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DVD Talk Forum (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/)
-   Movie Talk (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/movie-talk-17/)
-   -   Roman Polanski arrested (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/movie-talk/562167-roman-polanski-arrested.html)

dhmac 10-03-09 09:35 AM
Re: Roman Polanski arrested
 
Originally Posted by wirefan (Post 9747754)
EXACTLY! The second he fled the plea bargain was GONE and the whole "the rape charges were dismissed" is wrong (funny I don't see you clinging on to your: "Rpae Charges: Dismissed" statement of fact anymore).... can you not understand this? The TERMS of the plea bargain are not enforceable until sentencing and the defendent turns himself in. There may have been a plea bargain AGREEMENT, but its terms are not legally enforceable in this case as Polanski fled and evaded capture. Now the DA could choose to setup a similar plea 30 years later if he wants or if he is concerned about the case, but that is merely an option.
Isn't that up to the D.A.'s and Polanski's defense to agree on if the plea bargain agreement is gone or not? After all, it's an agreement between the prosecution and defense, is it not? And the state of the case, courtroom-wise, is like a long recess with all the proceedings up until 1978 already a matter of court record. Given that it has a guilty plea in it, I doubt the D.A. will want to drop the agreement and then have to prove guilt in a jury trial when the victim in the case sympathizes with the defendant and rape trials are notoriously tough to win for the prosecution. And I doubt the defense would want to drop the agreement given that it then would open up the remote risk of possibly losing a trial and getting a long prison sentence. So I would be very surprised if either side throws out the plea bargain agreement.

The main wildcard that I see is the D.A. could add new charges for fleeing, but I'm not sure what those charges may be.

dhmac 10-03-09 09:58 AM
Re: Roman Polanski arrested
 
Originally Posted by eXcentris (Post 9747804)
That's hardly an option for the D.A.'s office simply because you can't prosecute Polanski on the rape charge without a trial, and you can't have a trial without the victim's testimony. And the victim in this case will not testify.

"If Polanski's attempts to appeal his arrest and extradition to the United States fail and he is forced back to Los Angeles, he could face up to four years in state prison for the initial crime he pleaded guilty to before fleeing the United States. He could also face a maximum of three additional years served consecutively if the courts decide to charge him under California state penal code 3059 for leaving the state without permission."

So whether the rape charges have been dismissed or not is moot because he can't be prosecuted on these charges.

Furthermore there's the whole matter of the legality of his arrest (there's international law involved here) and what are the grounds for extradition.

If Polanski ever sets foot in the US, it will most likely be because a deal has been struck beforehand.
Thank you, eXcentris, that's the point I'm trying to make that wirefan simply doesn't get. The D.A. would not want to give up that guilty plea in order to go after a jury trial for rape. Their best option is to stick to the plea bargain agreement. (I also wonder if dismissed charges can even be re-applied or if that would be a violation of the "double jeopardy" law).

However, I don't think Polanski could be charged with "California state penal code 3059 for leaving the state without permission" because he was not on parole and the court granted him the freedom to leave the state or the country (Polanski had a damn good lawyer).

pjflyer 10-03-09 10:07 AM
Re: Roman Polanski arrested
 
I have tried to stay out of this debate as I find myself sympathetic to both sides. Here is an essay written by a friend of mine that ends with a great summation

"So, in the end here is what I think: Roman Polanski is a great filmmaker who has endured incredible personal hardship. The original court case against him was likely "fixed" (as far as the sentencing was concerned), and probably would have resulted in a mistrial. This terrible thing he did happened a long time ago and he has kept his nose clean ever since. However, in 1977 he drugged and raped a 13 year old girl. And if he were a bus driver, he would be Roman the bus driving child rapist."

The rest of the essay is worth reading:


http://sumopopblog.blogspot.com/2009/10/repulsion.html

dhmac 10-03-09 10:52 AM
Re: Roman Polanski arrested
 
Originally Posted by pjflyer (Post 9748571)
I have tried to stay out of this debate as I find myself sympathetic to both sides. Here is an essay written by a friend of mine that ends with a great summation

"So, in the end here is what I think: Roman Polanski is a great filmmaker who has endured incredible personal hardship. The original court case against him was likely "fixed" (as far as the sentencing was concerned), and probably would have resulted in a mistrial. This terrible thing he did happened a long time ago and he has kept his nose clean ever since. However, in 1977 he drugged and raped a 13 year old girl. And if he were a bus driver, he would be Roman the bus driving child rapist."

The rest of the essay is worth reading:


http://sumopopblog.blogspot.com/2009/10/repulsion.html
Good essay (and yet another person who recommends seeing "Roman Polanski: Wanted and Desired" :up: ). Aside from the debate on the legal aspect of the case that's dominating this thread and sticking to the public debate, what Polanski did was disgusting and he will never get his reputation back again. In the public's mind, he will always be thought of as a man who raped a girl.

