Following up in our conversation in the "Covenant" thread. No, "Covenant" in no where near as good as "Prometheus". I thought it was terrible and loved "Prometheus" as much as you. And I know many many people hate it. But it's "2001" and "Blade Runner" (even the first "Alien") compared to "Covenant". Nothing about that movie worked for me. The cast, the script, the acting. I'm still pissed that Scott couldn't at least finish what he started with "Prometheus". I wanted to learn more about Shaw and those Engineers. Not the crap story from "Covenant". Just awful.

I, for one, am glad Ridley Scott did not make the film you wanted to see.

I think that Prometheus would have worked a lot better had it not had any specific ties to the Alien series (the Aliens, the Space Jockeys) other than Weyland-Yutani and maybe some Gigerish aesthetics. And then Covenant ramped that up even more.

The thing about the Aliens is, if you know about them and where they come from, they lose their mystique. The more we know about their origins, the less scary they become.

They had a chance to do a sort of soft reboot of the Alien and Predator franchises here, into a kind of cinematic universe, if they would have used Prometheus to quietly retool all three franchises. Keep Alien, Aliens, and the Predator movies in continuity, then, going forward, make that Blomkamp Aliens sequel with Weaver, reboot AvP, etc.

i'm not sure why you are even mentioning Alien and Predator in the same sentence. those mash-ups are true abominations and Predator has nothing to do with Alien except some stupid studio exec who said, "hey, let's make a bunch of money by putting these two alien races together (even though they have nothing whatsoever to do with each other) in the same movie."

Prometheus showed the origin of the Alien species and who cares, it was scary as fuck (imo) and fits perfectly in the Alien franchise timeline and was the perfect beginning of it all imo.

Predator shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as Alien and i truly could give a fuck about where the Predators came from or their origin story but Scott took his first Alien classic and showed us the beginning in true stunning, scary, horror fashion. make no bones about it, Prometheus was a true origin story for Alien and i'm so glad we got the original film's creator to make it, because he did a splendid job.

and no it doesn't diminish in the least the greatness and scary as fuckness of Alien and Aliens. If anything it just enhances the true nature and horror of the continuing franchise in the Alien saga...

Well, the seeds were planted long before the first AvP movie. Predator 2 shows an Alien skull in the Predator's ship back in 1990, although that was maybe intended as an in-joke instead of explicitly tying together the two universes.

Comics did the first AvP crossover in 1989:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...nchise)_comics

There was an Alien vs Predator SNES game in 1993:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_vs_Predator_(SNES)

I think more remember the 1994 AvP Jaguar game though, even if they didn't play it themselves:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_...ri_Jaguar_game)

So the AvP movies were building off of consumers buying a range of AvP properties for over a decade before.

right and then some stupid studio exec said let's put these aliens together in a movie/movies (milk it to death) and make even more money. end story. these franchises couldn't be more different and are worlds apart in a theatrical sense...

I don't think that's necessarily true. Take this synopsis:

"A group of soldiers arrive at a remote location for a mission. They encounter an alien presence. Gradually through various firefights, the soldiers drop one by one, until the hero has a massive fight at the end, flees a giant explosion, and then leaves along with a survivor they encountered along the way"

Did I just describer Predator, or Aliens?

I think you just made a great case for why people need to stop deferring to plot so much in talking about film haha. Since the vibes and concentrations of the two films are relatively different, despite both also having "government/corporation is using soldiers for their own nefarious ends and badass soldiers are quickly shown to be outclassed by the alien(s)".

Also, this is a general question to all: Has the general public consensus on Prometheus gotten more positive with time? I remember when it first came out (and a few years afterwards), it was popular in comments sections and among my coworkers to dunk on the stupidity of the characters. I always liked the film, but I understand the complaint about the scientists taking off their helmets. Honestly, I hadn't even thought about that until someone pointed it out to me. Did people begin to believe that the other aspects of the film outweighed poor choices by the characters? I know critics at the time felt that it was fairly solid, at least.

I thought the movie was pretty bad, but when I was a kid I really dug the AvP novels and comics. I have no idea if they still hold up, but I wouldn't mind seeing another attempt at that crossover.

you could say that about any genre movie that has a similar plot. spy movies, other horror movies, thrillers, rom-coms. so Predator copied Alien formula. that's nothing new, when a movie takes a similar formula and uses it over and over.

I actually feel the "vibe" of each film is very similar. I don't know what you mean by "concentrations".

I don't know about the "general public consensus," but I rewatched it recently after watching Covenant, and on second viewing, it wasn't as aggravating, but I wouldn't call it "good." I just knew of all the stupid stuff already, and could appreciate the effects, action, cinematography, etc. a bit more. It seems like if went by a bit faster as well, and I realized how little "there" there was to the film.

Looking at the RottenTomatoes score, the critical score has largely stayed the same (74% then vs 73% now), while the audience score has gone down (74% to 68%).
https://web.archive.org/web/20120613...ometheus_2012/
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/prometheus_2012

Have to be describing Predator. Cause in Aliens, their is another major boss battle after the explosion.

Well, that's sort of the point: They're both movies in the same genre with a similar plot. They're not "worlds apart in a theatrical sense." There's a reason they keep getting mashed together over various media, and it's only partially because they're properties by the same studio.

Well, Predator is basically a riff on "The Most Dangerous Game," with the hunter being an alien creature. While Alien is more of a haunted house/slasher type movie.

There is an interesting dynamic when pitting the two monsters against each other that's compelling, more so than other combinations. Predator is a hunter, relying on advanced tech as much as brute strength, while the Aliens, especially from sequel on, rely on animal instinct as well as overwhelming numbers. The Aliens are arguable far more dangerous game for the Predator than humans are, and the Predator is far more deadly than a human is to the Aliens. It's interesting to think of humans being in the middle of the pack, caught in the crossfire, or even maybe able to temporarily align with the Predator.

Well aren't you the clever one.

Yes, in pure sequence of events, it's Predator. I noticed that when writing it, but felt it still got my main point across. Maybe I should've gone with a list of similarities instead of a sequence of events.

Yeah, the first AvP movie was bad, and the second got such bad reviews I've never bothered watching it. But I think that's more a reflection on those particular movies than on the basic premise of crossing over the characters.

I mean, the Alien movies on their own have been very hit-and-miss, as have the standalone Predator films. I think the fact that there's at least one good movie in each standalone franchise, while both of the crossover movies are bad, maybe colors people's opinions of what's a viable movie franchise and what's not.

i can see that, but i hope you're not forgetting that in all the Alien movies and the 2 original Predator movies (Arnie and Glover), it was humankind that bested each species. so putting both species above humans, while they are clearly superior in strength and weaponry (whether it is Predator's guns and knives, brute strength and such or Alien acid blood or anything else on their body), it would seem that mentally/intellectually, at least, the humans have won out, no?

Had you watched it any since 2012 before this viewing? I agree that the visuals do suck you in for a bit, but once you do away with them all your left with is something akin to a typical horror movie with a bunch of (lord help them) "professionals" acting like grown up versions of the annoying teens in horror movies. I also don't think Scott was at the top of his game with this one. In fact, I would argue he hasn't truly been at the top of his game since Black Hawk Down. I was blown away myself when I saw Prometheus in theaters, but I saw it in IMAX 3D which really lead to me overpraising it at first. Once I started watching it at home, it really started to lose its luster, quickly. Now don't get me wrong, I still like to watch it for its visuals, but that's all I really like about it. Covenant also looked good, but had even dumber characters, and the AVP movies, especially the second one, were horrific.

no, this was first time since 2012 and i did see it on Blu-ray 3D and yes, the visuals are stunning, but what gripped me was the story and how it truly was more horror than i thought back in 2012. i don't get scared by horror movies ever now, but this was gripping, thrilling and truly horrifying. it sucked me in like no horror movie in recent memory and i couldn't even take a break. even my doggie suffered because i didn't take her out at her usual time because i was so entranced and as i said edge of my seat (don't worry she only waited and extra 5 minutes) and couldn't take a break, especially since it was near the very end. i truly don't remember feeling like this way back. Fassbender was fiendishly amazing (with his agenda bc or Weyland) as David as was Rapace as Shaw, yes, the others were your typical bait characters (save for maybe Logan Marshall-Green, Idris Elba and the 2 that stayed behind with him. and my god Benedict Wong was so skinny, compared to his Marvel character now), but there was just something about it, last night, that gripped me tight...

Jay G. I just mean how Aliens has a lot more thematic currents of motherhood versus military and corporate greed, whereas Predator is much more "Hey everybody, do you all want to see some beefcakes fight a monster?" And the atmosphere/vibe of Aliens feels much more nihilistic/uncaring (and how to face that, maybe even a rejection of it), compared to Predator's Darwinian survival story. That said, I like Predator more, even if it is more lizard-brain-don't-die than the humanistic Aliens. The latter asks you to stop and think for a second, the former requests no such neural impulses.

Well, in terms of bodycount, no. Both Alien and Predator have a lone alien that kills many people. And in the first two Alien films, the humans ultimately opt for a massive explosion to kill everything (nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure). But that's part of the thrill, the humans are obviously the underdog in both fights.

They're not identical, but they're also not "worlds apart." There's similarities and differences, but I think there's something about both franchises that make them compatible with each other, and has lead to a lot of crossovers in various forms of media. It's just that the AvP movies we've gotten so far have sucked.

Yes, of course they are the underdogs, but my point was they won in end and maybe I’m miss remembering, but the final Alien was flushed out into space, so either way you look at it, humans won.

...and that first comic series would have made one glorious movie.

Find a happy place!

I'm with you. I will admit the writing wasn't great here and there. But overall I felt this was truly an epic experience. I loved the cast, the sets were amazing and that cinematography was just stunning. And I agree with everything Roper says here. He also still defends this film.