inri222

Never would have thought that the director of The Hangover was capable of this. It was way better than I thought it was going to be in every aspect from the the score to the cinematography to the acting.
I thought Joaquin Phoenix was amazing in The Master and You Were Never Really Here, but this is definitely going to get him that Oscar that he deserves.

Why So Blu?

I didn't care for The Master but agree with everything else you said.

Mr. Flix

If Phoenix did get an Oscar for this, would it be the first time two different actors won Oscars for portraying the same character?

Ash Ketchum

No, both Marlon Brando and Robert De Niro won Oscars for playing Vito Corleone, Brando in THE GODFATHER and De Niro in THE GODFATHER II.

Troy Stiffler

So this is the highest grossing R-rated movie ever. This. This dark, miserable, often-tedious character study, with just a glimmer of satisfaction in the final minute.

Up next: Man Bites Dog remake dethrones Endgame?

B5Erik

Plot = Story

No story = Not worth watching

Not for 2+ hours.

Plot is the most important element of a movie. You still need a good script, good acting, good direction, and good editing to make a good movie, but without the plot none of the rest matters.

I didn't like Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid for the simple reason that it had no real plot. It was just random days in their life over a period of time. There was no substance to the movie, all style.

I kind of feel the same about Joker. Only Joker's worse because there are no likable or relatable characters.

Giantrobo

Plot = Story
Joker Plot/Story = Man Becomes Joker, here's how...

It's just that simple.

dex14

Plot and story are not the same.

B5Erik

Yeah, they really are.

I'm curious as to how you see them as separate or different.

dex14

Plot exists within a story. They are most definitely two separate things. Take all the Marvel movies... the story is basically the same (especially the origins), but what makes them different is the execution of their plot and how it takes the characters through different events, twist and turns, etc. Hence why we have subPLOTs and PLOT twists.

Giantrobo

Yeah that's why i said:

dex14

The comment in which you were replying to is what I was disagreeing with.

Giantrobo

Ah, got it.

Original Desmond

Can't deny Phoenix's performance but overall just decent for me.

Terrible portrayals of Thomas Wayne and a wimpy alfred

Man with shitty childhood and down on his luck goes psycho, nothing we haven't seen a heap before

It's fine having a stand alone movie but the proof in the pudding will be if they can incorporate this character into a movie with other proper DC characters (not the pathetic Thomas Wayne, Alfred and Bruce from this movie).

Draven

Finally saw this and it was exactly what I thought it was going to be - the “poor me” Joker backstory that no one needed. It was well-acted and well-shot but that’s really it. Too slow and plodding. And hey, another “the Waynes get killed in an alley” scene in a movie Just what we needed.

I just think a story that tries to create ANY sympathy for the Joker is problematic. Having mental problems and coming from an abused household is too much. It would have been more effective if he had come from a loving home and a good life before snapping.

Why So Blu?

I think him being abused by his mother as a child made him lose it towards the end. His mother was his best friend, but once he read the report that she was the one that was really mental and tied him up to a radiator - all bets were off. I do not see it as a "poor me" film. Fleck always had nothing and is nothing, but he's everything as the Joker. Hell, the Alan Moore "Killing Joke" also had him be sympathetic in his origins and that's considered one of the greatest Joker stories of all time, so...

inri222

Rival11

Excellent movie. I figured most comic book people wouldn't get it as it's a film about a completely separate take on the Joker (and unfortunately, most won't view it that way due to the relation of the villains actual ties with the comic books/movies he came from).

I wouldn't say this movie was a character study, it's just the telling of an already crazy person getting to his boiling point and it's done so well. I love the little nuances of Phoenix' performance, he such a great actor. I had no problem with the Wayne stuff either, in all honestly, it was the only thing keeping this film a comic book film (spare the "what about the whole joker thing" comments).

Thought this was a very effective take on an alternative Joker. Really liked this one.

Coral

Finally saw this tonight. It was passable/decent.

Phoenix was really good and it was a very well put-together film. The problem is that it played out exactly how you would expect it to and didn't offer anything beyond that... and I'm not talking about it from a comic book storyline perspective (my knowledge of it is very limited). It was basically a mix of the Joker stuff, Taxi Driver and Falling Down.

And I also agree that this Joker isn't a criminal mastermind - so I'm really not seeing this evolve into the typical superhero/villan sequel type thing.
Plus I think they've pretty much limited this universe since by the time Bruce Wayne becomes Batman - the Joker would be in his 70's.

MysterioMan007

I am a late viewer as well. I am mixed on this one. Joaquin Phoenix did a great job. He plays unhinged and crazy very well. I thoroughly enjoyed the scene with DeNiro on the talk show and the chaos that followed. But, I can't say I really enjoyed the movie all that much. I mean, the guy was already nutty at the beginning of the movie, so I don't really see it as a descent into madness. It was well-made, but took too long to get where it was going, imo. But, I can't argue with anyone who loved it. I think it was good. I just don't think it's as good as all of the hype surrounding it.

lopper

I watched this last night, and I liked it a whole lot. It exceeded expectations.

Phoenix’s performance was wild, and probably my favorite Joker performance. I think physically, he embodied what I’d envisioned Joker to be.

clappj

No, there's nothing in/after the credits.

Jason

Finally saw this. Enjoyed the gritty early 80's NYC feel of Gotham quite a bit. Very dark, as I expected. Could have lived without the Wayne connection and especially yet another take on Martha's pearls flying off. At least the crime alley scene was less self indulgent that the Zak Snyder iteration.

A gritty, realistic Batman movie in this universe, one that actually sticks to the idea that batman has no superpowers, could be really good.

By no superpowers, I mean he can't fall off a skyscraper and survive. Or take enough abuse to kill a dozen men. Laying off the endless gizmos would be a nice touch too.

devilshalo

Wasn't thrilled with how Joker inadvertently starts a movement and revels in it. He's not V. And while I think it's a very well made movie with great acting from Phoenix, the portrayal of this *Joker* just doesn't sit well with me. Truly an Elseworlds story to me. Lucky that the CW DC shows have introduced multiple Earths to allow for this kind of story to unfold and exist.

DaveyJoe

​​​​​​Keep in mind this film uses an unreliable narrator and a lot of events we see on screen are delusions happening entirely in Arthur's head.