Giantrobo

But it's not based on two videos alone. I posted my video because ET was making a point that he has a history of this type of behavior with their female correspondents. Hell, it's on tape for all to see.


No...He has 8 women accusing him of "inappropriate behavior, harassment" INCLUDING unwanted touching. So it's not just "Harmless flirting".

Mike86

Okay, in that case I’m admittedly ignorant. I’ve been following his a bit more closely than others but yours was the first video I saw. I don’t think I read about other accusers. If it’s more that’s a damn shame as I’ve always liked him a lot.

B5Erik

We have no evidence of that. Just allegations. So my statement stands - we haven't seen anything approaching true harassment. Just a horny old movie star acting like a dork. There may be more that he's done, but given the current hypersensitive, less than zero tolerance environment, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until evidence comes along proving his guilt.

DaveyJoe

That's the thing, if you're going to comment on how the Morgan Freeman case doesn't seem so bad, you should read up on it first. This is the reason why for decades women have felt afraid to step forward with issues of sexual harassment. Because for so many men, the knee-jerk reaction is to dismiss, ignore, or confuse the issue and attempt to portray the accusers as unreliable, attention-seeking, or opportunists.

Here's the original article:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/24/enter...ons/index.html

Nobody is saying this is as bad as what Weinstein or Spacey did, but nobody should have to put up with this shit in the work place. And it's not my place to tell a woman what she should consider harmless.

Mike86

If there’s evidence to support the accusations I’m not going to ignore it. I do think there are some instances though where things are either blown out of proportion or just taken for truth without backing evidence just because of the #MeToo movement currently.

DaveyJoe

You're right and I think that is the case with some of the accusations(Aziz Ansari for one) but with some guys on the internet it seems that is almost always the default reaction and it shouldn't be, particularly when there are multiple accusers as with the Morgan Freeman situation.

Mike86

Fair enough. I should have read more before jumping to his defense.

slop101

Give him the benefit of a doubt? Someone who's behavior has been no big secret, over his multiple accusers who have nothing to gain by coming forward? That's fucked up dude. Like, why does he get the benefit of a doubt and not the others? Because you like his acting? Again, that's fucked up dude.

B5Erik

Nothing to gain? Lawsuit, anyone??

Look, my point is simply this - due process has been thrown out the window with the metoo movement. Fuck due process!! Grab the pitchforks and torches!!!!

Presumption of innocence? Fuck that! String him up!!!

Is it likely that he's engaged in some rather juvenile behavior that crossed the line? Absolutely. But there was ZERO in that story that didn't happen in my junior high almost 40 years ago. Basically, he behaved like Denny Crane. Not cool, but I'm going to save my outrage for people like Weinstein and Cosby. Freeman deserves a slap on the wrist an a little public shaming and then people need to move on - unless he continues that behavior, in which case the guy has a serious problem.

A lot of people these days seem to want to give up the right to be offended by removing everything that is remotely possibly offensive.

I guess I'm getting pissed off because this kind of outrage over something relatively minor is having a chilling effect on how people can behave at work. I was listening to the radio this morning, and they were talking about how a man can't compliment a woman on ANYTHING anymore. New haircut? Nope, didn't notice. Cool new boots? Nope, didn't notice that either. Can't tell her that you think the haircut looks good or the boots are cool. Not if you don't want to be accused of harassment. It's pathetic. That's where this is going, hell, in a lot of workplaces it's already there.

People are not being allowed to act like human beings anymore because the overreactive PC police can't handle it.

So, yeah, Freeman probably did cross the line and deserves to be called on it, but none of the accusations rise to the level of being worthy of the tone of that story. He's not Cosby and he's not Weinstein, but the tone of that story makes him seem quite sinister rather than just the out of hand randy old man that he is.

Sonic

Yup time to turn gay. That is greatly more accepted.

DaveyJoe

Since when do we notice haircuts and new shoes?

B5Erik

Since we started working side by side with women on a daily basis, maybe? What would work better for you? A cool new jacket?

The point being - you can't say anything nice to a woman on a personal level in some workplaces because they've outlawed it. You can't be a human being. Heaven forbid they may somehow find it threatening or offensive and sue the company.

There is no sense of perspective anymore. Everything's bad - almost equally bad. Offenses have almost no gradation anymore to the PC police. It's gotten beyond out of hand.

People are going to get to the point where they say, "I don't give a shit," and there could be a significant backlash to all the nonsense. It's NOT all equal, and most personal comments are NOT offensive, threatening, or harassing, but we're being told that it is.

There has been a HUGE problem in Hollywood, and Weinstein & Cosby are the poster children for that problem. But going after Morgan Freeman with such vigor and anger and disdain is unwarranted. He's an old man who thinks he's charming and funny in a lascivious way. He thinks he's Denny Crane. Now he knows better. Now he knows what a clumsy old dork he really is and how stupid he looks. One would hope that he feels bad about how uncomfortable he made those women feel. He should. His career may now be over. Should it be? I don't know.

