Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (D: Snyder; S: Gadot)
12-10-14, 10:21 AM
#4751
DVD Talk Special Edition
Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (D: Snyder; S: Gadot)
Moore never intended The Killing Joke to be in-continuity, and the permanent crippling of Barbara was set up by editorial and other writers.
12-10-14, 10:29 AM
#4752
Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (D: Snyder; S: Gadot)
I heard Cassandra was a cool Batgirl but visually, I thought she had a poor design.
Stephanie was Robin during the War Games/War Crimes storyarc. I don't recall who the writer was then, but it was in the early 2000s. It was after Hush, but before Morrison came on board and introduced Damian. That whole period really wasn't a good time for Batman comics.
Off topic but I also really disliked those Chip Kidd Batman title treatments. He does great work but that particular effort made the whole Bat-line look really boring.
12-10-14, 10:57 AM
#4753
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (D: Snyder; S: Gadot)
Probably that the comics didn't sell well, but the small amount of people who did buy the comics were very vocal.
I heard Cassandra was a cool Batgirl but visually, I thought she had a poor design.
It was a bunch of people but among them was Devin Grayson and Greg Rucka.
Off topic but I also really disliked those Chip Kidd Batman title treatments. He does great work but that particular effort made the whole Bat-line look really boring.
I heard Cassandra was a cool Batgirl but visually, I thought she had a poor design.
It was a bunch of people but among them was Devin Grayson and Greg Rucka.
Off topic but I also really disliked those Chip Kidd Batman title treatments. He does great work but that particular effort made the whole Bat-line look really boring.
12-10-14, 03:10 PM
#4754
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Spoiler:
. Both Stephanie and Cassandra were fan-favorites as Batgirl. Some people say they didn't sell well, but I'm not really sure how true that really is. How could they be fan-favorites and not sell well? That seems contradictory. Stephanie was Robin during the War Games/War Crimes storyarc. I don't recall who the writer was then, but it was in the early 2000s. It was after Hush, but before Morrison came on board and introduced Damian. That whole period really wasn't a good time for Batman comics.
12-10-14, 03:31 PM
#4755
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (D: Snyder; S: Gadot)
Katherine Kane... Batwoman. She and Montoya had a thing.
I fucking loved Montoya. Especially as a kid. Hispanic character, female, strong, and pretty damn cool.
I fucking loved Montoya. Especially as a kid. Hispanic character, female, strong, and pretty damn cool.
12-10-14, 03:58 PM
#4756
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (D: Snyder; S: Gadot)
Yep. It was fucked up to say the least. Here's a scan of it if you dare to look. (There's nothing too graphic.) It is from Nightwing #93. Nightwing is injured and barely conscious and the chick just starts riding him. The author defended it, saying it wasn't rape because men cannot be raped.
That is Batwoman, not Batgirl. Katerine Kane is Batwoman. She was actually introduced in the 50s. Then she disappeared for decades, only to reappear randomly in 2006 following Infinite Crisis.
Spoiler:
Which Batgirl was the lesbian introduced in 52? I remember that maintain waves in the media.
12-10-14, 04:04 PM
#4757
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (D: Snyder; S: Gadot)
No, they also did it because Cassandra Batgirl and Spoiler Batgirl weren't catching on and weren't selling. They didn't want to let the Batgirl name go out of use and copyright so they finally resorted to bringing back Barbara for a few reasons, partly because of the iconic status you mentioned, partly because they needed a sales boost, and partly because they tried other Batgirls and they weren't successful.
They didn't de-age Dick Grayson because even hardcore comic fans weren't clamoring for him to become Robin again. Most were perfectly fine with Tim Drake, and Damien became pretty popular as Robin IV.
Were they really going to lose the rights to Batgirl if they didn't publish a comic with her name on it? To my knowledge, it wasn't a Wonder Woman situation, and even if the character wasn't popular enough to have her own book, as long as she was used every once in a while isn't that enough to keep copyright? It's not like Barbara was starring in her own best selling book for years and years before Killing Joke.
And the current, post Gail Simone Batgirl might as well be an Elseworlds itself.
12-10-14, 04:56 PM
#4758
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (D: Snyder; S: Gadot)
I believe (and I may be wrong here), that they have to publish a Batgirl comic every so often to keep the Trademark on the name, but the copyright should be good as long as a character with that name is being used on a somewhat regular basis in any book.
Or maybe it's the other way around.
Or maybe it's the other way around.
12-10-14, 06:00 PM
#4759
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (D: Snyder; S: Gadot)
I believe (and I may be wrong here), that they have to publish a Batgirl comic every so often to keep the Trademark on the name, but the copyright should be good as long as a character with that name is being used on a somewhat regular basis in any book.
Or maybe it's the other way around.
Or maybe it's the other way around.
12-10-14, 06:35 PM
#4760
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (D: Snyder; S: Gadot)
Generally, DC and Marvel will release a one-shot or a mini to keep their Trademarks active. Once in awhlie, we'll get a short-lived ongoing series. I think the whole Trademark thing was kind of squishy during the early years. When DC released Shazam! in the early 70s, they boldly proclaimed "The Original Captain Marvel" on the cover. Something Marvel wouldn't stand for at all now.
