I didn't really get the point of it. I guess that the idea was to invest more in Barbara, but they should've spent more time developing her relationship with her father as opposed to Batman, that would've at least attempted to give the ending more punch. If you cut the whole first 20 minutes out, it wouldn't effect the story flow at all. I suppose that the theory was supposed to show how vigilantes are on the edge and how close to snapping Batman could be, but it doesn't. Having them get it on just didn't seem to serve any purpose narratively. Also, come on, any cosplayer could tell you that body armor wouldn't be that light .

They outright said in Batman Beyond that she and Batman mixed business and pleasure in a way that I'm amazed Kids WB let get past the censors.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p-lwAdihZic

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l51dZBSs12w

Timm really really ships the two of them. That's why Dick is so estranged from Batman in Batman Beyond.

Since they added the Batgirl element, I'm kind of wishing they had found a way to incorporate Harley Quinn into the story as well. I think she may have added more than Batgirl. Of course then they would have had to pay Tara Strong for two voices, if that's the way voice acting works.

Who gives a crap? So he banged her. Big fucking deal.


In that Batman Beyond clip that han posted she banged dick grayson first then started fucking batman. Hey, she has needs.

Can you guys quit with the shaming?

Forget shaming her, how about shaming him? She's not only like a daughter to him, she's actually the (adopted?) daughter of arguably one of his best friends/coworkers. You want to drive Gordon mad, show him that clip.

Edited because I can never remember if she's actually Jims daughter or his niece that they adopted.

Good point. They wanted to fuck. Who cares?

Yeah, I didn't pick up on that as much as a kid, but Bruce and Barbara "activities" were clearly part of what drove a wedge between Bruce and Dick.

I kind of got the impression that what the did was a spontaneous hate-sex thing. Batman seemed to regret it, and she did too afterwards.

In the DCAU, she's his daughter. But yeah, that doesn't seem like a tremendously cool thing to do to a guy who's father has taken you into his confidence while you constantly put his daughter's life in danger.

In their line of work, I would guess that the constant brushes with death would want to make you do things to feel a little more alive, as it were.

Yeah, I didnt have a problem with them hooking up either. As Han mentioned its been eluded to in the animated universe for a while. My issue was for all the hype it got I thought this ended up being pretty meh.

Just finished this. I honestly don't understand the complaints people have with this. The Barbara/Batgirl stuff at the beginning isn't that bad at all. I pretty much took it as the writers giving her some set up before the main story kicks in and she gets shot. The sex scene isn't that bad either as its not seen and it happens out of passion from her. She's frustrated with Bruce/Batman but at the same time admires him and has an interest in him. I took it more as she was infatuated with him and gave into her desires. As far as getting to the main story I just read it last week in preparation and its almost literally recreating the comic panel for panel. I think it's one of the best adaptations ever done in this style.

I didn't have a problem with the Batgirl stuff, I just found the entire thing pretty boring.

I managed to get a steelbook but after seeing the reviews I thought I'd better burn off some Amazon Video credits and check it out first.

The Batgirl prologue didn't bother me per se, though I agree it has almost nothing to do with the story proper. I thought the animation as a whole was far better than most of the recent DCAU features. The score was excellent.

I do feel that the opening Batgirl story (told from her POV because of the narration) and the "Tag" at the end make the film essentially a "Batgirl" (empowerment) story rather than a "Batman" story. I imagine this choice was made to make the violation of Batgirl that's the attention-getting part of the story more palatable for the audience.

Overall, I thought it was stronger than their last couple of films, but the climax landed a little soft for me (it works better on paper).

Watched it last night. Enjoyed it for the most part. Having Conroy and Hamill back was pure gold. But mostly I was again underwhelmed by the story as a whole. Have no idea why the comic this is based on ranks so high compared to others. Didn't seem that special or different than other Joker story lines.

As for the Bat Girl prologue, it was OK as basically a short that plays before the primary story. But really, they should have found a way to have it tie to the story that followed.

This is a terrible answer, but , frankly, you just had to be there. I don't blame you for feeling the way you do, but you didn't read the product (I'm guessing you haven't read it at all) and not in the time it was created.

I almost kind of thought that the prologue with Batgirl seemed a bit like an episode of Batman: The Animated Series or something. Only with more violence and obviously the sex scene. It feels more like a film when the main story of The Killing Joke starts. Still though I didn't think the prologue is as horrible as most have made it out to be. Maybe it could have tied better to the overall story but I felt like it was better in ways than how the comic handles her with just having her show up briefly with Gordon before The Joker comes and shoots her. The comic is fine for people that have a lot of knowledge of the characters but I could see how some people who are just casual fans might find it a bit jarring that she's barely in the story and is shot out of the blue.

Wrong on both counts. And I'm sure many will say the same about my opinion , but despite the hype, I just don't think it's that special.

I think the comic holds up and I didn't read it when it first came out (first time was around 2008 I believe when it got re-released for its twentieth anniversary). I think it's a simple yet effective Batman/Joker story. It shows how fucked up The Joker is in a couple of ways with how far he's willing to take things to try and prove that anyone can slip because of one bad day and it also gives us the first bit of insight to the idea that he doesn't have a definitive origin and doesn't really know why he's the way he is. I also like that Batman feels like they're at the end and is trying to reconcile before one of them finally snaps and kills the other. It's also got nice artwork and in my opinion is a good length being a tad longer than a standard comic but yet not too long and drawn out.