Trevor

I don't think Han being a good father was ever in the cards. If Han was a good father Ren wouldn't have gone dark; if Han was a good father he wouldn't have then abandoned his wife, son, and humanity to go have fun being a scoundrel again; if Han was a good father he wouldn't have waited until that stupidly improbable moment to think he could turn Ren back. I mean, seriously, Ren had just been instrumental in destroying multiple planets and was seconds away from knowingly killing his mother and more planets. He really thought there was hope of redemption? I'd much rather have seen a Han shot first moment there.

TGM

the more I think about it, the more I hope this theory is true

https://dorksideoftheforce.com/2015/...-fan-theories/

onebyone

We have no real idea if Han was a good father or not, and we have no idea why Kylo went dark. None of that has been shown to us. Certainly, people have gone bad before with very good and loving parents. Also, parents often think they can help their kids when others know better.

To each their own, but if they had Han shoot Ben after Leia asked him to try to save him, I think I would be this movie's number one hater. That's horrible.

That's an interesting theory to be sure, and fills in a lot of questions I had. I really do not know what they are going to do with Kylo after this, but I am damn interested to find out.

story

That isn't my theology. Oops, wrong forum.

kefrank

I've seen this complaint multiple times now and I disagree completely. He died courageously trying to bring his rebellious son back. He knew there was a great risk in it and he did it anyway, because he genuinely believed there was still good in his son. Many would argue that is one of the most heroic things one can attempt to do. I also think it brings Han's character full circle and is consistent with who he has been throughout the Star Wars films. Although Han came around to helping out the "greater cause" of the rebels/resistance, he has always been very much about taking care of his own business first. His death came at the ultimate intersection of those two - a personal family matter that also had significant implications for the greater cause. The more I've thought about it, the more I think it was just about the perfect way for Han Solo's journey through these movies to be completed.

dsa_shea

This! I heard that he hates the Han Solo character and was paid a nice sum of money up front along with the promise that the character would be put to bed.

dsa_shea

Snoke sucks and does every trilogy really need a twist? Just tell a good story in chapters and not worry about blowing us away with some reveal. That has already been done.

Trevor

That would wrap it up quite nicely, but I disagree. That'd be incredibly inconsistent with his character, and, well, what I just wrote a few posts ago. But I'll try to drink the kool aid and focus on the positive. The two new leads are fantastic and the set-up for what may come next has me excited about SW again.

kefrank

I'm not following. Regardless of whether he was a "good" father or not (we don't really know), you don't view an attempt to bring back his son back from rebellion as being courageous or heroic? And what is it that you think is inconsistent with his character?

This I agree with 100%...especially Daisy Ridley as Rey. This movie would have died on the vine if that character didn't work and she knocked it out of the park.

ntnon

I suppose, in retrospect, history hasn't really been noticeably kinder to the sidekicks and underlings - especially not the KNOWN names, like the Goebbels', Himmlers, etc. - who "just follow orders"... so you're probably right. I just imagine that a persons parents and teachers would be a primary avenue for information - and those being the children of the person in question might well be kinder and more end-of-life focused..

I supppse Snoke's appearance on the scene may be a key influence, yes.

ntnon

It took most of a week, but I read everything here.

I think I was categorically disagreeing with you - you suggested that the prequels were indescribable in the context of thematic resonance, so (having not seen two of them probably in nearly a decade and the other under inopportune conditions) I tried to fill in the gaps for you. 'Now think on't. Dot dot dot.'

That's why I used two recent and reasonably famous examples: Snape kills Dumbledore as part of an elaborate deception a d Jon Snow kills... Quorin Halfhand under similarish circumstances. Plus Kylo arguably seemed more conflicted over his action than either of those two let on.. anyway, just a thought for the melting pot.

ntnon

I was pretty underwhelmed by Kylo Solo, too - unlike most, it seems. Hux seems to be widely considered sub-par, and Snoke.... isn't really even in it. Isn't he/it in the film less than the underused Phasma..?!

ntnon

Huh. Someone finds it plausible..!

Ash Ketchum

Michael Hiltzik in the L.A. Times:

"Admit it: 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' stinks -- and here's why":

http://www.latimes.com/business/hilt...26-column.html

Spiderbite

That is a terrible non-review and a waste of time reading it. You will find better criticism of the movie here in this thread. He just seems to be bitching about how big and mass marketed Star Wars is. There is barely any "critical" talk about the actual film (and trust me, this film deserves to be criticized).

Mike86

Yeah. In all honesty I think that Han knew that there was a good chance something bad would happen to him by confronting Kylo and that he could possibly meet his demise. I think he did it out of his love for Leia for one thing because she wanted to believe that her son could be brought back and he may have had some of those feelings himself of wanting him to be brought back so they could be a family (or try to be) again. I don't think he went out bad at all.

ntnon

Mostly, but he does highlight the (obvious) point that even the glowing reviews tend to point out just how dirivitive it is.

Actually, in all the reviews I've read - even the extremely glowing ones - there are two lines that repeat: "better than the prequels" and an excuse for/enjoyment despite being patterned after the original. The bar is stated to be set very low, and then a big flaw is acknowledged and dismissed. It's curiously standardised..!

dvdjunkie32

The actual death had a hollow punch of it to me, but Chewy's reaction gave me that emotional release that I wanted. Perfectly done

BobO'Link

I just wish more "professional" reviewers would acknowledge the many plot holes and inconsistencies rather than just say, in a small print manner, that it's "derivitive" and continue to lavish praise on the work. It's not a "bad" movie and *is* a fun ride as long as you turn your brain off a while. It's not the "instant classic" people seemingly want it to be and not as good as it should have been considering Lucas was somewhat taken out of the process. With Abrams in charge, TFA is to the Star Wars universe as the new Star Trek movies are to the Star Trek universe: Pale imitations of the originals constucted from recycled plots with *just enough* new points and/or characters pasted on a rather generic action movie coupled with flashy effects to distract you from what's actually on the screen so you'll think it's better than it is. What you get is a watchable "popcorn" type flick with no lasting impact to the genre or franchise.

Chrisedge

I actually found this article a bit refreshing since everyone is saying it's Ep4 all over again.

http://mashable.com/2015/12/23/force...-is-no-remake/

Why So Blu?

Like when Ewan McGregor did when Liam Neeson got killed in Phantom Menace? That's what that was - rebooted.

HN

Luke reacting to Obi-Wan's height loss

Mike86

So what exactly was he supposed to do? Just stand there and not react at all as his friend is killed? I get some of the complaints about things being re-done but this just seems like its reaching if you're being serious.

Bandoman

Kylo Ren overreacts to everyday events.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/FuL4fKoQ0UE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Brack

Agreed Was Obi-Wan was supposed to yell "Noooo! Bastard!" like from Back to the Future or something?