I know that's what I liked about Kylo! that when he takes off the mask u see a whinny disturbed kid, just trying to fight his evil/good instincts. It added depth to the character, another badass Vader would have been disappointing

i know they didn't go into this, but I think there's an obvious reason: losing his son. Losing a child (in this case, a metaphorical death) often tears couples apart.

Kylo was Luke's apprentice right?

So not really pertaining to the film directly but I saw where the voice of Admiral Ackbar, Erik Bauersfeld passed away at 93. He was a fairly minor yet memorable character. Glad that he was able to do The Force Awakens before he passed.

Yes he's the one that made Luke go into hiding after turning to the dark-side and presumably killing Luke's other students.

Especially since that son turned around and killed a shit ton of other future jedi's. This often happens with the parents of those mass shooting kids. The parents don't know how to cope with it and, in this case, it's pretty clear which side of the family he gets those evil intentions from.

I thought of all the things that were sort of rushed to us in the catching up from the last few decades since Return, that was handled really well.

jfc, how many people have died just because the Skywalkers are incompetent assholes?

Not sure how it wasn't obvious that it was Kylo Ren's actions that broke Han and Leia apart.

That wasn't my point. My point was they had to contrive shit in order to reset him back to his pre-episode-IV state in order for them to manufacture another arc in order for him to die. It's just cheap, robotic screenwriting.

It did feel like watching a feature-length Star Wars fan film. Entertaining but nothing to take seriously.

I hope Kylo doesn't wear a mask anymore. I don't think he needs it anymore now that he killed daddy-o.

Watching it again, is Kylo Ren supposed to be a Jedi or Sith? Or is he still in training? What's his education (besides mastering a childlike temper)?

Unknown. I'm sure the next installments will reveal all of that, because for better or worse, we're stuck with him for a while.

I guess so. But based on that final fight, both were pretty ungangly and they were just swinging. Just didn't know if we'll see the evolution of their fighting or something. Once she "channeled" the force, she just swung a few times and he was out of commission. Just seemed odd, the entire thing.

Look at this unwashed mass J6P mouth breather. You still making fun of that lightsaber hilt like the h8er that you are, brah?

I was confused by it also. Were they making a concerted effort to move away from the over choreographed sword ballet routines from the prequels, to get back to what light saber duels were like in the originals? Or were they trying to show a duel between 2 relatively untrained opponents? Kylo with the force powers he has shown thus far should be much better with a light saber. But I guess you can explain away his lack of form as he was injured and overly emotional having just murdered his father.

I take Ren as a guy who knows the force, has minimal training in it and isn't quite a master of the force or lightsaber as he hasn't been properly trained by a Jedi or a Sith (I'm assuming Snoke is a dark side user, but not a proper Sith).

I think you guys are looking too much into the choreography of the fight. Look at the emotions in the fight.

Kylo Ren was already fucked up enough by Chewie too.

And he was just loosing it too. He was pissed about Finn, Rey, everything. The guy wasn't on the ball totally. He was getting his shit fucked up by those lesser than him and he was pissed as fuck.

It's not like it wasn't affecting him. But he sure as hell wasn't at top form either. Enough to get hit a bit by Finn. And by the time Rey comes in, he's overtaken by her how much stronger she is than him.

Add in.. he's playing w/ Finn for the most part. By the time Rey gets her moment... he's just going wild and reckless. Then Rey overtakes him. And it ends there. It's not by her skill so much. Though... the film was very simplified in feeding us so much when less would have been better but whatever..






And I hope we don't see so much of style used in the prequels. It just never worked well w/ the Jedi. It has be a hybrid of this and that. And work that to its fullest. Unlike Lucas' belief of just going to an extreme and thinking it's awesome.

The best lightsaber fights were never led by the choreography. It was the drama that intensified it all. Luke vs. Vader in ESB. And Luke vs. Vader in RoTJ, this one is my favorite one just by i's geography in the location, the music, the lighting, etc. It's just pure drama controlling that fight.

Well so was the final Luke Vader fight in Jedi, and that was way more choreographed than in this one. Luke had the rage and Vader knew he was trying to kill his son. They did it better there in conveying their emotions guiding the battle. Then again, they were both Jedi's. Still doesn't fully explain their fighting in this one. Just swinging with lightsabers.

Ha - that video clip looks like some weird snuff film.

If I'm to assume based on what I remember. Kylo Ren was only trained so well for however long he was w/ Luke. Never really appeared much on Snoke aside from influencing Ren a lot. And Rey wasn't all that great to begin with.

Rey and Finn are trying their best. There's no skill really w/ them. Again.. Ren toys w/ Finn and then finishes him. When Rey gets the saber Ren just goes wild cuz he's pissed. Not that hard to believe on that. People do stuff like that all the time when they lose it and just go wild.

Yeah, and that's why I was asking about the last fight in this one, where's Kylo's skillset at this point in the story. I would have thought they'd issue the black outfit once he figured out how to use a lightsaber with some skill. But since you say he trained for as long as Luke originally did, Luke was practicing with a lightsaber on the Falcon in Episode IV. I guess Jedi/Sith training schedules do vary.

You think Ren was an iconic villain or something?

I do wonder how skilled this Luke is now though.

He's not a Sith. He's a Knight of Ren, whatever that is.

He answers to this guy:

He lived up to expectations. Not like that worthless Maul who you probably still have a chub over.

I mean, Kylo is able to stop a blaster mid air, homie.