Rank the Bourne films
12-04-09 | 08:13 AM
#26
DVD Talk Godfather
Re: Rank the Bourne films
You are describing Supremacy to a tee. Ultimatum felt like Greengrass took the shaky-cam complaints on Supremacy to heart and showed a little restraint in the third outing.
Identity - best story, characters and exposition of the trilogy but doesn't do much in the way of action.
Supremacy - continues a solid story with great characters and adds the ADHD-Shaky Cam Deluxe 3000™ to the mix for action scenes. They could be great action scenes for all I know, if I could see what was going on. Christopher Nolan takes note and borrows the camera for Batman Begins. Overall it's a good balance between Identity and Ultimatum.
Ultimatum - Weakest story of the bunch, and the key players are missing, but the action sequences more than made up for it, especially since Greengrass went back to the ADHD-Shaky Cam Deluxe 1000™. I liked the quiet Bourne.
12-04-09 | 08:15 AM
#27
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Rank the Bourne films
Identity is my favorite of the 3, and the only one that feels like a complete movie.
Supremacy had a better storyline than Ultimatum, but Ultimatum had a little more excitement to it. Still, I'd go with Supremacy over Ultimatum.
My ranking:
1. The Bourne Identity (by far)
2. The Bourne Supremacy
3. The Bourne Ultimatum
I also really hate the seizure cam.
Supremacy had a better storyline than Ultimatum, but Ultimatum had a little more excitement to it. Still, I'd go with Supremacy over Ultimatum.
My ranking:
1. The Bourne Identity (by far)
2. The Bourne Supremacy
3. The Bourne Ultimatum
I also really hate the seizure cam.
Last edited by RichC2; 12-04-09 at 08:17 AM.
12-04-09 | 08:21 AM
#28
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 8,487
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Rank the Bourne films
The "Bourne without Greengrass" thread has made me interested in revisiting the series. It amazes me to see how many people prefer Ultimatum over Supremacy. I think most of us can agree that Identity is the least exciting of three, partially due to the lower stakes story (Bourne doesn't have the entire CIA on his ass), and partially due to Liman not being as hyperkinetic as Greengrass.
Supremacy amps everything up. Greengrass' direction is a complete 180 from Liman's, and the story encompasses far more than Treadstone. Using Bourne as misdirection for another plot is actually a great way to bring Bourne out of hiding without making it a generic "We're still looking for Bourne!" plot. And the killing of some major characters was a bold move that makes the film stand out in the series. While Greengrass was accused of abusing the shaky cam technique, most of Supremacy is not difficult on the eyes.
Ultimatum, on the other hand, feels bloated, pointless, and an excuse to toy around with the mechanics of the story in ways that are sometimes clever, and other times too clever. Given that most of the key Treadstone players are dead by the time of Ultimatum, the screenwriters now have to introduce new characters, none of whom are as interesting as Brian Cox or Chris Cooper. Nikki's sudden appearance is far too convenient, and her warmth for Bourne feels forced and awkward. And with Ultimatum, Greengrass jumps off the shaky cam deep end, making fights so blurry and uneven that you often can't tell what the hell is going on. The movie isn't without its good scenes, such as the Waterloo Station scene, and the sequence where Bourne tricks the CIA in their own backyard. But in exchange we also get several action setpieces that are basically remakes of similar scenes from Supremacy. The resolution with Albert Finney feels phony, especially since is character was never mentioned or seen prior to this film. Even if he had, the revelations are weak and feel like an afterthought.
Apparently I'm actually in the minority in holding this opinion, which surprises me. What does everyone see in Ultimatum that I am missing?
Supremacy amps everything up. Greengrass' direction is a complete 180 from Liman's, and the story encompasses far more than Treadstone. Using Bourne as misdirection for another plot is actually a great way to bring Bourne out of hiding without making it a generic "We're still looking for Bourne!" plot. And the killing of some major characters was a bold move that makes the film stand out in the series. While Greengrass was accused of abusing the shaky cam technique, most of Supremacy is not difficult on the eyes.
