Ranger

Well, the last three HP movies were the best ones.

JJ has an interesting challenge for Ep 9 without Ford and the huge initial excitment. Ep 9 should have some interesting retcons.

tanman

I agree with Rob V the scope is all wrong.

Darth Vader and his ships chasing the small but important Millenium Falcon is just a small part of the Empire and Rebel Alliance. They do an excellent job showing that there are still other things going on in the universe and the Empire and Rebel Alliance. During the battle of Hoth you can tell that the Rebels (although much smaller than the Empire) are a formidable and more importantly believable threat to the Empire. In the end you can clearly see that there is still more at stake with that beautiful ending shot on the hospital ship and several rebel ships still at their disposal.

With the ST they've done a terrible job showing how extensive the reach of the First Order is. Sometimes it feels like they have control over the entire galaxy and sometimes it feels like they only have a couple of ships at their disposal. TLJ feels more like a soccer match with the fate of the galaxy coming down to two ships one slowly chasing after the other. And then at the end the entire rebel force fits into the tiny Millenium Falcon? I agree the scope just feels off.

Ranger

Rotten Tomatoes:

TFA - 93% 8.2/10
TLJ - 90% 8.1/10

A little different from IMDB.

melasnus

Jay G.

That's just the "general consensus" among a certain group of Star Wars fans though. I think it's far to easy to convince oneself that the particular internet echo chamber you're in actually represents the "general consensus". The other possibility is that people that disliked the PT are the ones that can't shut up about it decades later, while the ones that like them are simply tired of defending them online and just quietly enjoy them instead. Meanwhile, there's a whole general audience that got to see space battles and laser swords, and were satisfied with that.

And I'm saying this as someone who really hates the PT.

Rob V

Word... they fucked up my childhood hero!!!!

Supermallet

Lighten up Francis. The TLJ haters are so much more fragile than the TLJ fans.

Franchot

We "haters" have major regrets and disappointments that with all the talent and money available we get what we get with these Star War trilogy movies.

(The Return of The Jedi missed being good by a mile--it was a passable and average movie. The Last Jedi and the PT trilogy missed being good by several country miles.)

---

mcnabb

In fairness, those were roughly the same type of complaints from the fans that hated Anakin in the PT. He was a whiny bitch in AOTC, he was a creeper around Padme, he wasn't cool, etc. I'm sure there will be the same type of complaints in the Solo Thread about a Young Han when it comes out in May. When you take an iconic character and you give a backstory on him, or you change his character arc 30 years later, you are bound to get fans who don't like it. You don't hear any 'Jyn Erso' ruined my childhood comments, because she was a new character and they had the freedom to do whatever they wanted with her.

RoboDad

If you are going to use pejorative terms such as "haters" to refer to those who are less than ecstatic about the movie, it is only fair that you accept an equally pejorative term for yourselves, namely "apologists".

Because the reality is, we are ALL Star Wars fans.

Supermallet

Calm down everyone, my comment was a direct mirror of a comment TGM made to me when I pointed out how rude he was being by making a dismissive remark when I was talking about how much I liked the movie. I don’t actually care if someone likes or dislikes the movie.

TGM

#triggered

Franchot

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/mark-hamil...lebrities.html

Luke returns as a Force ghost in Episode IX? Won't that be incredible?

Maybe Disney can do a computer-generated model of Alec Guinness as Obi Wan and he and Luke can play a game of holographic chess.

Better yet, have the Force ghosts of Princess Leia, Mace Windu, Qui-Gon Jinn fuck with Kylo Rey's mind for two and a half hours. Maybe throw in Space Ghost for good measure.

Supermallet

So now people are complaining if Luke comes back as a force ghost? Why even bother seeing the movies at that point?

Josh-da-man

I would rather they not push the "Force Ghost" angle too much.

If Luke is going to be a Force Ghost for a bunch of scenes in IX, then I fear it will come off as silly. In TLJ we already saw Yoda's ghost calling down lightning. And if Luke's ghost trains Rey, then that just seems a little too much. It seems like a plot device that could be horribly abused going forward. Before long, everyone will be showing up as a ghost.

Supermallet

According to the movies, only five Jedi can actually come back as a force ghost: Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Yoda, Anakin, and Luke. I doubt Luke’s ghost will actually train Rey, but I could easily imagine a scene where he counsels her the same way as Obi-Wan does in ROTJ.

