coli

I feel that way and I don't think it's contradictory at all. This isn't some standalone original movie (or even a sequel in some respects like Temple of Doom or Last Crusade where you can watch that movie without Raiders of the Lost Ark and still get the jist of the characters and story), it's Part 8 of a 9 part story. In that respect, it doesn't jive very well (IMO) with the previous movies. For example, every Saga movie ends with atleast one Skywalker shown to a montage of John Williams music, where this movie shows Broomboy. I could go on and on with examples, but they have been debated ad nauseum. Broomboy ending would have been perfect for a standalone movie because I understand what Rian Johnson was getting at in that respect.

Now if you are asking me if I just sat down to watch TLJ and not think about the big picture Saga story? I really enjoy it, and I actually think Rian Johnson is a very talented filmmaker as I love the look of the movie and I like his style too (it is much more stylized then TFA).

I think it totally makes sense why the critics and a lot of casual fans I know like/love the movie, where it seems like the ones that have a problem with it are some of the hardcore fans who look at it as one big story. I'm not going to get into what % liked or disliked it as it's an impossible debate to have on either side as I can only talk about the people I know personally.

Rob V

We need a thread about why CinemaSins ISN'T awful and we can argue for 147 pages, with valid points and counter-points, about the polarizing nature of it.

GoldenJCJ

Are there people who use CinemaSins as a legitimate critical analyses of films? I like CinemaSins but have never looked at them as anything more than some goofy entertainment.

And they’ve been super nitpicky with their sins for a long time. Frankly, as they’ve become more popular and have done more and more films their sins have started to make less sense.

wishbone

  Some-where over the rainbow...  

Hokeyboy

at everyone taking CinemaSins so damn seriously.

They're just entertainment. They're not film criticisms or reviews. Just yuks. Or lack of yuks. YMMV

Hokeyboy

You have earned my eternal gratitude.

Hokeyboy

This is an odd response. "Why should anyone do anything goofy and fun on the Internet when their are starving children in their community?"

There's room for everything.

Draven

Sure, but some things are obviously a bigger waste of time than others.

Mike86

We get it. It’s a waste of time to those of you that liked the film. It’s just an opinion. It’s no different than the videos out there that praise it with detailed explanation.

Jay G.

To me, it's a question of "what am I getting out of this?" It's fine to be selfish with some of your time, and to even "waste" it on activities others don't necessarily give value to.

When I'm participating in a thread, I'm considering whether the thread is entertaining or intellectually stimulating. Am I still getting value out of it, or is it just an exercise in frustration/anger? If, like Franchot, revisiting this thread just makes you upset about the film all over again, I don't think that's necessarily healthy or beneficial to you or anyone else, and it may be time to bow out.

Hokeyboy

But who's to say? Watching sports, reading for fun, gaming, making videos, arts and crafts... anything can be viewed as a pointless waste of time from the POV of those who don't care for that particular endeavor.

EXAMPLE: I follow the Marathon Investigation blog. The owner is a Business Analyst and runner who, in his spare time, analyzes race data and outs cheaters who claim false times, false winning placements/prizes, or false entries into the "major" marathons (Boston, New York, etc.)

Every time he busts someone and they have their awards/entries stripped and are "outed" as cheats for all the world to see, their defenders/apologists always flood the comments with "SO glad you have all the time in the world for this while there are people starving" etc. It's a bit of an emotional fallacy, no?

Josh-da-man

The “Everything Wrong With” videos often point out some valid plot holes and other issues with the movies they cover, but there’s a humor component as well. It is what it is.

And at leas their videos are concise and fast-moving.

Josh-da-man

CinemaSins is hardly the biggest waste of time on youtube.

Considering all of the dross on there, it wouldn’t even make the top 95% of youtube crap.

Josh-da-man

That’s my take on Alien3.

It is a good movie taken on its own merits, but it doesn’t really work as the third installment of an ongoing franchise. It kills off two characters in the beginning who could have been used and expanded upon in future installments. It is too much of a remake of the first film in the franchise after the second film expanded the universe. After the second film expanded and escalated the threat, A3 deescalated it.

coli

You have over 7,000+ posts on a message board of faceless people each day, so we all 'waste' our free time in our own way.

tanman

Seriously...It's like everything has to be a thesis defense with some people.

story

People seem to be missing my point. It's not that making a YouTube video or being online or talking here and there about what you don't like is a waste of time. It's about actively choosing to spend hours and hours making a video about what sucks and putting it out there to say this, this is my contribution. Really? That's how we're going to spend the precious little time we have on this sun-revolving rock? Complaining?

