force, were good ideas?
Yeah, man . . . I have no idea what the hell any of that meant. So, I'm going with "no?" :toast: I said the idea of giving Anakin a Padawan was in line with the same hubris that caused the downfall of the Jedi. Thank you for the episode guide suggestion. I have Spring Break in a few weeks and I may give it a go. |
Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by Abob Teff
(Post 14564197)
Yeah, man . . . I have no idea what the hell any of that meant. So, I'm going with "no?"
I said the idea of giving Anakin a Padawan was in line with the same hubris that caused the downfall of the Jedi. It's sort of like if you dislike Hawaiian pizza. It doesn't matter how well the cook makes it, you're not going to like it, because you dislike the concept, not the execution. Dave Filoni had to work with bad ideas George Lucas forced on the show, at least at first. As Lucas stepped back, Filoni had more creative control, and most agree the show got better. |
Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
No one really knows how the game is played
The art of the trade How the sausage gets made We just assume that it happens But no one else is in the room where it happens Ok, whatever. What I am reading here is that George said, "Dave, Anakin needs a Padawan. It only makes sense." Dave ran with it and made the Adventures of Sky Guy and the Fly Girl. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know. I only know that every piece of Filoni-involved Star Wars that I have seen has had childish sensibilities and lazy story telling at some point which offended my personal ideas of Star Wars. Some people love those, so all the more power to them. I have had issues with some Lucasian-based Star Wars, but not all. |
Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by Abob Teff
(Post 14564739)
Ok, whatever. What I am reading here is that George said, "Dave, Anakin needs a Padawan. It only makes sense." ...
Even just Wikipedia has more info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahsoka_Tano Lucas, who had two daughters, also wanted the character to appeal to girls.[4] Early in development, Ahsoka's name was "Ashla".[5][a] Lucas renamed her after the ancient Indian emperor Ashoka; the spelling was then altered by screenwriter Henry Gilroy. https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/co...iloni_created/ My answer comes straight from The Art of The Clone Wars. A TEENAGE TOGRUTA PADAWAN, Ahsoka Tano was a completely new character. "Ahsoka came out of an earlier idea for the series when didn't think we were going to have Anakin Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi in it," says Filoni. "Henry and I came up with a concept about two Jedi, a Master and Padawan, assigned to the black market." Though they jettisoned the concept once Lucas made it clear that the series would feature Skywalker and Kenobi, Gilroy and Filoni stuck with the idea of a girl Padawan. "Dave and I figured that Anakin was a Jedi Knight very early in the war, so we thought it would be interesting if we gave Obi-Wan a replacement Padawan," recalls Gilroy. "But George wanted her to be Anakin's Padawan."
Originally Posted by Abob Teff
(Post 14564739)
I only know that every piece of Filoni-involved Star Wars that I have seen has had childish sensibilities and lazy story telling at some point..
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Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
:shrug:
:toast: |
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