RocShemp

Horror movies have the "heroes" lose all the time. Although these movies are thrillers at heart, they should be treated no different than a horror franchise. Just mix it up as to who wins in each installment and whether or not it's an outright win, loss, or even a draw (I'm picturing both the Yautja and human potentially mortally wounded with the final victor unclear).

brayzie

I don't find the Predator mythology nearly as interesting as Aliens'. First Predator was awesome. The mystery of what was picking everyone off, and who exactly skinned the bodies of the first team was what really made that film. Seeing the actual Predator go head up with Arnold was just the icing on the cake. That's why the second one wasn't as good. There was no real mystery or suspense. We already know what's killing everyone, we know it before the protagonists do.

Solid Snake

Yeah. The Predator in that one wasn't a surprise or a mystery. We knew wtf it was. We knew what it did.

Still.... Bill Fucking' Paxton. A goddamn American Treasure.

hanshotfirst1138

There really wasn't much "mythology" to the Alien franchise, and the more they've added, the less interesting it has become. It was basically "It was a bio-weapon that gestated in a living host and had apparently destroyed the civilization where the Nostoromo landed." That was basically it. Now it's been the offspring of a human and a god, the prey for aliens who taught ancient civilizations, genetically engineered by humans, all kinds of things. Less is more.

RocShemp

Apparently the theory that Ridley Scot subscribes to is that the ship the Nostromo found was a bomber ship. Basically, they use Xenomorph eggs as bio-weapons to wipe out entire races so the Engineers can then colonize the planet. So the quasi-xenomorph we see at the end of Prometheus was not the first ever xenomorph but rather some other being that resulted from the black ooze that is used in the creation of xenomorphs. I guess the ooze was an even more advanced version of the bioweapon program.

And if you're wondering at the logic of letting xenomorphs run amuck in an entire planet you intend to colonize, it's because xenomorphs have a very short life span. That's why the xenomorph in Alien seemed so dull and slow when Ripley discovered it had stowed away on her escape craft. It was already dying of old age. Had she left it alone, it would have died on its own.

brayzie

He's a good actor but I wouldn't consider him a favorite. But I was really impressed with his turn as a director for Frailty.

There was no civilization on Acheron/LV-whatever. The pilot's ship crash landed.

We get enough from the first 3 films to get a mythology going for that universe that's compelling. Aliens by itself added to the series and still made it interesting. We saw how they xenomorphs subvert their surroundings to reflect themselves (or their home world). We saw the addition of an Alien Queen. Even the Darkhorse comics stuff made the Aliens interesting, like how they used Giger concept art to show that the xenomorphs build hive/pyramids, and implied that the queen communicates with warriors via telepathy. The stuff we saw in AvP and Prometheus I don't count because after all these years, those explanations just aren't satisfying.

Predator was a great movie, and the 2nd, while enjoyable, wasn't anywhere near as good as the first and I feel like it was because the mystery was more important than the reveal.

Why So Blu?

That was also implied in Aliens when Ripley was about to toast the eggs. The Queen looks over to the drones flanking her and basically tells them to back off. It's right before th egg opens up in front of Ripley and she gives that "seriously?" look before frying the eggs anyway.

Solid Snake

I don't think it was telepathy in Aliens. I just accepted it as an animal type of communication we see all the time. A look is enough to get something done.

Maybe in the comics it was but I just saw it as that animalistic type of body language that communicates all too well at times.

Why So Blu?

Well, they don't have eyes, so it would have to be telepathy of some sort.

Solid Snake

Right. I forgot. Been seeing too much production art.

I accepted the body language WE see as the visual but we've seen them not react to visual cues or whatever. I dunno... I always just accepted it was just more like animalistic senses that communicate. But I guess telepathy or whatever works going w/ a more "insect" type of acceptance to their structure.

brayzie

I was going to mention that too but wasn't sure if she also hissed at them. Just checked, no hissing.

I was reading an Aliens wikia right now and it was further describing the telepathy of the xenomorphs and how either they, or the queen, influences other species' dreams as well, which results in worship of them. Dark Horse did this in their Aliens Vol II series. From the wikia:

communicates telepathically with its potential hosts, through terrifying dreams and religious visions, leading to the formation of cults with the Xenomorph as a god-like figure. This is similar to the Cthulhu cult in H. P. Lovecraft's The Call of Cthulhu. This can be seen in Alien 3, when Golic is induced by supposed "telepathic" messages from a captured Xenomorph. This ultimately leads him to release it and let it kill him. He called it "The Dragon", and viewed it as a god.

I don't remember that from Alien 3, but if so I would've chalked it up to him simply being crazy. But it actually makes that movie more interesting if a single xenomorph were able to influence him because of his weak mind.
Also, I like the similarities to HP Lovecraft's stories, especially since Giger himself was influenced by Lovecraft going as far as putting out a couple art books entitled "Necronomicon."

Solid Snake

I also accepted it as Golic being crazy as fuck. I'm watching the AC right now though. I'll see what's there though.

I also thought she hissed in that scene in Aliens. Apparently not.

hanshotfirst1138

I think that's residual from the Vince Ward script where the characters are all monks, I assumed that that character worshipped the Alien and thought it was send as some kind of divine punishment or retribution. It's actually kind of fucked up, there's this weird Lovecraftian thing running through the whole series about these sort of messed up phallic monsters being the subject of religion. It's most prominent (and clunky) in Prometheus, where the central character is a Christian who sets out find God and only finds monsters that rape, torture, and kill in an empty universe. It's really fucked up. It's basically the whole premise of AVP as well. Apparently the comics dappled in the same storyline quite a bit.

Abob Teff

RocShemp

Apparently there are rumblings of an AvP3. How about a more intellectual Alien versus Predator movie?

UAIOE

The strength of "Predator 2" (for me) was expanding the mythology of the Predators some. We find out they have multiple vision modes, we see their ship, we find out they've been here a long time, don't kill females, etc. Some of this is minor stuff, but I thought these were interesting additions to what I saw in the 1st movie.

I also think the Predator in the 2nd movie wasn't as good of a hunter as the one in the first movie, which is why he was easier to kill. Interesting as it showed that there was more to them then just "alien hunters". I realize this is old shit by now, but it was interesting when the movie first came out.

RocShemp

That makes sense because the idea during production was that the Predator in the 2nd movie was younger and out to prove itself. That's why they slightly tweaked it's design to make it look sleeker and more modern.

However, the rule established in the second movie was not that they don't hunt females. It's that they don't hunt pregnant females. And I liked when it analyzed the toy gun in the cemetery since it was a callback to the fact that they usually don't bother with prey that is unarmed.

UAIOE

Unless the ones in the newer films actually kill women, there is nothing to suggest in the first two movies that they *ONLY* spare pregnant females. The Predator in the first movie never really went after the lone female with the group. And I always took the scene in Predator 2 as that he was going to kill the human shooting at him, until he saw that it was pregnant (female), and spared her.

Solid Snake

He never went after Anna cuz she was unarmed. Dutch stopped her from using that gun too. In Predator 2, he stops from killing that woman cuz she's pregnant.

In Predators, we had Isabelle from the IDF. She was used as game.

The Predators aren't only focused on men to kill. They want armed prey. Gender doesn't matter.

It was a quasi remake of Predators but if given a bigger budget and a even better script? It could have been awesome.

brayzie

In the first Predator Arnold seems pretty concerned that Anna will be targeted and killed by the Predator once she picks up the gun which is why he kicks it out of her hands.

Solid Snake

I wish we could a properly remastered BD of Predator. I still have the old BD of it. It's not bad but it needs to be cleaned up a bit. I ALMOST want to see wtf that waxy looking BD that Fox released looks like in motion. I ain't paying for it though. lol.

hanshotfirst1138

I kept the first BD and my old SE DVD for the extras. Until the 12th of never when Fox decides to fix their DNR mess, I'll just make do with that.

UAIOE

I took that as he didn't want her to use the gun on any of them, not to avoid being a target for the Predator.

brayzie

Dutch: "Leave it. He didn't kill you because you weren't armed - No sport."

Later in the film Anna grabs the gun to join in the fight against the Predator and Dutch yells "Nooo!" and kicks it out of her hand.

islandclaws

When an alien hunter is turning the mountains of muscle on all sides of you into sausage, chances are the first thing you do once a gun is in your possession wouldn't be killing them. You have bigger problems.