View Poll Results: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017)
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Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
#3826
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
Regarding the 3PO scene, I would probably give Johnson the benefit of a doubt if that was the only thing he did. The fact is though that's one thing amongst many others in which it seems like he wanted to go out of his way to give the middle finger to fans.
#3827
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
RJ made a film you didn't like, fine, but you're not the only Star Wars fan. Plenty of Star Wars fans like the film, myself included. You can criticize the film if you want, but saying stuff like "RJ hates Star Wars fans" is just exposing your myopic viewpoint that seems unable to comprehend that different people like different things, and that you don't speak for all fans.
#3828
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
-Yoda acts like crazy/sarcastic Yoda in TLJ, yet he only acted like that in ESB BEFORE Luke knew who he was. He was testing him, but than he shows up in TLJ and starts acting like the ESB Yoda from the beginning?
-As I stated earlier that Chewy and Luke have very little dialogue together in TLJ, yet they've been friends for 30 years. Rian Johnson essentially has Chewy sit on the island like an Uber Driver.
-R2 is in shutdown mode for 90% of TFA, which never made any sense.
-Of course Leia flying is one of dumbest things in the ST (but I will not blame Rian Johnson for that) as from what I read, Kathleen Kennedy recommended this (from the documentary).
-God only knows what they will do with Lando in Episode 9!
All of the OT characters are either 'out of character' in the ST, or they interact like they rarely knew each other in these movies. The Luke wink to C3PO is just another example, that is why I brought it up.
#3829
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
Real opinion on why he changed that and left it in. He probably figured it was such a small win to let Hamill have after destroying Luke's character that he went with it. It doesn't change the other stuff he did in which he went out of his way to be disrespectful to the fans. A wink from Luke to 3PO doesn't change the narrative of his film, but having to have had Hamill point that out, yeah it seems like it was something he probably conciously did. Anyone who has a history with these films shouldn't have needed that pointed out.
#3830
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
I recently watched all four Disney Star Wars films and I still love Rogue One and Solo and hate The Last Jedi but I have started to sour on The Force Awakens quite a bit. Most of what Abrams came up with when it comes to the OT characters is pretty bad and then Rian Johnson outdid him.
#3831
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
See I have very mixed feelings on The Force Awakens. I mostly enjoy a lot of it still but I've soured on it a bit. I think Han had a good final film to wrap up his character. His death didn't bother me, nor did the fact that he and Leia weren't together. I think those two characters were handled fairly well. Leia was underwritten but overall they got a decent treatment.
I would have liked to have seen Han, Leia, and Luke reunite is the biggest thing I'd change. What makes that film hard to stomach now is knowing how bad the follow-up is. I'm still going to give IX a shot and hope for the best, but realistically this movie broke a lot of what I anticipated from the sequels.
I would have liked to have seen Han, Leia, and Luke reunite is the biggest thing I'd change. What makes that film hard to stomach now is knowing how bad the follow-up is. I'm still going to give IX a shot and hope for the best, but realistically this movie broke a lot of what I anticipated from the sequels.
#3832
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
It seems lie you think that to be consistent with their characters, they can't have changed at all in the 30 years between films.
#3833
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
#3834
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
Characters can change, as they changed from ANH to ROTJ. I stated that the OT characters interacting (or lack there of) in the ST felt kind of strange or just felt off. The Chewy/Luke lack of interaction in TLJ was the most obvious to me, or even Chewy's who role in the ST (after Han died) as he is literally an Uber Driver.
Sorry, misuse of "literally" is a pet peeve of mine.
I will grant you the execution is the huge problem with this. But I think they could set something up earlier with Leia using the Force (in a small way as maybe using the Jedi Mind Trick or something) and than the payoff could have been something big like this scene so it doesn't come out of left field.
#3835
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
Real opinion on why he changed that and left it in. He probably figured it was such a small win to let Hamill have after destroying Luke's character that he went with it. It doesn't change the other stuff he did in which he went out of his way to be disrespectful to the fans. A wink from Luke to 3PO doesn't change the narrative of his film, but having to have had Hamill point that out, yeah it seems like it was something he probably conciously did. Anyone who has a history with these films shouldn't have needed that pointed out.
All this back and forth on TLJ boils down to the fact that if Johnson didn't make the movie a certain fan wanted, then that fan will rake him over the coals for every little flaw and inconsistency. While in something like the OT, you have Leia kissing her brother to make Han jealous and then George Lucas gets out there and claims he planned out 9 films. No he fucking didn't Luke and Leia are not supposed to be related in ESB. No amount of fanwanking or Lucas bullshit can make sense of that. These things are still MOVIES and stuff gets missed or left out or unnoticed.
#3836
DVD Talk Hero
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
I recently watched all four Disney Star Wars films and I still love Rogue One and Solo and hate The Last Jedi but I have started to sour on The Force Awakens quite a bit. Most of what Abrams came up with when it comes to the OT characters is pretty bad and then Rian Johnson outdid him.
