Joker (2019, D: Todd Phillips) -- S: Joaquin Phoenix
09-07-19, 12:29 PM
#601
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Joker (2019, D: Todd Phillips) -- S: Joaquin Phoenix
I don’t necessarily believe movies make people violent, and I’ve argued that in the past but we live in some weird times right now. Times where some mentally unstable people are waiting, just itching, for permission from ANYONE to kill people. They just need that push and filmmakers/writers/politicians etc. need to be responsible on the messages they put out there right now.
If i’m going to wag my finger at Trump for validating the El Paso shooter’s decision, I also need to wag my finger at anyone in Hollywood who might do the same thing.
09-07-19, 12:40 PM
#602
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Joker (2019, D: Todd Phillips) -- S: Joaquin Phoenix
Eh I just don’t like how everyone is fixated on attacking people for their evolving ideas. This forum is pretty much an archive of my thoughts. And it could be dissected endlessly.
09-07-19, 03:49 PM
#603
Re: Joker (2019, D: Todd Phillips) -- S: Joaquin Phoenix
She may very well be full of it regarding the character but she may have a point as far as the message in this latest movie. I’m not going to make any conclusions about The Joker’s message until I see it but I would have some reservations about it if it does in fact sympathize with his motivations for becoming a psychotic killer for all the reasons Antos mentions above.
But Antos’ criticism can be applied to any film that romanticizes or glorifies villainous/criminal lead characters. Is she going to have that same energy for other films, or only ones that she thinks will inspire white incels?
I don’t necessarily believe movies make people violent, and I’ve argued that in the past but we live in some weird times right now. Times where some mentally unstable people are waiting, just itching, for permission from ANYONE to kill people.
And there wasn’t any film at the time making the Joker a tragic or sympathetic character.
Incidentally, I found out Valiant Comics is still a thing after reading Antos' tweet.
Last edited by brayzie; 09-07-19 at 04:36 PM.
09-07-19, 03:52 PM
#604
DVD Talk Hero
09-07-19, 04:15 PM
#605
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Joker (2019, D: Todd Phillips) -- S: Joaquin Phoenix
Yikes. Weird thread.
This won the Golden Lion / top prize at Venice:
https://deadline.com/2019/09/joker-v...on-1202728733/
Here's a picture of the director of Hangover III and Due Date accepting the award with Pheonix:
This won the Golden Lion / top prize at Venice:
https://deadline.com/2019/09/joker-v...on-1202728733/
Here's a picture of the director of Hangover III and Due Date accepting the award with Pheonix:
09-07-19, 04:38 PM
#607
Re: Joker (2019, D: Todd Phillips) -- S: Joaquin Phoenix
Yikes. Weird thread.
This won the Golden Lion / top prize at Venice:
https://deadline.com/2019/09/joker-v...on-1202728733/
Here's a picture of the director of Hangover III and Due Date accepting the award with Pheonix:
This won the Golden Lion / top prize at Venice:
https://deadline.com/2019/09/joker-v...on-1202728733/
Here's a picture of the director of Hangover III and Due Date accepting the award with Pheonix:
09-07-19, 04:46 PM
#608
Re: Joker (2019, D: Todd Phillips) -- S: Joaquin Phoenix
Through this lens, Joker becomes a cautionary tale to rational viewers. No rational person would be motivated by watching the film to commit crimes. However, it's important to remember that incels are not rational.
09-07-19, 05:07 PM
#609
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Joker (2019, D: Todd Phillips) -- S: Joaquin Phoenix
I guess you could make that argument for any villain but your generalizing a bit much. This is specifically referring to a villain who became a villain through being picked on, bullied, and being an outcast in a judgmental and cruel society.
Last edited by GoldenJCJ; 09-07-19 at 05:15 PM.
09-07-19, 05:50 PM
#610
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Joker (2019, D: Todd Phillips) -- S: Joaquin Phoenix
I can see the criticisms, but at the same time people should be able to separate the messages from a film, tv show, video game, album, book, comic book, etc. from the reality they live in and be able to make rational decisions. Entertainment shouldn’t be a scapegoat for people with real life problems, mental or otherwise.
09-07-19, 06:14 PM
#611
Re: Joker (2019, D: Todd Phillips) -- S: Joaquin Phoenix
Antos implied that the Aurora shooter was inspired merely by the character of the Joker to go on a shooting rampage in a theater showing The Dark Knight Rises. So not only is the upcoming Joker film that *might* feature the character as a sympathetic and tragic character problematic, apparently so is a film like The Dark Knight, which features the Joker in a completely unsympathetic light.
And how many of these mass shooters were white men who were bullied and picked on? Is it mental illness, or is it merely lonely "white boys" who can't get laid who we have to watch out for? Are there other factors involved? I think the problem with Twitter is that it's hard to properly discuss the issue with the character limit, concept of "likes", and the format in general.
