And I thought the way they killed Phasma in the movies was bad...

Literally, Johnson has no fucking clue what he's doing.

I actually like this better and wish they had left it in. It gives a bit more depth to Phasma showing that she is really only in it for herself. Which is also why she gave up the shield code in TFA. Anything to stay alive.

Plus, being shot with a giant cannon is a better way to go out than just having the floor collapse beneath you.

Neither is ideal, and they did a shitty job of exploring Phasma's backstory. But to me its sort of like Kylo. I hate how they Emo'ed him up too. I never thought they should have taken his mask off.

I don't think Phasma is all that special in terms of self-interest, it's pretty clear that's true for everyone higher up in the First Order - Hux, Kylo, Snoke, etc. I'm sort of surprised they all don't have goatees.

I agree. Yes, the scene probably could have been edited/reshot to improve it a bit, but it adds much more to the conflict between Finn and Phasma, and the ending is much more "Star Wars" than what we got.

that deleted scene is exactly why he did a shitty job. god what a waste

Has it been documented that Guinness was only in it for the first movie? I thought Lucas had him killed for story reasons—Luke needs his mentors to pass on in order to claim the mantle of Jedi Knight and complete his hero’s journey.

Also I’ve been reading the novelization. It’s a nice alternative to the movie, and some of the more objectionable parts of the film play out better in the book. It’s not a total 180 from the film nor some huge revelation, but I’ve been enjoying it (and it’s the first film novelization I’ve read since I was a kid).

It's a popular urban legend, and Guinness himself claimed it to be true in 1999, but in truth, the first revision of the script in which Obi-Wan was offed was written before he signed onto the project.

https://www.cbr.com/movie-legends-re...-in-star-wars/

While I agree with you on that point, I think the point fans get stuck on is Luke totally shutting himself off from Han/Leia. Yes, a lot of stuff he did in the OT was on a whim (throwing his lightsaber down against the Emperor). But he always came to the aid of Han/Leia, first in Empire when he is training with Yoda, and then to Jabba's Palace in ROTJ.

That is why I'm really torn on TLJ (and I want to see it a few more times so I can really digest his character because multiple viewings do give a different perspective). One one hand, I have no problem with Luke wanting to end his affiliation with the Force (simply because each generation continues to produce an Anakin Skywalker/Ben Solo Darkside Jedi), yet still keep in touch with Han/Leia to jive with the OT.

Considering the one he failed was Han and Leia's (only?) kid, I can understand him wanting to sequester himself, though. And since he cut himself off, he didn't really know how big the FO had become, though he should have been able to extrapolate what Ben Solo would've become unchecked.

You could argue that he should have run to rescue Leia as soon as Rey came to him, but even Rey didn't know at that point how badly the Resistance was forced into a corner; shoot, at the end of the last movie, I think most of us assumed they were in a pretty decent spot.

From a fanboy perspective, we were robbed of the three reuniting (and now we will never get it), though we did at least get Luke and Leia together. I'm actually a little surprised that for all the cgi they use in these movies, they didn't try to do a flashback scene with the three of them.

That is exactly what doesn't work for me. Luke realizes he has created a monster, knows what he could become, and his response is... to run away and hide? "Sure, I created this hideous thing that could end up taking over the galaxy, but hey, not my problem! See you later, folks!"

Which, again, is exactly what his mentors did.

No, they didn't. They fought against Vader and the Emperor as long as they could, but when they realized that continuing to fight was certain death, not only for themselves but potentially for the Skywalker twins, they chose to protect them at all costs.

Obi-Wan crippled Anakin and could have finished him if he believed he was truly lost. Yoda took on Palpatine by himself and if you classify that as a defeat, it wasn't by much. Is it too much to believe that if he and Obi-Wan could take him on together, he could be defeated? Is it better to wait 20 years and then send Luke against both Vader and Palpatine by himself?

And were they really protecting them at all costs? Yeah, Obi-Wan was close to Luke, but who was protecting Leia? Yoda was hiding in a cave on a planet with no other intelligent life just like Luke.

I'm really not trying to be obtuse, and maybe I have to watch (shudder) the prequels again, but I really didn't get that from the end of the prequels. In fact, they never would have even found Luke if Obi Wan wasn't hiding there in the first place, and they did a terrible job protecting Leia (who Vader sensed no connection with even when he had her hostage). The best I could come up with is that they believed the Force would balance things out, but then you could say Luke thought the same thing and actually came to that conclusion, that one way or another things would balance out in the end anyway with or without his involvement.

That is all to say that this movie has flaws in logic just like the venerated previous movies.

To me it was perfectly clear in the PT that Yoda and Kenobi ran with their tails between their legs. Leia was given to a Senator from a destroyed government. How is that protecting her? Luke was given to Vader's step brother on the planet that he grew up on and where his mother was killed. Were they doing an opposite bit and trying to hide him in plain sight?

All hope was lost because they decided they couldn't defeat the Emperor, even though Kenobi already defeated Vader and for some unexplained premise couldn't finish the job.

So wait, I'm supposed to believe that Kenobi could beat Vader at the absolute height of his powers but was afraid of him with a breathing mask and 3 artificial limbs?

If Kenobi killed off Vader at the end of Episode III, then there's no Vader in Episode 4, 5, 6.

(Who claims that Lucas had this whole trilogy logically planned out? I "guess" Vader could have been a Force Ghost in 4,5, 6, 7, 8, 9...)

My feeling that back in the OT (especially Episode 4), Jedi did not go around killing off people because that would tarnish the Jedi's "Light" side.

Mace wouldn't have fit into the OT with his cutting heads off and all.

I'd go a bit further and say that it might have been a good episode of a Star Wars tv series tangentially related to the main saga (like a live action Rebels) but it was an absolute disaster as part eight of a nine part saga.

I know that for Empire he had to be approached and a new contract had to be signed.

Like most Star Wars lore, there are multiple contradictory stories.

One has that Obi-Wan was killed off a Guiness' request because he hated the movie and didn't want to participate in the sequels.

Another has it that Lucas decided to kill Obi-Wan Kenobi during filming because after the Death Star escape he had nothing to do. Reportedly, Guiness was upset about this because he wanted to be a part of the sequels.

And third, that's how it was written in the shooting script.

Phasma is actually one of the things about TLJ that didn't bother me. She never felt like a particularly important character in either movie despite being played Gwendoline Christie, a prominent actress with genre cred and having her do lots of promotion and appearances.

When she's appearing on talk shows with the cast and doing tons of interviews, it makes it seem like she's going to be a major character, but in the movies she's essentially just another stormtrooper.

Maybe someone can get in touch with Alec Guinness' Force Ghost and get the true story.

(Then, again, Force Ghosts have a way of fucking with people just for laughs and giggles.)

It was totally different circumstances though. The Jedi order were not a military force so they depended on the clone troopers. At the time of Anakin and Palpatine's betrayal their entire army betrayed them and slayed most of the Jedi. They had very little hope for regaining control and they knew it. Yoda went on one last ditch effort to try to kill Palpatine and failed. He knew he had limited time before the rest of Palpatine's guards and clone troopers would overwhelm him. Obi Wan failed as well because he couldn't finish the job because of his love for Anakin. So the only logical thing to do was to go into hiding as the last of the Jedi order so hopefully in some small way it could survive.

Luke and Ben on the other hand was totally different. As far as I know (I haven't read any of the tie in novels) the first order either did not exist or was very small. Luke's back wasn't against the wall he just fled out of embarasement and couldn't face Han or Leia after failing them. That seemed to lead to the First Order gaining a powerful new ally. So it was out of selfishness that he fled whereas with Obi Wan and Yoda it was out of necessity.

Thank you.

That's exactly why I (and others) have a problem with it. She features prominently in promos and interviews and is a really awesome character design but doesn't get to do much at all in the movies. That useless Rose character had more to do. Hell even her sister probably had as much screen time as Phasma did.

Well maybe Phasma will be more of a badass outside of canon like Boba Fett.