#3837
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
Mistakes in movies happen all the time - the time slate at the beginning of Spider-man: Homecoming was completely incorrect and hundreds of people who know the MCU world forward and back saw that before it went out.
All this back and forth on TLJ boils down to the fact that if Johnson didn't make the movie a certain fan wanted, then that fan will rake him over the coals for every little flaw and inconsistency. While in something like the OT, you have Leia kissing her brother to make Han jealous and then George Lucas gets out there and claims he planned out 9 films. No he fucking didn't Luke and Leia are not supposed to be related in ESB. No amount of fanwanking or Lucas bullshit can make sense of that. These things are still MOVIES and stuff gets missed or left out or unnoticed.
All this back and forth on TLJ boils down to the fact that if Johnson didn't make the movie a certain fan wanted, then that fan will rake him over the coals for every little flaw and inconsistency. While in something like the OT, you have Leia kissing her brother to make Han jealous and then George Lucas gets out there and claims he planned out 9 films. No he fucking didn't Luke and Leia are not supposed to be related in ESB. No amount of fanwanking or Lucas bullshit can make sense of that. These things are still MOVIES and stuff gets missed or left out or unnoticed.
Mistakes happen I agree, but so much of what Johnson did felt like deliberate choices he made knowing fans wouldn’t like them. He got too much up his own ass in making a film to subvert expectations that he broke Star Wars for a lot of us.
I'm more forgiving of Lucas in that regard as he may have had a general outline of what he wanted, but elements changed along the way. The sequels had much more to work off of.
I think that’s another failing of his film in my eyes. I wanted the sequels to correct some of the wrongs that Lucas did in the past. Instead they’ve just wound up making certain parts worse.
Last edited by Mike86; 03-05-19 at 12:59 PM.
#3838
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
Mistakes in movies happen all the time - the time slate at the beginning of Spider-man: Homecoming was completely incorrect and hundreds of people who know the MCU world forward and back saw that before it went out.
All this back and forth on TLJ boils down to the fact that if Johnson didn't make the movie a certain fan wanted, then that fan will rake him over the coals for every little flaw and inconsistency. While in something like the OT, you have Leia kissing her brother to make Han jealous and then George Lucas gets out there and claims he planned out 9 films. No he fucking didn't Luke and Leia are not supposed to be related in ESB. No amount of fanwanking or Lucas bullshit can make sense of that. These things are still MOVIES and stuff gets missed or left out or unnoticed.
All this back and forth on TLJ boils down to the fact that if Johnson didn't make the movie a certain fan wanted, then that fan will rake him over the coals for every little flaw and inconsistency. While in something like the OT, you have Leia kissing her brother to make Han jealous and then George Lucas gets out there and claims he planned out 9 films. No he fucking didn't Luke and Leia are not supposed to be related in ESB. No amount of fanwanking or Lucas bullshit can make sense of that. These things are still MOVIES and stuff gets missed or left out or unnoticed.
#3839
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
Disney rushed these films out. They had just paid billions for the property and wanted to start releasing films and associated merch as soon as possible.
#3840
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
I loved the movie so that interview didn't really rile up any of my feathers. And like the other poster said in the IX thread, what matters is that it DID end up on screen. Because even if he did give Mark that one extra take, he could have just as easily cut it in editing.
My 2 cents. You may resume your regularly scheduled programming.
My 2 cents. You may resume your regularly scheduled programming.
#3841
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
Oh, and if you try and scour online for articles and quotes to back yourself up don’t bother. There are as many from the opposite side of the spectrum I'm sure.
Last edited by Mike86; 03-05-19 at 02:03 PM.
#3842
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
"Lucas NEVER had a plan! Except for the mountain of pre-production evidence and script rewrites which showed that he did!"
#3843
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
The Secret History of Star Wars
Aka, "don't bother to show you're right, because I'll just assume I'm right regardless of evidence."
#3844
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
Are you talking about the OT? What preproduction elements or scripts for Star Wars showed that he had any inkling of the story twists and arc of the next two films?
#3845
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
I mean, everyone knows that Splinter of the Mind's Eye was written as a potential story for the second movie, right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splint...e_Mind%27s_Eye
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splint...e_Mind%27s_Eye
Last edited by Jay G.; 03-05-19 at 03:08 PM.
#3846
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
You truly are a piece of work aren’t you? I know all. My word is the word of God. How dare you question the creative genius of Rian Johnson, but of course I can tell you what George Lucas thought because I know all and that’s just that. If you try and prove me wrong I’ll just bring out my arsenal of articles and quotes that no one else really cares about, but I need to prove to everyone that I’m right. Lord dude get off of your high fucking horse.
#3847
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
It's a creative, collaborative project. This petty nitpicking is exactly why most EPKs and bonus features are unabashedly positive, because people will grab onto anything remotely negative and blow it out of proportion, even though filmmaking is full of these moments of figuring things out as they go, making changes, improvising, disagreements on set about things, etc.
It's a pattern with all of the OT characters in TLJ & TFA, that is why it's not a nitpick:
-Yoda acts like crazy/sarcastic Yoda in TLJ, yet he only acted like that in ESB BEFORE Luke knew who he was. He was testing him, but than he shows up in TLJ and starts acting like the ESB Yoda from the beginning?
-Yoda acts like crazy/sarcastic Yoda in TLJ, yet he only acted like that in ESB BEFORE Luke knew who he was. He was testing him, but than he shows up in TLJ and starts acting like the ESB Yoda from the beginning?
1) We had 3 crappy prequel films of Yoda acting wise. So maybe they wanted something different that WOULDN'T remind people of the PT.
2) ESB is the gold standard, and bringing back "crazy/wild eyed Yoda" reminds older fans of the OT, even if it doesn't make sense.
Again, I didn't like it, but I think those are the reasons.
-As I stated earlier that Chewy and Luke have very little dialogue together in TLJ, yet they've been friends for 30 years. Rian Johnson essentially has Chewy sit on the island like an Uber Driver.
A mistake. Definitely, but I don't think it was done intentionally.
-R2 is in shutdown mode for 90% of TFA, which never made any sense.
And again, we had 3 prequel films of R2 having the spotlight, flying around, lighting people on fire. From a commercial point of view, I think they just wanted to give audiences a break from that character, who now has a strong association to the awful prequels, as well as the OT.
-Of course Leia flying is one of dumbest things in the ST (but I will not blame Rian Johnson for that) as from what I read, Kathleen Kennedy recommended this (from the documentary).
Real opinion on why he changed that and left it in. He probably figured it was such a small win to let Hamill have after destroying Luke's character that he went with it. It doesn't change the other stuff he did in which he went out of his way to be disrespectful to the fans.
Is he on record as growing up hating Star Wars or something?
That's projection on your part.
How much is "ample time"? Disney announced the deal to buy Lucasfilm end of October, 2012, and immediately announced plans for the ST, with the new film out May 2015. So that's only 2 1/2 years to get the first film out, JJ came on in January 2013, and then Michael Arndt worked on his drafts for 10 months before Abrams and Kasdan took over, finishing in January 2014. So it took a year just to write one script. At this point the film was pushed back to December 2015. Meanwhile, Rogue One was started up in May 2014, so a studio that previously did a movie every few years was dealing with two concurrent productions. RJ was hired in June 2014. Filming on TFA had just started in May.
Disney rushed these films out. They had just paid billions for the property and wanted to start releasing films and associated merch as soon as possible.
How much is "ample time"? Disney announced the deal to buy Lucasfilm end of October, 2012, and immediately announced plans for the ST, with the new film out May 2015. So that's only 2 1/2 years to get the first film out, JJ came on in January 2013, and then Michael Arndt worked on his drafts for 10 months before Abrams and Kasdan took over, finishing in January 2014. So it took a year just to write one script. At this point the film was pushed back to December 2015. Meanwhile, Rogue One was started up in May 2014, so a studio that previously did a movie every few years was dealing with two concurrent productions. RJ was hired in June 2014. Filming on TFA had just started in May.
Disney rushed these films out. They had just paid billions for the property and wanted to start releasing films and associated merch as soon as possible.
Sometimes we don't realize just how difficult it is to create a workable story, translate it into a screenplay, then go into production and wrap everything up by the deadline.
Fans like us MIGHT have a better grasp on how characters might act, since we've had all this time since childhood to think about it, creating our own stories in our heads. But when it comes down to also making the story relevant to modern audiences, and creating story elements that surprise fans and non-fans a like, that's something else entirely different. It's a professional art as well as a business.
I thought it was bullshit how they teased the fans like Luke, Han, and Leia will be back, and then we get 10 seconds of Luke at the very ending of TFA.
But that's what got people in seats for TLJ.
Then I was pissed that we didn't get to see the Knights of Ren in TLJ.
But that is what's going to get me to see the next one.
It's smart on their part.
There's a lot of different factors that screenwriters and directors have to take into account, and while I agree with a lot of the criticisms of the new films, I don't believe at all, that the intention of Johnson or anyone else involved in these films is to disrespect the fans or give them the middle finger.
#3848
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
The idea that Rian Johnson intentionally gave a "middle finger" to fans is ridiculous. He just didn't do things that some fans wanted him to do. That doesn't mean he was intentionally attacking fans. Talk about a high horse
#3849
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
Is there any evidence that supports this?
#3850
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
I can concede I'm wrong, if presented with the evidence I'm wrong. Which is why I asked Hokeyboy for an example of the "mountain " of evidence he claimed. So go ahead, prove me wrong, provide some evidence.