TheMovieman

So, just watched this for a second time... and have the same issues as the first, just this go around I was anticipating some of the more annoying parts (still hate the Vice Admiral Holdo parts and the Canto Bight side adventure was just a drag).

rennervision

Why would Rey need to be trained in IX by Luke as a Force Ghost or by anyone else for that matter?

Supermallet

She has the Jedi texts and clearly has a lot of skill in using the Force already.

I rewatched the prequels this week and in TPM Qui-Gon mentions that Anakin, a young child, is able to use the Force for things like pod racing, which no other human can do, among other things. I’m not sure why some people are so up in arms over Rey, who appears to have been chosen by the Force to be a balance against Kylo Ren and Snoke, being able to use the Force without proper training. Lots of comments about her being a Mary Sue but no similar comments about Anakin or Luke, both of whom used the Force to their advantage on multiple occasions with little to no training.

melasnus

Truth.

That is EXACTLY what bothers me; Disney has absolutely NO excuses.
They had every possible advantage/tool to make great films and managed to screw the pooch anyway.
You bring up a good point.
I don't understand why people complained about Anakin being an a-hole.
He is SUPPOSED to be an a-hole!!!!!
He becomes the twisted, evil Darth Vader for fnck's sake!
It doesn't happen by chance.
Anakin evolves in to Darth...any other explanation would be ludicrous and downright laughable.

brayzie

Obviously they're he-man woman haters who think The Phantom Menace is a great Star Wars movie, and that it was awesome when an 8 year old Anakin does random shit in a star fighter and accidentally blows up the Trade Federation's ship. And nobody had a problem with Midichlorians either.


For me, I remember Luke getting his ass kicked and his hand cut off when he faced off with another Force user for the first time. And that was AFTER practicing his Force ability for a year AND after training with Yoda.

Rey faces off with another Force user for the first time, with no training whatsoever, and kicks his ass and disfigures him.

Supermallet

I didn’t say anything about he-man woman haters, nor did I say that everyone loved TPM. But of all the complaints I ever heard about TPM, Anakin being able to use the Force without training wasn’t one of them.

Also, there are some significant differences between Luke v Vader and Rey v Kylo in those respective films. Vader was a fully trained Jedi and fully trained Sith Lord who was setting a deliberate trap for Luke by using his friends as bait. Luke was at a disadvantage from the start. Kylo is not a fully trained anything, can barely keep his emotions in check (and had just killed his own father, talk about emotional turmoil!), and desperately wishes he were as powerful as Darth Vader. He underestimated Rey multiple times, and was badly injured by Chewie’s bowcaster before the fight even began.

Even if people felt Rey was a Mary Sue in TFA (and even if she’s overpowered in the movie I don’t see her as an author stand-in, a critical component of that trope), she’s certainly not treated that way in TLJ. The most she does is fight a few of the Praetorian Guards and then lift some rocks. Kylo kills Snoke, Luke defeats Kylo, Rey ends up lifting rocks. She doesn’t even convince Luke to go with her and help, Yoda eventually gives Luke the push he needs. So I really don’t see how after TLJ anyone could still consider her a Mary Sue.

Draven

Rey was already a skilled staff fighter and Ren was severely wounded before their fight began. But don’t let the details get in the way of a good rant

mcnabb

Yes and no. Ren was shot by Chewie so he was injured as JJ clearly shows him bleeding at the start. The first part of the battle, Ren is winning or has the advantage as Rey is backtracking the whole time. Once Ren says, You need a teacher, I can teach you the ways of the Force....” (I believe that is the exact line but someone can correct me.

I believe that is where the scene is up to interpretation as I Rey says, “The Force?” That is where Something clicked inside her and then she goes on and whoops Ren’s ass.

Now Pre-TLJ, I assumed Luke mind wiped the Force from her after she was trained as a kid and was dropped off on Jakku to save her from the slaughter of Kylo Ren and Knights of Ren. So it all clicked for her at that point of the duel, and her training skills were now in full force.

But after TLJ revealed she wasn’t related to Luke nor was ever trained with the Force, I don’t know what to believe about Rey. I’m sure the TLJ novel probably gives some explanation, but I’m not a fan when the book needs to explain something this important.

Just my take as I’m sure others will interpret differently....

Draven

Yes and no? Rey wasn't a noob to combat with a weapon and Kylo had taken a blaster bolt powerful enough to knock a stormtrooper 20 feet. Hardly the same as farmboy Luke facing off against a full-power Vader.