But I think the view of apologists vs. the view of hardliners on this case comes down to differing views of the justice system. Some see the justice system as primarily needing to punish criminals, others see it as primarily needing to rehabilitate criminals. Punishment-wise, Polanski really didn't get much punishment (at least so far) for the severity of his crime. Rehabilitation-wise, he is completely rehabilitated and not a danger to society. And I think that's the real underlying difference between the major views.

(And it's very interesting that the victim's view falls on the "rehabilitated" side of the public debate because her view matters more than any other person's).

chris_sc77 10-03-09 12:06 PM
Re: Roman Polanski arrested
 
Originally Posted by DVD Josh (Post 9747213)

The victim's desires are IRRELEVANT.
I would vehemently disagree with this statement. If this country were truly "free" a victim's wishes should be honored.
The little chick was not innocent anyways. What was she doing hanging out with 30 year old perv like Polanski in the first place?

dan30oly 10-03-09 12:38 PM
Re: Roman Polanski arrested
 
Originally Posted by chris_sc77 (Post 9748752)
I would vehemently disagree with this statement. If this country were truly "free" a victim's wishes should be honored.
The little chick was not innocent anyways. What was she doing hanging out with 30 year old perv like Polanski in the first place?
Are you f*cking kidding me?

Have you paid attention to any of this?

collector_cliff 10-03-09 12:46 PM
Re: Roman Polanski arrested
 
Seems like the prosecutor featured in the Polanski documentary has come forward and admitted he lied...oops!

http://movies.msn.com/movies/article...6&affid=100055

Polanski's lawyers have recently filed for dismissal, based in part on allegations of misconduct brought to light in an HBO documentary last year that suggested behind-the-scenes manipulations by the judge, now deceased, and a prosecutor not assigned to the case.

That motion was dismissed because Polanski was a fugitive, though the judge acknowledged "substantial misconduct" in the original case. It's now in the hands of an appeals court.

The former prosecutor, David F. Wells, said Wednesday that he lied to the makers of the film "Roman Polanski: Wanted and Desired" about his interactions with the judge. He said he lied because he was told the film wouldn't air in the United States, an assertion denied by the film's director on Thursday.

BravesMG 10-03-09 12:50 PM
Re: Roman Polanski arrested
 
Originally Posted by dan30oly (Post 9748795)
Have you paid attention to any of this?
Trollin'

dhmac 10-03-09 02:15 PM
Re: Roman Polanski arrested
 
Originally Posted by collector_cliff (Post 9748805)
Seems like the prosecutor featured in the Polanski documentary has come forward and admitted he lied...oops!

http://movies.msn.com/movies/article...6&affid=100055
Yeah, that pretty much stops that attempt to get the case thrown out due to legal misconduct as his claim in the movie would've been. Now there's criticism of this guy, David F. Wells, for waiting until now to say that he lied because he says now "he was told the film wouldn't air in the U.S." well over a year after HBO aired the program in the U.S. (and which was a documentary that was an HBO production and, it has now come out, he was told was going to air in the U.S.). Why didn't he come clean earlier instead of waiting until now? I get the impression this guy lies all the time.

RyoHazuki 10-03-09 03:24 PM
Re: Roman Polanski arrested
 
Originally Posted by dhmac (Post 9748630)
Rehabilitation-wise, he is completely rehabilitated and not a danger to society.
How do you know this?

eXcentris 10-03-09 03:29 PM
Re: Roman Polanski arrested
 
What Wells said or did not say only constitutes a part of the accusations of procedural misconduct. When even the prosecution paints judge Rittenband's conduct of the case as "frivolous, contradictory, erratic, and injudicious" you have a problem...

dhmac 10-03-09 03:29 PM
Re: Roman Polanski arrested
 
Originally Posted by RyoHazuki (Post 9749061)
How do you know this?
He's been married for 19 years now with 2 kids and reportedly has a good family life. And he has not committed any known crimes in the last 31 years.

I think any court anywhere would consider that rehabilitated.

Supermallet 10-03-09 03:43 PM
Re: Roman Polanski arrested
 
Originally Posted by dhmac (Post 9749069)
He's been married for 19 years now with 2 kids and reportedly has a good family life. And he has not committed any known crimes in the last 31 years.

I think any court anywhere would consider that rehabilitated.
Not the court of public opinion. ;)

Deftones 10-03-09 03:57 PM
Re: Roman Polanski arrested
 
Originally Posted by chris_sc77 (Post 9748752)
I would vehemently disagree with this statement. If this country were truly "free" a victim's wishes should be honored.
The little chick was not innocent anyways. What was she doing hanging out with 30 year old perv like Polanski in the first place?
just when we thought your statements couldn't have been any more ridiculous, you go and say this...

RyoHazuki 10-03-09 04:56 PM
Re: Roman Polanski arrested
 
Originally Posted by dhmac (Post 9749069)
He's been married for 19 years now with 2 kids and reportedly has a good family life. And he has not committed any known crimes in the last 31 years.