Is that what we need more of in the world? Showing why something isn't good? Demonstrating how actually we know much better how to make art than the people who make art? Some of these videos transcend into the art of thoughtful critique, and many are gripe sessions that perpetuate anger and generate ad clicks (all the money behind the pit of perpetuating negativity online does not sit well with me). Look, I'm all for the freedom to say why you don't like something. I'm all for the freedom to spend hours creating a video to talk about how much you don't like something. But at a certain point, one has to wonder if it's time to focus on what you do like, what you do think is helping the world, what you do to bring change. There's an unfortunate skewing of priorities. The worst date I ever went on, the person kept telling me everything they didn't like. What movies do you like? Here's a list of what I don't like. Read anything lately? Here's a list of the books I don't like. Mmm, this is good coffee. I don't like my coffee. That's not a good way to be. And that's how parts of the internet feels, sometimes, and YouTube feels like a big piece of that, to me.

I am going to go out on a (judgmental, I suppose, so I'll own it) limb here and suggest that if one made a Venn diagram of people who make videos about movies they hate and people who are actively trying to improve their communities, the crossover would be small. Not only that, there's likely a certain percentage of that crossover who think their videos about movies they hate is their activity to improve their community.

Of course, I could be wrong. And I could be a hypocrite. But I'm not going to make a 45-minute video about it.

fumanstan

Jumping from guys who probably enjoy making stupid YouTube videos for fun just because it entertains them and their audiences to a critique on changing the world seems odd to me and awfully judgmental. Most people's hobbies or jobs, whatever they may be, probably aren't helping anyone but themselves or their own circles of life.

In a 3500+ post internet forum thread about a movie with space wizards, it feels like a weird place to critique what people do with their time and their benefit to society.

I spent my time reading things online, watching sports and movies, and playing video games. Pretty sure that's not helping anyone or my community. And i'm ok with that.

Franchot

Well, right now you're complaining about people wasting time complaining so I can't see your way, style, and time spent of complaining being any more righteous than their way, style, and time complaining, even though you point out that you want to use that precious time to stop world poverty. Maybe, just maybe, those who are making these videos about how everything sucks are doing their share by donating money to the poor and helping out at homeless shelters or what have you. Who knows? How much of themselves do they have to give to selfless endeavors? Until worldwide poverty is eradicated?

And I may sound flippant, and I somewhat agree with you, but at the same time if that's how people choose to "waste" their time (instead of using that time to better the world we are currently living in), who am I to say they're wrong?

Personally, I abhor factory farming and wish everyone would be a vegetarian or vegan. Therefore, are people who savor eating animals less than me? No, they're different than me. But I will share my views with these meat eaters should they want to listen. Just as the people who can't buy into TLJ being a fantastic movie aren't any less than the people who think it is and will continually proclaim why it isn't fantastic in their eyes when they are continually put down.

That question has been answered many years ago.

https://video.search.yahoo.com/searc...a&action=click

tanman

No I totally get you. I think it was just a weird place to bring it up and a weird trigger for it. Cinemasins is just entertainment. It is them complaining and being nitpicky but it's not to be taken seriously.

And as for youtube I think you're watching the wrong channels. Youtube is actually a wonderful place where anyone can upload whatever videos so yeah there are some negative things out there but if that's all you think there is you're dead wrong. There is so much wonderful content made by very talented people that otherwise wouldn't have a platform to express their artform/passion/talent. I for one have learned quite a bit following certain channels that line up with my interests. There are so many wonderful artists, singers, etc that might not be talented enough or (more likely marketable enough) to have a super star career but at least get to share what they love to do with a moderately sized audience and more importantly one that appreciates what they do. I was at first upset when they started showing commercials but actually it has allowed for much better content since now people can monetize their channels and actually make better content since their niche can actually make them a living now. So yeah there are a lot of stupid videos and negative videos but maybe don't focus on those?

coli

I get what you're saying about making 'negative' content, but I disagree with you when people bring up that the same person could be doing 'better' things in society with their free time. As I said, we all have free time and usually waste it on meaningless things in life. It's call unwinding and we all need to that or we will go nuts. You can't be serious 100% of the time in your life and dedicated 24/7 to every cause, as sometimes life should be about you and you only.

In saying that, I agree that people who make a living off of negativity are just fucking annoying. I see it in all walks of life now (Sports, Movies, TV shows, Politics, etc). Sadly, it works because there are sheep out there who can't think for themselves and eat it up.

Brack

TLJ works way more as a film of an ongoing franchise than Alien 3. If Luke was killed off by Rei or Luke killed Rei right after getting the light saber, I think your argument would be strong. That didn’t happen, obviously.

Oh wait, the light saber throw was the equivalent.

Give me a break.

Josh-da-man

I never actually sai....

Oh, fuck it.

story

Let's go bowling, Dude.

Hokeyboy

Why spend 200 million dollars and 3 years of total production time filming a movie when you utilize those resources eradicating hunger in developing nations? If I only had a Venn Diagram...