As long as Batgirl popped up on a cover once in awhile, she was fine. She had regular (cover) appearances in the Batman Family title from the 70s and again when it moved over to Detective Comics. The character was going to "retire" after Crisis on Infinite Earths and DC released the Batgirl Special a month or so before Killing Joke hit. In the Special, she gave up the cowl.
She had plenty of marketing back then too on stickers and Mego figures.
As long as Batgirl popped up on a cover once in awhile, she was fine. She had regular (cover) appearances in the Batman Family title from the 70s and again when it moved over to Detective Comics. The character was going to "retire" after Crisis on Infinite Earths and DC released the Batgirl Special a month or so before Killing Joke hit. In the Special, she gave up the cowl.
She had plenty of marketing back then too on stickers and Mego figures.
12-10-14, 07:06 PM
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (D: Snyder; S: Gadot)
Yeah, I remember there was a Batgirl Special one-shot issue in 1988. Then Batgirl was never used again until Cassandra Cain was introduced and became Batgirl in 2000. So that's 12 years with no Batgirl. If the thing about losing the trademark/copyright is true, then it seems like DC would have lost it in those 12 years. That's a pretty long time to let it go.
12-10-14, 07:13 PM
#4762
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (D: Snyder; S: Gadot)
Plus, after killing joke, there was a long time when there was no Batgirl, right? Or did BTAS cover that or something?
Now Wonder Woman, they had to keep publishing in a lead feature at least four times a year or lose the rights to the Marston family. Busiek explained that that's why he had to write a Wonder Woman standalone mini after Crisis, since George Perez's revamp wasn't out yet. They've since bought the rights completely, but it's also why they kept publishing WW comics even when sales were terrible, because the rights to the character trumped whatever losses they would have.
edited to add: Taffer beat me to it about the Batgirl hiatus. Also Supergirl was gone for a while after Crisis too.
Now Wonder Woman, they had to keep publishing in a lead feature at least four times a year or lose the rights to the Marston family. Busiek explained that that's why he had to write a Wonder Woman standalone mini after Crisis, since George Perez's revamp wasn't out yet. They've since bought the rights completely, but it's also why they kept publishing WW comics even when sales were terrible, because the rights to the character trumped whatever losses they would have.
edited to add: Taffer beat me to it about the Batgirl hiatus. Also Supergirl was gone for a while after Crisis too.
12-10-14, 07:19 PM
#4763
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (D: Snyder; S: Gadot)
Supergirl was actually only gone for a year or two. Remember John Byrne created the Matrix Supergirl early on in his run.
12-10-14, 07:28 PM
#4764
DVD Talk Legend & 2021 TOTY Winner
Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (D: Snyder; S: Gadot)
I don't think they can lose the trademark to the character by not publishing a comic with her name on it, but they can loose the right to publish a comic with her name on the cover. If they let it slip, another publisher could technically publish a comic called "Batgirl" with a completely different character in the lead. This is how Marvel got the "Captain Marvel" comic and DC can't print comics titled "Captain Marvel" even though they still own the original character.
12-10-14, 07:39 PM
#4765
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (D: Snyder; S: Gadot)
I don't think they can lose the trademark to the character by not publishing a comic with her name on it, but they can loose the right to publish a comic with her name on the cover. If they let it slip, another publisher could technically publish a comic called "Batgirl" with a completely different character in the lead. This is how Marvel got the "Captain Marvel" comic and DC can't print comics titled "Captain Marvel" even though they still own the original character.
12-10-14, 07:51 PM
#4766
DVD Talk Legend & 2021 TOTY Winner
Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (D: Snyder; S: Gadot)
I know that's how the Captain Marvel thing happened, I don't know if things have changed since then. But even if it is still the case, they would have to have not published anything with his name in the title for a certain period of time, and your character would have to be different enough to not be deemed a knock off of DC's character.
12-10-14, 08:37 PM
#4767
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (D: Snyder; S: Gadot)
I don't think they can lose the trademark to the character by not publishing a comic with her name on it, but they can loose the right to publish a comic with her name on the cover. If they let it slip, another publisher could technically publish a comic called "Batgirl" with a completely different character in the lead. This is how Marvel got the "Captain Marvel" comic and DC can't print comics titled "Captain Marvel" even though they still own the original character.
If DC doesn't publish a Character X comic for a number of years (I don't know the specific term but it's not as long as you imagine), someone else could publish a comic calling itself Batgirl and steal the cover trademark away from DC. That imposter Batgirl couldn't infringe on Barbara Gordon or anything associated with the DC version, but if they published a female version of Man-Bat and titled it Batgirl, they would now have the trademark for comic book covers. It would have nothing to do with our Batgirl, but DC would not be able to call Barbara's comic Batgirl any longer. Most of this can be seen with the Captain Marvel/Shazam situation.
12-11-14, 02:23 PM
#4772
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (D: Snyder; S: Gadot)
12-11-14, 05:57 PM
#4774
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12-15-14, 01:41 PM
#4775
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (D: Snyder; S: Gadot)
A few possible plot points, and fallout from MOS
Spoiler: