They just didn't make the movie dark enough or the characters young enough.

I don't think marvel is really that interested in FF, but more of its big baddie, Galactus.

Why Galactus specifically for you?

I would think it's a combination of characters that fell w/ FF in the rights. Surfer would be great to have.

I know the deal isn't that. But why on Earth would a movie studio continue to lose millions upon millions of dollars on something that clearly isn't making them money? They let Daredevil go back. There is nothing that Fox can do to make FF marketable.

I'm sure Marvel/Disney isn't dumb enough to just do a 2 movie deal. They wouldn't waste the time on the series if it was just one stand alone movie. And there is zero chance that Civil War is going to be a bust. Sony will make a shit ton of money alone just from that movie.

Marvel is dying to get Dr. Doom back. Dr. Doom would be a huge factor in the Marvel/Disney movies if they had his rights.

Dead pool ... ?

Do you think he would have been the "big bad" instead of Thanos?

I didn't mean Civil War itself would bust, but rather I meant if this new reboot Spider-Man is a bust. It is possible that he may be poorly received. Maybe this interpretation will be crap or maybe Tom Holland won't be a good choice for playing him. Who knows. It's possible. The writers behind Horrible Bosses and the Vacation series reboot are writing the new Spider-Man, and that doesn't exactly feel me with a lot of confidence.

Yes, Marvel probably has a contract and hopes to use this Spider-Man in more than Civil War and the 2017 solo Spidey movie, but I still bet there is a clause somewhere in the contract for Sony to get out of it if they want. Most contracts do have a clause that allows at least one party to cancel it if they decide to do so. I doubt Sony would sign a contract if it didn't have such a clause because if this new Spidey is poorly received, they will probably end the deal and reboot again.


I doubt it. Doom is nowhere near being the same universal threat that Thanos is. Unless Doom steals the Power Cosmic from Silver Surfer again or something that's the only way he can be in the same league as Thanos.

So, without taking into account the feasibility of Marvel regaining the rights, or the desire for Fox to leverage said rights, I think the best approach to a new Fantastic Four film is the slow build-up. Wait until 2020, and have Marvel use it to either launch Phase 4 (get it!).

Captain America Civil War: Do quick reshoots to name drop Reed Richards. Tony has a phone call with him. We hear of the Baxter Building. Etc. Just one quick reference, and that's it.

Doctor Strange: Ben Grimm as a pilot?

Luke Cage: Ben Grimm as a friend of titular hero?

Guardians 2: Silver Surfer reference? Peter Quill jumps on the board and shouts "Cowabunga!" before being pulled off by Gamora.

Spider-Man: Reed Richard cameo. Scientist idolized by Peter.

Infinity War 1: Tomy calls upon Reed and Sue to help aid in the coming war. Tech advancements. Etc. Johnny is met.

Black Panther: Mention Latveria. Strike a contrast between how Doom rules and Black Panther's father rules.

Infinity War 2: Reed feels sidelined, as Avengers are battling. He is desperate to help, regardless of not having any powers. The four finally come together to go out, attempting to save people? Something goes amiss, and they're caught in some "crossfire," so to speak. Some sort of Cosmic discharge caused by the Gems? They fall, seemingly dead. The post-credits scene is an Avenger visiting Reed in the hospital, thanking him, and telling him it's been a few months since the battle. He tells Reed that there's a growing unrest, and that they'll need his help. He sputters "I don't... Wha...?" at which point the Thing comes stumbling in, says "Hey Stretch... It's clobbering time!" (Alternatively, you could also just have the movie end with the Avenger saying they need help, and then some tiny shot of fire coming from Johnny, or stretching from Reed, if the Thing reveal wants to be saved for the film itself.)

And then The Fantastic Four opens in either 2020 or 2021.

You're trying too hard.

A sickness of the thread.

Well put.

This is just a whole lot of speculation based on nothing. You haven't the first clue as to what's in Sony and Marvel's contract. None of us do.

Of course it is my speculation. I never said it wasn't.

I do have a small basis for it however. Edward Norton. He and Marvel didn't get along, so his Hulk contract was canceled.

Most contracts do have a way to get out of them in the fine print. I really doubt Sony and/or Marvel want to be tied together for a six or nine movie deal if the first one bombs horribly. Other movies probably work similarly. I doubt we would have gotten a Captain America or Thor trilogy if the first ones weren't successful. I also believe a Hulk sequel was planned because they set up the Leader for the sequel, but the Hulk movie didn't do so well so apparently it was canned. They may have "loose plans" for a Spider-Man trilogy, but nothing is set in stone. If the first movie doesn't do too well, then those plans can be canned too. There are probably "loose plans" for trilogies for Ant-Man, Doctor Strange, and Black Panther too contingent on each of their first movies being successful.

I think he would have already been the featured villain in one of the Avengers' movies if Marvel still had Doom's rights. He's a great villain because you can use him as an antagonist in a variety of ways. Thanos is a cosmic villain that really wouldn't make sense in a Captain America or Spider-Man solo movie.

He would be the "big bad" instead of Loki.

Spider-Man is beloved, though. There is no way Marvel will mess up their star. Though, I do admit, while I liked the first Horrible Bosses, I didn't watch Part 2 and Vacation was kind of eh. Not sure what else those guys have done, but here's hoping we don't get a lot of slap stick jokes.

The solution is simple: Disney/Marvel cuts a check for US$300 million to buy back the rights for the Fantastic Four characters from 21st Century Fox. Disney has the money, and 21st Century Fox rids itself of a financial nightmare.

Then I'm glad Marvel doesn't have Doom because Loki is one of their strongest and most popular characters... certainly the strongest villain.

Pretty much. I could see Loki being the big guy, who wasn't really that big, in Avengers 1. But Doom is much more diverse of a character than Loki. Granted... MCU Loki is kind of weak in variation beyond being an awesome mustache twirler type. Doom. You never really know where he's going to go. Yeah. He's a bad guy... but he's got motivation. Gears going at all times. He'll join the heroes to get something that the Heroes can't see.

Fuck. Doom. He's so fucking cool.

Considering that Marvel sold those rights for about $1 Million or so (if memory serves) that would be WAY overpriced. Marvel would have to release about 5 significantly profitable FF movies to make that up.

Marvel should offer Fox $10 Million and a 5% piece of the pie for the next two FF movies. Fox makes money for doing nothing.

For that money they should buy the rights for Star Wars from fox with FF in that deal.

Where are you getting that $1 million figure from? I find it hard to believe. Disney paid $4 billion each for Marvel and Star Wars. Not that FF is worth anywhere close to $4 billion, but it's surely worth way more than $1 million even after Fox has trainwrecked it.

Disney didn't own Marvel when they sold all the movie rights. They were broke & needed the quick cash. Disney wouldn't sell movie rights to characters. They'd like to have all the rights back on the characters they now own.

The rights were sold in the early 90's. When Marvel was bankrupt. No Marvel property had ever really made money as a live action movie or TV show outside of The Incredible Hulk. I read at that time it was a figure around $1 Million.

Fox has gotten their money's worth. And the FF cinematic rights aren't worth anywhere near $300 Million. That's more than the gross for this movie worldwide. Profits for the first two FF movies combined were probably around $50 Million. No way would anyone spend more than $10 or $15 Million plus small points (around 5%) for the rights.

Fox is going to lose a lot of money on this movie. They aren't exactly in a position to play hardball. Right now it's a money LOSING venture thanks to Fox's mishandling of the franchise.