I think any court anywhere would consider that rehabilitated.
I'm not saying you're wrong but I don't know how you can state as fact that he is 100% rehabilitated.

mhg83 10-03-09 05:05 PM
Re: Roman Polanski arrested
 
Originally Posted by RyoHazuki (Post 9749196)
I'm not saying you're wrong but I don't know how you can state as fact that he is 100% rehabilitated.
I've heard stories of child molesters that get married and have kids in order to be looked at from society as being normal.

dhmac 10-03-09 05:22 PM
Re: Roman Polanski arrested
 
Originally Posted by RyoHazuki (Post 9749196)
I'm not saying you're wrong but I don't know how you can state as fact that he is 100% rehabilitated.
True, but I don't even 100% know if you're not a danger to society either!

;)

RocShemp 10-03-09 05:50 PM
Re: Roman Polanski arrested
 
Originally Posted by chris_sc77 (Post 9748752)
I would vehemently disagree with this statement. If this country were truly "free" a victim's wishes should be honored.
The little chick was not innocent anyways. What was she doing hanging out with 30 year old perv like Polanski in the first place?
Wow... Now your ratings/runtimes rants don't seem as silly to me.

By your reasoning, if a battered wife makes a show of "he's not like this" and "but I love him," we should let her abuser go free. By your reasoning, if a man rapes a woman, despite their being evidence of his crime, we should free her rapist because his current victim wants to be left alone.

chris_sc77 10-03-09 08:25 PM
Re: Roman Polanski arrested
 
Originally Posted by RocShemp (Post 9749270)

By your reasoning, if a battered wife makes a show of "he's not like this" and "but I love him," we should let her abuser go free. By your reasoning, if a man rapes a woman, despite their being evidence of his crime, we should free her rapist because his current victim wants to be left alone.
I think if the victim in ANY crime (including abuse and Rape) says not to press charges then yeah of course I think the perpetrator go free.
I would never in my life defend these people and I would beat Polanski if I caught him with a minor and I was told I would get away with it but with this I dont see how anyone was really hurt. Especially when the "victim" says the prosecutors did more damage than Polanski.

Solid Snake 10-03-09 09:22 PM
Re: Roman Polanski arrested
 
.....wtf. wow.

dhmac 10-03-09 10:53 PM
Re: Roman Polanski arrested
 
Originally Posted by chris_sc77 (Post 9749529)
I think if the victim in ANY crime (including abuse and Rape) says not to press charges then yeah of course I think the perpetrator go free.
I would never in my life defend these people and I would beat Polanski if I caught him with a minor and I was told I would get away with it but with this I don't see how anyone was really hurt. Especially when the "victim" says the prosecutors did more damage than Polanski.
Well, I see what you are getting at, but this case is not that simple. If it was just dropping charges before going to court, then that would've been done. But the victim did want some justice and was OK with the plea bargain to drop all but one charge, which he plead guilty to in a court of law. So once in the court system, it's outside the victim's ability to simply drop the charges at that point. Only the D.A. can do it at that point, as I understand it. Although she thinks the punishment he's already received is enough justice, it's now outside her ability to make that choice anymore. I do think her wishes as the one and only victim in the case should be reflected in whatever decision is going to be made in the case as it goes forth, but unfortunately they don't necessarily have to at this point.

wm lopez 10-03-09 11:12 PM
Re: Roman Polanski arrested
 
Great to see Bill Maher not stick up for this guy.
See Bill Maher is not all bad.

Deftones 10-03-09 11:41 PM
Re: Roman Polanski arrested
 
Originally Posted by dhmac (Post 9749796)
Well, I see what you are getting at, but this case is not that simple. If it was just dropping charges before going to court, then that would've been done. But the victim did want some justice and was OK with the plea bargain to drop all but one charge, which he plead guilty to in a court of law. So once in the court system, it's outside the victim's ability to simply drop the charges at that point. Only the D.A. can do it at that point, as I understand it. Although she thinks the punishment he's already received is enough justice, it's now outside her ability to make that choice anymore. I do think her wishes as the one and only victim in the case should be reflected in whatever decision is going to be made in the case as it goes forth, but unfortunately they don't necessarily have to at this point.
victims don't charge people with crimes. the government (county, city) where the crime was committed is the charging agency. it doesn't matter if the victim files a police report and then recants their entire story. if the police and charging agency believe a crime has been committed and has the evidence to back it up, they don't need the victim. the victim is irrelevant in many cases. also, victims can't "drop the charges". now, there are certain circumstances where police won't charge and individual with a crime due to lack of victim cooperation, but those generally aren't rape cases.

Supermallet 10-04-09 01:10 AM
Re: Roman Polanski arrested
 
Originally Posted by wm lopez (Post 9749840)
See Bill Maher is not all bad.
Whaaaaaaat? Did someone hijack wm lopez's account?

Mr. Salty 10-04-09 02:00 AM
Re: Roman Polanski arrested
 
Originally Posted by chris_sc77 (Post 9749529)
I think if the victim in ANY crime (including abuse and Rape) says not to press charges then yeah of course I think the perpetrator go free.
The point of the criminal justice system is to deter criminals from committing additional offenses, against other people. You may be OK with letting a rapist go, but the next person he rapes probably isn't.


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