Go Back  DVD Talk Forum > Entertainment Discussions > Movie Talk
Reload this Page >

Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Movie Talk A Discussion area for everything movie related including films In The Theaters

Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Old 05-05-16, 11:48 AM
  #9951  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Josh-da-man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Bible Belt
Posts: 30,847
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Lucas always had the Star Wars saga in a state of flux. Wouldn't surprise me at all if, at one point, Boba Fett was going to play a larger role.
Josh-da-man is offline  
Old 05-06-16, 03:07 AM
  #9952  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
joe_b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,133
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Originally Posted by joe_b
This appears to be one of the topics covered in a new novel called "Bloodline". Pity, I would have loved to see the fallout from this play out on screen.
A lot of new info has come out about the "Bloodline" novel. Rian Johnson apparently had some input on story elements, so it might foreshadow the events of Episode VIII. The book reveals that Leia is
Spoiler:
exposed as Vader's daughter in the Senate about six years before the events of The Force Awakens. Maybe that's why she went off and formed the Resistance? At this point, Kylo is still training with Luke and hasn't gone off with Snoke yet... so the theory that Rey had been a student at the academy who was hidden from the Knights of Ren before the attack doesn't hold water. She'd been on Jakku at least 8 years before Luke went into exile.
joe_b is offline  
Old 05-06-16, 09:35 AM
  #9953  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Conducting miss-aisle drills and listening to their rock n roll
Posts: 17,378
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man View Post
Lucas always had the Star Wars saga in a state of flux. Wouldn't surprise me at all if, at one point, Boba Fett was going to play a larger role.
ROTJ's development has been exhaustively documented. I've read two books on the subject. At no time was Bobba Fett expanded into that large a roll.
Mabuse is offline  
Old 05-06-16, 09:41 AM
  #9954  
Moderator
 
dex14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 27,536
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Originally Posted by joe_b View Post
A lot of new info has come out about the "Bloodline" novel. Rian Johnson apparently had some input on story elements, so it might foreshadow the events of Episode VIII. The book reveals that Leia is
Spoiler:
exposed as Vader's daughter in the Senate about six years before the events of The Force Awakens. Maybe that's why she went off and formed the Resistance? At this point, Kylo is still training with Luke and hasn't gone off with Snoke yet... so the theory that Rey had been a student at the academy who was hidden from the Knights of Ren before the attack doesn't hold water. She'd been on Jakku at least 8 years before Luke went into exile.
Here is a detailed article on some of the major parts: http://io9.gizmodo.com/all-the-major...nov-1774819531
dex14 is offline  
Old 05-06-16, 11:58 AM
  #9955  
DVD Talk Legend
 
islandclaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Behind the Orange Curtain
Posts: 20,054
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
ROTJ's development has been exhaustively documented. I've read two books on the subject. At no time was Bobba Fett expanded into that large a roll.
So that's why the Sarlaac found him to be so delicious.
islandclaws is offline  
Old 05-06-16, 12:03 PM
  #9956  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
Michael Corvin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 57,385
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Michael Corvin is offline  
Old 05-06-16, 12:19 PM
  #9957  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Conducting miss-aisle drills and listening to their rock n roll
Posts: 17,378
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Damn it.
Mabuse is offline  
Old 05-06-16, 12:19 PM
  #9958  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Rob V's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: On the lake
Posts: 10,400
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Originally Posted by Sonny Corinthos View Post
Miller added that Lucas had planned to make 12 movies but decided he'd only make one more (Return of the Jedi) after he felt fatigue from the series' popularity.
What an asshole. Hey George, don't consider that you might get over that fatigue, just rush a product and throw an entire plot into the toilet.
Rob V is offline  
Old 05-06-16, 09:12 PM
  #9959  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
hanshotfirst1138's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Livonia MI
Posts: 9,678
Yeah, the thing was, ESB set up so many interesting ideas, and ROTJ does pretty much nothing with any of them.
hanshotfirst1138 is offline  
Old 05-06-16, 11:18 PM
  #9960  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,550
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Originally Posted by Rob V View Post
What an asshole. Hey George, don't consider that you might get over that fatigue, just rush a product and throw an entire plot into the toilet.
Wasn't he going through a divorce at the time, which affected his output, or was that Spielberg? I can imagine why after 7 or 8 years he might just want to be done with it. I heard that the first two films were pretty stressful to make, and he was juggling so much at the time, Lucas probably felt that his homage to Flash Gordon was no longer a top priority. But I agree, it's too bad that he didn't have more foresight.

