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-   -   Prometheus aka Прометей (Scott, 2012) — The Reviews Thread (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/movie-talk/602028-prometheus-aka-scott-2012-%97-reviews-thread.html)

Supermallet 06-09-12 02:20 PM
Re: Prometheus aka Прометей (Scott, 2012) — The Reviews Thread
 
It didn't need to follow the template of the first film. It did need to have fully realized characters who didn't always make the dumbest possible decisions in every situation. It needed to have a premise that wasn't stolen from AvP, and a resolution that wasn't stolen from Alien: Resurrection. It needed to have a screenwriter who was interested in asking important questions and then giving people the opportunity to find answers. It needed to not suspend logic repeatedly. The film failed on all those levels.

rennervision 06-09-12 02:21 PM
Re: Prometheus aka Прометей (Scott, 2012) — The Reviews Thread
 
I just don't understand why everyone loving this movie is OK with the notion that practically all of this has to happen again on yet a different planet. A human will need to be infected, impregnate another human, spawn a giant facehugger that will attack a Space Jockey, said Space Jockey will need to sit in the cockpit of his ship, then a Xenomorph will burst out of his chest, stranding the ship on the planet. I'm willing to suspend disbelief, but not to ludicrous levels.

I could have overlooked every silly moment: Scientists with mapping devices getting lost and ending up in the very room that spooked them to then cuddle with space cobras. No one bothering to ask why a crew-member is running around covered in blood with staples in her stomach. Characters I didn't even know were onboard the ship suddenly dying. (Really elevates the tension when a meaningless character you don't care about dies! That stuff is straight out of the AVP playbook if you ask me.)

But - I can't overlook these moments based on how this ended. If the movie doesn't even have enough sense to tie the events of this story to the first Alien, that's where I consider it to be the final insult to my intelligence - because the movie spent two hours pretending to be profound when it has nothing to say.

I suspect the reason we were left with big gaping plotholes is a desperate attempt to create a new franchise and milk this thing for all its worth. Except the story is too shallow to spread out over three films. They should have just concentrated on telling one awe-inspiring story this time around (you know, like most good movies do!), when instead they wimped out and aimed for part 1of a trilogy that I doubt will ever see a sequel.

So I don't plan on holding my breath for any kind of followup addressing the unanswered questions. Which therefore puts this movie in the same category as Terminator: Salvation which (like Prometheus) could have been good if it actually had the courage to tell a complete story that wrapped up the events in its own mythology.

Why So Blu? 06-09-12 02:31 PM
Re: Prometheus aka Прометей (Scott, 2012) — The Reviews Thread
 
Originally Posted by Supermallet (Post 11265789)
It didn't need to follow the template of the first film. It did need to have fully realized characters who didn't always make the dumbest possible decisions in every situation. It needed to have a premise that wasn't stolen from AvP, and a resolution that wasn't stolen from Alien: Resurrection. It needed to have a screenwriter who was interested in asking important questions and then giving people the opportunity to find answers. It needed to not suspend logic repeatedly. The film failed on all those levels.

It didn't need to, but you would have preferred it to.

Supermallet 06-09-12 02:33 PM
Re: Prometheus aka Прометей (Scott, 2012) — The Reviews Thread
 
If the movie were well written with strong characters, it could have followed the template of Who Framed Roger Rabbit for all I care.

Why So Blu? 06-09-12 02:33 PM
Re: Prometheus aka Прометей (Scott, 2012) — The Reviews Thread
 
Originally Posted by rennervision (Post 11265790)
I just don't understand why everyone loving this movie is OK with the notion that practically all of this has to happen again on yet a different planet. A human will need to be infected, impregnate another human, spawn a giant facehugger that will attack a Space Jockey, said Space Jockey will need to sit in the cockpit of his ship, then a Xenomorph will burst out of his chest, stranding the ship on the planet. I'm willing to suspend disbelief, but not to ludicrous levels.

I could have overlooked every silly moment: Scientists with mapping devices getting lost and ending up in the very room that spooked them to then cuddle with space cobras. No one bothering to ask why a crew-member is running around covered in blood with staples in her stomach. Characters I didn't even know were onboard the ship suddenly dying. (Really elevates the tension when a meaningless character you don't care about dies! That stuff is straight out of the AVP playbook if you ask me.)

But - I can't overlook these moments based on how this ended. If the movie doesn't even have enough sense to tie the events of this story to the first Alien, that's where I consider it to be the final insult to my intelligence - because the movie spent two hours pretending to be profound when it has nothing to say.

I suspect the reason we were left with big gaping plotholes is a desperate attempt to create a new franchise and milk this thing for all its worth. Except the story is too shallow to spread out over three films. They should have just concentrated on telling one awe-inspiring story this time around (you know, like most good movies do!), when instead they wimped out and aimed for part 1of a trilogy that I doubt will ever see a sequel.

So I don't plan on holding my breath for any kind of followup addressing the unanswered questions. Which therefore puts this movie in the same category as Terminator: Salvation which (like Prometheus) could have been good if it actually had the courage to tell a complete story that wrapped up the events in its own mythology.

Ah, you wanted the Keep It Simple Stupid rule in effect here. Then just watch Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection.

Why So Blu? 06-09-12 02:35 PM
Re: Prometheus aka Прометей (Scott, 2012) — The Reviews Thread
 
Originally Posted by Supermallet (Post 11265796)
If the movie were well written with strong characters, it could have followed the template of Who Framed Roger Rabbit for all I care.



Shaw WAS strong! The other off base comparison I'm seeing is the whole: Shaw ain't Ripley. No shit, Ripley's had FOUR fucking films to develop. I hope Shaw does become the new Ripley in this Prometheus universe should they make a sequel to this film.

Supermallet 06-09-12 02:36 PM
Re: Prometheus aka Прометей (Scott, 2012) — The Reviews Thread
 
Keep it simple, stupid is a rule in effect for storytellers who tend to make things needlessly complicated. This movie could definitely have used a heaping dose of KISS.

Cardiff Giant11 06-09-12 02:36 PM
Re: Prometheus aka Прометей (Scott, 2012) — The Reviews Thread
 
Saw it last night in Real 3D. I had read some spoilers going in so I expected to dislike it but I ended up liking it a bit though it was far from great.

The good:
Visuals were stunning in 3D, Fassbender was awesome, Space Jockey design worked for me which surprised me, creature design was better than expected

the bad:
the deviation from what we know of the Alien life cycle, some very cardboard characters and hokey dialog

The ugly:
HORRIBLE score, sounded like it belonged in a world war 2 movie not a sci fi horror film. It built like zero tension. I also wasn't a fan of some seemingly poor edits and cuts as well as some concept art/designs that were left out.

I'm going to Spoiler this just in case but my and a few other's seem to think this is the best way to explain it all.
Spoiler:
The derelict in Alien crashed(due to the jockey being chestbursted) thousands of years ago carrying the last eggs of the Xenomorph and was never seen again by them. The engineers saw it as a perfect weapon and much like Weyland Yutani, we trying to get their hands on it somehow and were attempting to re create it. This would explain the mural that seemed like it was some sort of worship or tribute to the xenomorph. The black goo contained some strand of the aliens dna characteristics that caused creatures it came into contact with to experience xenomorph like traits. This explains why the worms became the hammerpedes with acidic blood and also why (especially in the original concept work) Fifeld appeared to be mutating into something resembling a xenomorph. Fast forward to the whole Shaw bit and you have something that inherits some of the traits of a facehugger/chestburster but since it's based on a recreation of the original xenomorph DNA, things are different which explains why the alien in the end while similar doesn't have a tail and has a different jaw than our "classic" xenomoprhs. think of it like how humans created androids. Jockeys were trying to recreated the seemingly extinct perfect weapon that was the xenomorph but failed and that was what caused the outbreak on LV-223. It wasn't until years later that the company stumbled across the distress signal on LV-426 and sent the crew of the Nostromo that the original "pure" xenomorph was found again. The original xenomorph was just another naturally occurring species and wasn't created by the engineers instead they were trying to recreate it but failed and in the process created a different but similar species.


Overall I liked it more than I thought but still didn't love it. Was worth seeing in 3D in the theater. I'll be interested in seeing if any sort of extended edition comes out on Blu Ray.

Why So Blu? 06-09-12 02:38 PM
Re: Prometheus aka Прометей (Scott, 2012) — The Reviews Thread
 
Originally Posted by Supermallet (Post 11265801)
Keep it simple, stupid is a rule in effect for storytellers who tend to make things needlessly complicated. This movie could definitely have used a heaping dose of KISS.

And you were wrong for thinking it would have that.

Supermallet 06-09-12 02:40 PM
Re: Prometheus aka Прометей (Scott, 2012) — The Reviews Thread
 
Originally Posted by Why So Blu? (Post 11265799)
Shaw WAS strong! The other off base comparison I'm seeing is the whole: Shaw ain't Ripley. No shit, Ripley's had FOUR fucking films to develop. I hope Shaw does become the new Ripley in this Prometheus universe should they make a sequel to this film.
Shaw was NOT strong. I didn't give two shits about her. The one flashback with her father is not enough to develop the character, nor is the blase admission that she's barren. David, on the other hand, was (strong, that is, not barren). Vickers could have been if they bothered to develop her at all, which they didn't.

I don't recall making comparisons to Ripley. I didn't need another Ripley in this film, and I don't think the two are similar at all. Ripley is practical and down to earth. She worries about what's right in front of her. Shaw is idealistic and worries about the big picture.

Why So Blu? 06-09-12 02:41 PM
Re: Prometheus aka Прометей (Scott, 2012) — The Reviews Thread
 
Originally Posted by Cardiff Giant11 (Post 11265802)
Saw it last night in Real 3D. I had read some spoilers going in so I expected to dislike it but I ended up liking it a bit though it was far from great.

The good:
Visuals were stunning in 3D, Fassbender was awesome, Space Jockey design worked for me which surprised me, creature design was better than expected

the bad:
the deviation from what we know of the Alien life cycle, some very cardboard characters and hokey dialog

The ugly:
HORRIBLE score, sounded like it belonged in a world war 2 movie not a sci fi horror film. It built like zero tension. I also wasn't a fan of some seemingly poor edits and cuts as well as some concept art/designs that were left out.

I'm going to Spoiler this just in case but my and a few other's seem to think this is the best way to explain it all.
Spoiler:
The derelict in Alien crashed(due to the jockey being chestbursted) thousands of years ago carrying the last eggs of the Xenomorph and was never seen again by them. The engineers saw it as a perfect weapon and much like Weyland Yutani, we trying to get their hands on it somehow and were attempting to re create it. This would explain the mural that seemed like it was some sort of worship or tribute to the xenomorph. The black goo contained some strand of the aliens dna characteristics that caused creatures it came into contact with to experience xenomorph like traits. This explains why the worms became the hammerpedes with acidic blood and also why (especially in the original concept work) Fifeld appeared to be mutating into something resembling a xenomorph. Fast forward to the whole Shaw bit and you have something that inherits some of the traits of a facehugger/chestburster but since it's based on a recreation of the original xenomorph DNA, things are different which explains why the alien in the end while similar doesn't have a tail and has a different jaw than our "classic" xenomoprhs. think of it like how humans created androids. Jockeys were trying to recreated the seemingly extinct perfect weapon that was the xenomorph but failed and that was what caused the outbreak on LV-223. It wasn't until years later that the company stumbled across the distress signal on LV-426 and sent the crew of the Nostromo that the original "pure" xenomorph was found again. The original xenomorph was just another naturally occurring species and wasn't created by the engineers instead they were trying to recreate it but failed and in the process created a different but similar species.


Overall I liked it more than I thought but still didn't love it. Was worth seeing in 3D in the theater. I'll be interested in seeing if any sort of extended edition comes out on Blu Ray.


Yes, I agree with most of what you said in your spoilers paragraph.

rennervision 06-09-12 02:41 PM
Re: Prometheus aka Прометей (Scott, 2012) — The Reviews Thread
 
Originally Posted by Why So Blu? (Post 11265797)
Ah, you wanted the Keep It Simple Stupid rule in effect here. Then just watch Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection.
Not sure why disliking Prometheus means I would prefer those two, which I refuse to ever watch again.

Supermallet 06-09-12 02:42 PM
Re: Prometheus aka Прометей (Scott, 2012) — The Reviews Thread
 
Originally Posted by Why So Blu? (Post 11265806)
And you were wrong for thinking it would have that.
But not wrong for thinking it SHOULD have that. Lindelof should be forced to follow it on pain of death.

Cardiff, your theory is the best one I've yet heard. I think it's great. In fact, it makes so much more sense than what the movie implies that I'm almost certain the filmmakers didn't think of it at all.

Why So Blu? 06-09-12 02:45 PM
Re: Prometheus aka Прометей (Scott, 2012) — The Reviews Thread
 
Originally Posted by Supermallet (Post 11265809)
Shaw was NOT strong. I didn't give two shits about her. The one flashback with her father is not enough to develop the character, nor is the blase admission that she's barren. David, on the other hand, was. Vickers could have been if they bothered to develop her at all, which they didn't.

I don't recall making comparisons to Ripley. I didn't need another Ripley in this film, and I don't think the two are similar at all. Ripley is practical and down to earth. She worries about what's right in front of her. Shaw is idealistic and worries about the big picture.

I didn't say you said anything about the Ripley/Shaw comparisons, I just made the general statement about certain folks complaining about "Shaw ain't no Ripley."

Seriously, she was strong on an emotional level and physical level. I do hope that it gets fleshed out more in the director's or unrated cut.
Spoiler:
That cut of her clasping her hands in prayer in the trailer was not in the theatrical of the film. That would have cinched it for me. Right there, she's in mortal danger, and questions her faith.


You didn't give two shits about anything it seems. You had your own preconceived notions about what the film should have been like.

Supermallet 06-09-12 02:46 PM
Re: Prometheus aka Прометей (Scott, 2012) — The Reviews Thread
 
Yes, I had the preconceived notion that the film should be good. And I gave two shits about David, as I've stressed repeatedly.

Why So Blu? 06-09-12 02:50 PM
Re: Prometheus aka Прометей (Scott, 2012) — The Reviews Thread
 
Originally Posted by rennervision (Post 11265812)
Not sure why disliking Prometheus means I would prefer those two, which I refuse to ever watch again.

That's how I read into it.

rennervision 06-09-12 02:52 PM
Re: Prometheus aka Прометей (Scott, 2012) — The Reviews Thread
 
Originally Posted by Why So Blu? (Post 11265820)
That's how I read into it.
Then I guess you misinterpreted.

Solid Snake 06-09-12 03:02 PM
Re: Prometheus aka Прометей (Scott, 2012) — The Reviews Thread
 
Supermallet, I respect your words a lot for the most part. And the ONLY way I mentally connect w/ you and your huge emotions on this is if I could get this angry from The Expendables..or to a lesser extent Transformers, Green Lantern, Superman, and Terminator.

You've been a fan for so long. Blah blah blah insert nostalgia, fandom, etc. You get a film w/ a premise promising you something want (or close to it) and it fails you.

Now the difference is that...jesus titty fucking christ. You are way to involved w/ Alien (and whatever that as a whole means). You are way too involved w/ something that doesn't even know you (in the literal sense...you..being Supermallet) exist.

Mellow out, man. Yes. I agree w/ you and was glad you posted that list of faults cuz I sure as hell don't feel like typing that all on my Blackberry. BUT...relax.

Why So Blu? 06-09-12 03:04 PM
Re: Prometheus aka Прометей (Scott, 2012) — The Reviews Thread
 
Originally Posted by Solid Snake PAC (Post 11265830)
Supermallet, I respect your words a lot for the most part. And the ONLY way I mentally connect w/ you and your huge emotions on this is if I could get this angry from The Expendables..or to a lesser extent Transformers, Green Lantern, Superman, and Terminator.

You've been a fan for so long. Blah blah blah insert nostalgia, fandom, etc. You get a film w/ a premise promising you something want (or close to it) and it fails you.

Now the difference is that...jesus titty fucking christ. You are way to involved w/ Alien (and whatever that as a whole means). You are way too involved w/ something that doesn't even know you (in the literal sense...you..being Supermallet) exist.

Mellow out, man. Yes. I agree w/ you and was glad you posted that list of faults cuz I sure as hell don't feel like typing that all on my Blackberry. BUT...relax.
Wait, Supermallet is a fan of the Transformers and Green Lantern films? Did I just waste my fucking time going back and forth with him?

bcd 06-09-12 03:05 PM
Re: Prometheus aka Прометей (Scott, 2012) — The Reviews Thread
 
Originally Posted by Cardiff Giant11 (Post 11265802)

I'm going to Spoiler this just in case but my and a few other's seem to think this is the best way to explain it all.
Spoiler:
The derelict in Alien crashed(due to the jockey being chestbursted) thousands of years ago carrying the last eggs of the Xenomorph and was never seen again by them. The engineers saw it as a perfect weapon and much like Weyland Yutani, we trying to get their hands on it somehow and were attempting to re create it. This would explain the mural that seemed like it was some sort of worship or tribute to the xenomorph. The black goo contained some strand of the aliens dna characteristics that caused creatures it came into contact with to experience xenomorph like traits. This explains why the worms became the hammerpedes with acidic blood and also why (especially in the original concept work) Fifeld appeared to be mutating into something resembling a xenomorph. Fast forward to the whole Shaw bit and you have something that inherits some of the traits of a facehugger/chestburster but since it's based on a recreation of the original xenomorph DNA, things are different which explains why the alien in the end while similar doesn't have a tail and has a different jaw than our "classic" xenomoprhs. think of it like how humans created androids. Jockeys were trying to recreated the seemingly extinct perfect weapon that was the xenomorph but failed and that was what caused the outbreak on LV-223. It wasn't until years later that the company stumbled across the distress signal on LV-426 and sent the crew of the Nostromo that the original "pure" xenomorph was found again. The original xenomorph was just another naturally occurring species and wasn't created by the engineers instead they were trying to recreate it but failed and in the process created a different but similar species.

I kind of like your take on that. Here were my thoughts
Spoiler:
The black goo that we are seeing is the start of the whole alien life cycle. With each generational change there are huge evolutionary leaps that happen when the initial alien DNA combines with the host. This is noticed most specifically with the Dog Alien from Alien 3 and the Predator Alien from whatever movie that was from. You can see that the little cobra aliens have a small resembalnce to the Face Huggers that we all know and love. The alien DNA goes from very simple looking creatures to more complex by the end of the movie. My presumption was the alien that came form the engineer would lead to the impregnation of the "Space Jockey" and the alien that we know and love from ALIEN. I still need to flesh out my thoughts on this some to connect the dots. I am a a little tired and apologize if this makes no sense. .


Also, really enjoyed the movie but for the life of me I can't figure out why the hell someone would bring their 8yr old daughter to this movie. And then not do anything when she is crying and screaming in pure terror except telling her to be quiet.

Burnt Thru 06-09-12 03:05 PM
Re: Prometheus aka Прометей (Scott, 2012) — The Reviews Thread
 
Important questions?! What the fuck? As much as I love Alien and Aliens what were the important questions asked in those films? Which if any crew member is going to survive?

This film didn't have to answer or ask any "important questions". Neither was there a lack of any characterization (certainly far better in this regard than the 3rd and 4th film in the same universe). The problems it has are more to do with a screenplay asking too many questions and providing too few answers, and on occasion simply ignoring the questions it has hinted at. It's certainly flawed but also fun and contains some stunning visuals. Much of the hate on this thread seems to come from people unhappy with the way it fits into the Alien universe, which is largely a question of preconceived expectations failing to be met.

Why So Blu? 06-09-12 03:11 PM
Re: Prometheus aka Прометей (Scott, 2012) — The Reviews Thread
 
Originally Posted by Burnt Thru (Post 11265837)
Important questions?! What the fuck? As much as I love Alien and Aliens what were the important questions asked in those films? Which if any crew member is going to survive?

This film didn't have to answer or ask any "important questions". Neither was there a lack of any characterization (certainly far better in this regard than the 3rd and 4th film in the same universe). The problems it has are more to do with a screenplay asking too many questions and providing too few answers, and on occasion simply ignoring the questions it has hinted at. It's certainly flawed but also fun and contains some stunning visuals. Much of the hate on this thread seems to come from people unhappy with the way it fits into the Alien universe, which is largely a question of preconceived expectations failing to be met.
Exactly.

Why So Blu? 06-09-12 03:14 PM
Re: Prometheus aka Прометей (Scott, 2012) — The Reviews Thread
 
Originally Posted by bcd (Post 11265836)
I kind of like your take on that. Here were my thoughts
Spoiler:
The black goo that we are seeing is the start of the whole alien life cycle. With each generational change there are huge evolutionary leaps that happen when the initial alien DNA combines with the host. This is noticed most specifically with the Dog Alien from Alien 3 and the Predator Alien from whatever movie that was from. You can see that the little cobra aliens have a small resembalnce to the Face Huggers that we all know and love. The alien DNA goes from very simple looking creatures to more complex by the end of the movie. My presumption was the alien that came form the engineer would lead to the impregnation of the "Space Jockey" and the alien that we know and love from ALIEN. I still need to flesh out my thoughts on this some to connect the dots. I am a a little tired and apologize if this makes no sense. .


Also, really enjoyed the movie but for the life of me I can't figure out why the hell someone would bring their 8yr old daughter to this movie. And then not do anything when she is crying and screaming in pure terror except telling her to be quiet.


Yes! Exactly. I also agree with your paragraph in the spoilers. Some folks just don't see the correlation.

Supermallet 06-09-12 03:25 PM
Re: Prometheus aka Прометей (Scott, 2012) — The Reviews Thread
 
Originally Posted by Why So Blu? (Post 11265833)
Wait, Supermallet is a fan of the Transformers and Green Lantern films? Did I just waste my fucking time going back and forth with him?
I liked the first Transformers although it has bloat and unnecessary characters. The second and third are abominable. Green Lantern was meh.

And Snake, sometimes it's good to get the blood going. I will always love the Alien series, and will always be passionate about it.

Oh, and plenty of us get the correlation between the goo and the Xenomorphs. We just think it's stupid. I much prefer Cardiff Giant's thoughts about it.

anomynous 06-09-12 03:29 PM
Re: Prometheus aka Прометей (Scott, 2012) — The Reviews Thread
 
Alien and Aliens had "deep questions" and Ripley was a "deep" character?


That's news to me


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