I can see the criticisms, but at the same time people should be able to separate the messages from a film, tv show, video game, album, book, comic book, etc. from the reality they live in and be able to make rational decisions. Entertainment shouldn’t be a scapegoat for people with real life problems, mental or otherwise.
A lot of corporations don't give a fuck about any harmful effects on society, they just care about profits and their bottom line.
09-07-19, 08:48 PM
#612
DVD Talk Godfather
Re: Joker (2019, D: Todd Phillips) -- S: Joaquin Phoenix
The difference between Dark Knight and this is that the Joker isn't the lead in the Dark Knight. You're not supposed to empathize with him. You also have a superhero good guy to root for.
I don't know why but I get a One Hour Photo vibe from this one.
I don't know why but I get a One Hour Photo vibe from this one.
09-07-19, 09:48 PM
#613
DVD Talk Legend
Thread Starter
09-07-19, 09:52 PM
#614
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Re: Joker (2019, D: Todd Phillips) -- S: Joaquin Phoenix
I don't know why but I get a One Hour Photo vibe from this one.
And again... I'm not sure if I already said this here... But I get the impression this Joker film WILL give the character some empathy while still showing how and why he's ultimately not a 'good person' to identify with, but I'm not convinced that two certain sub-sections of the audience will grasp this nuance; by which I mean, 1) those who will use his situation to justify their own hatred, and 2) those who will tear the movie apart for daring to show Joker any empathy at all.
And there will be a lot of both.
09-08-19, 03:05 AM
#615
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Joker (2019, D: Todd Phillips) -- S: Joaquin Phoenix
I think the big issue here isn't about the Joker as a character, but rather the way the character is being redefined and presented in this film.
Just because someone like Antos "loved" the Joker in 2013 doesn't invalidate her opinions because this movie just isn't a "Joker" movie, it's about a loser who lashes out against a society he feels wronged him, and it's having the Joker stuff tacked onto it.
The Joker is a pre-existing character with a lot of baggage (not the least of which is that the character seems to have already inspired one mass shooting by a crazed loner who identified with him), and it seems like the way this film is presenting both the idea of the Joker and the character who becomes him is something that could inspire a real life tragedy.
I think that his movie would have been better to just been about a guy who dresses up like a clown and not THE JOKER; combining all of these elements into a single movie seems like it could be a perfect storm.
Just because someone like Antos "loved" the Joker in 2013 doesn't invalidate her opinions because this movie just isn't a "Joker" movie, it's about a loser who lashes out against a society he feels wronged him, and it's having the Joker stuff tacked onto it.
The Joker is a pre-existing character with a lot of baggage (not the least of which is that the character seems to have already inspired one mass shooting by a crazed loner who identified with him), and it seems like the way this film is presenting both the idea of the Joker and the character who becomes him is something that could inspire a real life tragedy.
I think that his movie would have been better to just been about a guy who dresses up like a clown and not THE JOKER; combining all of these elements into a single movie seems like it could be a perfect storm.
09-08-19, 04:42 AM
#616
Re: Joker (2019, D: Todd Phillips) -- S: Joaquin Phoenix
Yikes. Weird thread.
This won the Golden Lion / top prize at Venice:
https://deadline.com/2019/09/joker-v...on-1202728733/
Here's a picture of the director of Hangover III and Due Date accepting the award with Pheonix:
This won the Golden Lion / top prize at Venice:
https://deadline.com/2019/09/joker-v...on-1202728733/
Here's a picture of the director of Hangover III and Due Date accepting the award with Pheonix:
09-08-19, 09:23 AM
#617
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Joker (2019, D: Todd Phillips) -- S: Joaquin Phoenix
I watched King of Comedy yesterday -- it's on PRIME, and it was excellent. What a performance by Deniro. Jerry Lewis was great, too.
09-09-19, 07:30 PM
#618
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Re: Joker (2019, D: Todd Phillips) -- S: Joaquin Phoenix
Just saw a leaked clip.
Damn.
....
DAMN.
Edit: two clips. Double damn.
Damn.
....
DAMN.
Edit: two clips. Double damn.
Last edited by Dan; 09-09-19 at 07:36 PM.
09-09-19, 08:02 PM
#619
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Joker (2019, D: Todd Phillips) -- S: Joaquin Phoenix
I saw a tv spot this weekend and they edited out the smoking. How dumb.
09-10-19, 10:08 AM
#621
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Re: Joker (2019, D: Todd Phillips) -- S: Joaquin Phoenix
^ Well, I'm not going to spoil anything here. :P
And I think the clips have been pulled, so I can't link them.
They're something, I tell you what.
And I think the clips have been pulled, so I can't link them.
They're something, I tell you what.