Originally Posted by hanshotfirst1138 View Post
Yeah, the thing was, ESB set up so many interesting ideas, and ROTJ does pretty much nothing with any of them.
Yup. Leia and Luke being brother and sister is a painfully obvious rush job to wrap up loose ends like Yoda's line of "No, there is another." It was a nice twist, where this time, the hero doesn't get the girl.

It would have been great to have the original ending of ROTJ play out. The celebration on Endor was a little anti-climactic.
brayzie is offline  
Old 05-07-16, 07:42 PM
  #9961  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 6,781
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Originally Posted by hanshotfirst1138 View Post
Yeah, the thing was, ESB set up so many interesting ideas, and ROTJ does pretty much nothing with any of them.
What could have been interesting is if they never revealed 'the other' in ROTJ, and the ST could have revealed that and made for an interesting new character.
mcnabb is offline  
Old 05-07-16, 08:50 PM
  #9962  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Josh-da-man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Bible Belt
Posts: 30,847
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Originally Posted by mcnabb View Post
What could have been interesting is if they never revealed 'the other' in ROTJ, and the ST could have revealed that and made for an interesting new character.
That was the original plan circa 1980.
Josh-da-man is offline  
Old 05-12-16, 01:32 PM
  #9963  
DVD Talk Legend
 
E Unit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Behind Wolf in the Situation Room
Posts: 13,137
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

E Unit is offline  
Old 05-12-16, 01:34 PM
  #9964  
HN
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,359
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Originally Posted by trespoochies View Post
what is this, a poster for ants?
HN is offline  
Old 05-28-16, 06:18 PM
  #9965  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Conducting miss-aisle drills and listening to their rock n roll
Posts: 17,378
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

I just listened to a podcast that contained a tremendous amount of relevance to The Force Awakens, especially some of the things the film gets criticized for.

Some have been critical about the idea that Han, Luke, The Force, etc seem to have been forgotten, slipping into the realm of myth in a single generation.

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radi...are?act=2#play

This episode of This American Life (it's part 2 "Who Wants to Know") is about two kids, brother and sister, whose father played a role in a rebellion against a superpower. The brother has no memory of his father who died before he was born, the sister has only the faintest of adolescent memories.

A key moment comes when the sister refers to her father's actions as now being a myth. This is a guy who died only 26 years ago and his own daughter regards his leadership and battles and the war he fought as now being a myth residing in a file cabinet that even she doesn't fully know anything about. Does that sound familiar?

Another criticism of The Force Awakens revolves around The First Order and how, after the Empire was soundly defeated, something so similarly oppressive and similar looking could come along and carry on. The podcast recounts the last 30 years of Iranian political history. It tells how after deposing of one evil, undemocratic "Emperor"-like dictator, the rebels cheered that peace and secular democracy would finally arrive only to find that in just a short matter of time an equally repressive group, with an even creepier more evil looking figure head (the Ayatollah Khomeini), would come to power and terrorize the rebels yet again.

Not only is the story of the two siblings very good, but I think it really lends credence to the screenwriters and proves that what we're shown in The Force Awakens is very much aligned with things that can genuinely occur in history.

Last edited by Mabuse; 05-28-16 at 11:02 PM.
Mabuse is offline  
Old 05-28-16, 06:40 PM
  #9966  
TGM
DVD Talk Legend
 
TGM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 15,653
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

interesting post, thanks!

It reminds me of all the talk back in the day as to how the ships in the PT looked "more advanced" than the OT, when in reality there were similar trends IRL.
TGM is offline  
Old 05-28-16, 09:43 PM
  #9967  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
Michael Corvin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 57,385
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post

Not only is the story of the two siblings very good, but I think it really lends credence to the screenwriters and proves that what we're shown in The Force Awakens is very much aligned with things that can genuinely occur in history.
Sort of.

I've always had a similar problem with Han's "hokey religions" line, more so after the PT. The Jedi were a force to be reckoned with a mere 20 or so years prior, while Han would have been a kid. There would have been stories or people would have seen something. It would be different if we are talking a couple generations.

To put that in perspective, that'd be like saying Desert Storm never happened. We're talking about a galactic war with the galaxy's greatest warriors. There isn't a single news clip from 20 years prior? Nothing taught in schools? Parent's didn't bring it up with their kids? Actually, if we're tighter on the timeline, Luke was 18 and Jedi were prevalent almost right up to his birth. We're only a few years from the 18 year anniversary of 9/11. Do we not celebrate the lives lost that day? Tell of the firefighters and police officers that sacrificed their lives?
Michael Corvin is offline  
Old 05-28-16, 11:00 PM
  #9968  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Conducting miss-aisle drills and listening to their rock n roll
Posts: 17,378
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

They don't live in your neighborhood. It's a Galaxy Long Long Ago, or to be more specific it's a galaxy much like 1880-1945 on Earth. We are never shown a school or a history book, they've never shown "news", nor is there ever a suggestion that they have institutions similar to that which we have on Earth. The people we see in the OT are living primitive rural lives. You are applying modern standards.

Here's me imitating you watching John Ford's The Searchers: "This isn't realistic because Ethan should just watch CNN to find out where his niece was taken, and how come he doesn't just Google 'Cicatrice'? That would sure speed this movie up."
Parent's didn't bring it up with their kids?
Did you listen to the podcast? It's about kids who can't reconcile with their parent's rebellious sacrifice. The kid turned off his brain when it came to having an opportunity to understand what his father did.

Last edited by Mabuse; 05-28-16 at 11:08 PM.
Mabuse is offline  
Old 05-29-16, 08:46 AM
  #9969  
DVD Talk Legend
 
bluetoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,486
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Primitive, rural lives? Sure, maybe the people on Tatooine (for the standards of SW Galaxy, because being able to buy advanced robots at a junk sale is pretty far ahead of us). But even then, pretty sure Cloud City is far from primitive. They might not have "news" that we see, but they have ways of instantly communicating with each other.
bluetoast is offline  
Old 05-29-16, 08:57 AM
  #9970  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
Michael Corvin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 57,385
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
They don't live in your neighborhood. It's a Galaxy Long Long Ago, or to be more specific it's a galaxy much like 1880-1945 on Earth. We are never shown a school or a history book, they've never shown "news", nor is there ever a suggestion that they have institutions similar to that which we have on Earth. The people we see in the OT are living primitive rural lives. You are applying modern standards.
So because two thirds of the civilizations we're shown in the OT are Tattooine, Endor and Cloud City, we're to believe the entire galaxy is populated with primitive cultures? How did anyone ever leave the surface of their planets if they're too primitive for space travel?

We are shown in the PT that the universe has many advanced societies, do those just disappear after the Episode III credits roll? Back to farm life? Of course not, it's a living, breathing universe populated by all kinds of societies and ways of life. You can't infer that these advanced civilizations have "news" reports of some fashion? We need to be shown a news feed outlining the exploits of Han and Luke, complete with an on site Rodian reporter getting the latest soundbite?

At any rate, despite the planet not being shown, Corellia, thus far is one of those advanced societies. I'd hate to place our modern standards, but I'm going to infer that there are schools in the SW universe. People aren't born knowing multiple languages and how to fly space ships. Hell in the first half hour of SW, Luke mentions wanting to go the Imperial Academy.

Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
Did you listen to the podcast? It's about kids who can't reconcile with their parent's rebellious sacrifice. The kid turned off his brain when it came to having an opportunity to understand what his father did.
No I haven't listened, but it sounds like apples and oranges. You have a close personal connection between two people in your analogy. Han had no personal connection to the Jedi to rectify. They're just out in the world doing Jedi things. I have no connection to the Taliban or Isis, but I'm aware they are out there doing terrible things. I don't need to go to Egypt to see a pyramid to know it exists. I don't need charter a flight to the north pole to know polar bears exist. We have books(we're shown a library in the PT) and news, and with cultures that have mastered space travel, I don't think it's a stretch to assume the SW universe does as well.

Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
Here's me imitating you watching John Ford's The Searchers: "This isn't realistic because Ethan should just watch CNN to find out where his niece was taken, and how come he doesn't just Google 'Cicatrice'? That would sure speed this movie up."
Classy.
Michael Corvin is offline  
Old 05-29-16, 10:36 AM
  #9971  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Sonny Corinthos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Port Charles, NY.
Posts: 5,505
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Originally Posted by brayzie View Post
Wasn't he going through a divorce at the time, which affected his output, or was that Spielberg? I can imagine why after 7 or 8 years he might just want to be done with it. I heard that the first two films were pretty stressful to make, and he was juggling so much at the time, Lucas probably felt that his homage to Flash Gordon was no longer a top priority. But I agree, it's too bad that he didn't have more foresight.



Yup. Leia and Luke being brother and sister is a painfully obvious rush job to wrap up loose ends like Yoda's line of "No, there is another." It was a nice twist, where this time, the hero doesn't get the girl.

It would have been great to have the original ending of ROTJ play out. The celebration on Endor was a little anti-climactic.
What was the original ending supposed to be? I've never heard it before.
Sonny Corinthos is offline  
Old 05-29-16, 10:42 AM
  #9972  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Conducting miss-aisle drills and listening to their rock n roll
Posts: 17,378
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

When I say primitive I mean that they have intergalactic flight but they don't have a means by which Han can "call ahead" and let Lando know that he's coming. It's like a western. Other than the space ships it's like early America.
Mabuse is offline  
Old 05-29-16, 10:58 AM
  #9973  
DVD Talk Legend
 
milo bloom's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Chicago suburbs
Posts: 12,987
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin View Post
Sort of.

I've always had a similar problem with Han's "hokey religions" line, more so after the PT. The Jedi were a force to be reckoned with a mere 20 or so years prior, while Han would have been a kid. There would have been stories or people would have seen something. It would be different if we are talking a couple generations.

To put that in perspective, that'd be like saying Desert Storm never happened. We're talking about a galactic war with the galaxy's greatest warriors. There isn't a single news clip from 20 years prior? Nothing taught in schools? Parent's didn't bring it up with their kids? Actually, if we're tighter on the timeline, Luke was 18 and Jedi were prevalent almost right up to his birth. We're only a few years from the 18 year anniversary of 9/11. Do we not celebrate the lives lost that day? Tell of the firefighters and police officers that sacrificed their lives?
Yeah, we sure do celebrate the firefighters and police who lost their lives. And while they certainly did sacrifice their lives, the media and government also make sure to remind us every year.

Know what they don't remind us? Most of the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia (not Iraq or Afghanistan, you know, the two countries we invaded) . Know what else they don't remind us of? There were no WMDs in Iraq.

I have no doubt Palpatine would have had no problem manipulating the populace into believing the Jedi were traitorous tricksters (and the few that did remember were afraid to speak up).
milo bloom is offline  
Old 05-29-16, 11:18 AM
  #9974  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Conducting miss-aisle drills and listening to their rock n roll
Posts: 17,378
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

The Jedi we are shown in I-III are an ineffectual committee who at one point discuss whether they should admit that their ability to use the force has diminished. They're on their way out. They have cool lightsaber tricks but that's about it.

Last edited by Mabuse; 05-29-16 at 11:55 AM.
Mabuse is offline  
Old 05-29-16, 04:16 PM
  #9975  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
JeremyM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 1,237
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
When I say primitive I mean that they have intergalactic flight but they don't have a means by which Han can "call ahead" and let Lando know that he's coming. It's like a western. Other than the space ships it's like early America.
Han does have a way of calling ahead (he speaks to someone on Cloud City as they approach), but he had a falling out with Lando and there were hard feelings, which is implied when Han says something to Chewie like, "That was a long time ago, surely he's forgotten all about that."
JeremyM is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.