But the focus should be on those abusing their power to coerce women into doing things they don't want to do, or worse, making them do it by physical force and then threatening their future employment if they report it. Those are the real problems that have been hidden away for far too long.

Draven

Please post any evidence that telling a female coworker they have cool boots is now grounds for termination. Any evidence at all. If it’s happening everywhere now it should be easy to find. And “I heard it on the radio” doesn’t count.

fujishig

Apologies, but this seems like a radio personality hot take. Do you really think that you're going to be reported to HR for complimenting someone's boots? Really? You just admitted Freeman crossed the line and are complaining more about the tone of the media. I agree that the media sensationalized it, and that there are different degrees of offenses, but it wasn't just complimenting someone's boots. Are people really seeing a "chilling effect" at work caused by this?

Now if you're the boss or in a position of authority, you have to be careful, but that goes beyond male/female interaction, and that's mainly so HR can cover for you if someone complains that they feel coerced by your position over them.

B5Erik

I just work for a major corporate business, and it's almost that bad. I have complimented my co-workers (equal positions, same pay grade) on things like that a few times over the years, and a couple times I have actually gotten the response, "Thank you, but you better be careful who you say that kind of thing to, you could get into trouble." And that was before metoo.

Asking, "Did you change your hair?" And following it up with a simple, "It looks good," is as benign as it gets, but some people (not a lot, but some) WILL report you to HR for that kind of thing, and HR will take action - again, before metoo.

So when I hear things like what I heard on the radio I know at my company we're 90% there already. After the metoo thing, with them going after anyone for anything they've ever said - even if it wasn't really all that bad - corporations are going to get really scared about possible lawsuits if they don't clamp down on any kind of human interaction between genders that could possibly be misconstrued as, "Sexual harassment." That's the side effect of this wave of retribution. They're taking everyone down, and it will have a chilling effect on how people can behave at work. It won't just stop harassment, it will go farther than that.

People in Hollywood got away with a lot of reprehensible things for decades, but there will be collateral damage as people go after not only them, but anyone else guilty of even the slightest offenses.

Mabuse

And there are women who are looking for a reason to overturn the apple cart. I’ve worked in a two different workplaces where women have whispered to me, “The stuff that’s happened around here with So and So, I could sue for millions, but I won’t because I respect Somebody too much.” Sue or shut up already.

I propose we flip and start treating the ladies like one of the guys. “New boots huh? Whada think you’re fucking Han Solo, dork? Nice boots!”

fujishig

Did anyone actually get in trouble for complimenting someone on their boots or hair? An HR warning? Anything? Part of HR's job is to shield the company from harm, but I don't see this overstep anywhere, nor do I see it reported anywhere. We don't have sensationalist stories where an actor complimented someone and they were chastised for it. Even if you argue that the Freeman story is too much of a reaction considering what he did, I think most still see it as inappropriate. This seems like a slippery slope argument that has no basis in reality.

B5Erik

I work for a large corporate business. They have everyone go through training for this. "Unwanted," or "Unwelcome," comments per company guidelines can include compliments if they are at all perceived to be sexual in nature, even if they are not intended that way. It's real, and that was before metoo.

Nesbit

I've worked for many corporations with similar training. I've never heard of anyone getting written up for complimenting anyone on anything as long as it was done within the boundaries of normal human behavior Has it happened? Sure. Lots of things have.

Giantrobo

Managers at my company just completed our Annual "Sexual Harassment" courses. It's online and due to CA law, it's a mandatory 2hours in length. It was all common sense stuff. Well, in it they made sure to cover Harassment, of and from, people under the LGBT umbrella. Believe it or not, many think same sex harassment/sexual harassment either "doesn't count" or "doesn't happen". Many also feel that way when the harasser is Female. It's like they they can only understand the "Male harassing a Female" model...

Giantrobo

You're in CA like me so I'll bet anything your company also made a point of saying a lot of that hinged on what "REASONABLE PEOPLE" would consider inappropriate. I know mine did. So this idea that a respectful off the cuff comment like "hey nice boots" would get you fired is not accurate. In other words, a complaint from an unreasonable someone about someone else respectfully complimenting their boots would likely get dismissed.

Now...to be fair to you...

If "Hey nice boots" went on all day every time you saw the person in the nice boots...THEN there could potentially be an issue. Because at that point you're not just making an innocent compliment. You most likely are making them uncomfortable with your repeated comment; and they might be stressing about coming around you in the office because they don't want hear you complimenting their boots YET AGAIN. You are at that point creating a "hostile workplace" and a "reasonable person" might say you're causing a problem.

Josh-da-man

Sort of comes down to how you define "reasonable."

slop101

I would never say "nice boots", because it sounds way too close to "nice boobs", and I woudln't want it to get misconstrued as so.

Sonic

The correct compliment would be "nice beaver".

TomOpus

Or "nice otter boots."