Ultimatum, on the other hand, feels bloated, pointless, and an excuse to toy around with the mechanics of the story in ways that are sometimes clever, and other times too clever. Given that most of the key Treadstone players are dead by the time of Ultimatum, the screenwriters now have to introduce new characters, none of whom are as interesting as Brian Cox or Chris Cooper. Nikki's sudden appearance is far too convenient, and her warmth for Bourne feels forced and awkward. And with Ultimatum, Greengrass jumps off the shaky cam deep end, making fights so blurry and uneven that you often can't tell what the hell is going on. The movie isn't without its good scenes, such as the Waterloo Station scene, and the sequence where Bourne tricks the CIA in their own backyard. But in exchange we also get several action setpieces that are basically remakes of similar scenes from Supremacy. The resolution with Albert Finney feels phony, especially since is character was never mentioned or seen prior to this film. Even if he had, the revelations are weak and feel like an afterthought.
Apparently I'm actually in the minority in holding this opinion, which surprises me. What does everyone see in Ultimatum that I am missing?
Agree on all points, except I'd place Identity second, below Supremacy and above the blue one.
12-04-09 | 09:53 AM
#29
DVD Talk Special Edition
Re: Rank the Bourne films
I guess I'm the only one who doesnt mind the shaky cam, in fact I rather enjoy how he puts you right in the middle of the fight. Very unique way to film a fight scene and a great way to show the speed at which these guys are going after each other. So yeah, I like the shaky cam. Pretty dissappointed Greengrass won't be back.
Anyway, my rankings. Got to go with the 3, 2, 1. I love all 3 films though.
Anyway, my rankings. Got to go with the 3, 2, 1. I love all 3 films though.
12-04-09 | 12:12 PM
#30
DVD Talk Legend
12-04-09 | 02:15 PM
#33
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 2,600
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: HB, CA
Re: Rank the Bourne films
Identity was the best. Supremacy was still quite enjoyable, but Ultimatum was mostly forgettable. It's been a while since I've watched any of them, however.
I think a good action movie has a strong plot that drives the action with at least some interesting character interaction. Die Hard, the better Bond films, Indy etc, are good examples of that. Identity wasn't as good as those films, but it had those characteristics.
Supremacy and Ultimatum suffered a bit from the wall to wall action syndrome where the story is just an excuse to string together a series of action sequences and the characters are little more than crash test dummies along for the ride.
I think a good action movie has a strong plot that drives the action with at least some interesting character interaction. Die Hard, the better Bond films, Indy etc, are good examples of that. Identity wasn't as good as those films, but it had those characteristics.
Supremacy and Ultimatum suffered a bit from the wall to wall action syndrome where the story is just an excuse to string together a series of action sequences and the characters are little more than crash test dummies along for the ride.
12-04-09 | 02:42 PM
#34
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Rank the Bourne films
I was actually just thinking about this the other day. My conclusion was the same as the OP. I would rank them in reverse order. I thought the third was strongest, followed by the second. I can still remember feeling slightly underwhelmed when I saw the first one, not that it wasn't a good movie. I didn't have the same reaction with the next two.
12-04-09 | 02:54 PM
#35
Banned
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 20,052
Received 169 Likes
on
127 Posts
From: Conducting miss-aisle drills and listening to their rock n roll
Re: Rank the Bourne films
First of all none of them are really great or classic. The whole trilogy is terribly overrated.
But I am of the minority opinion that #1 is the best, and is far better than parts 2 and 3. The sequels seemed very formulaic, and the formula was:
-find some reason for Bourne to make his way out into the open in a public place
-have the bad guys track him and find him
-have extended chase sequence where at the end Bourne escapes (onto public transportation, into a tunnel, down an alley, etc)
-repeat 10 times per movie
The action in the sequels is completely irrelevent to the plot. Bourne would come out into the open for contrived reasons, there would be a chase, he would elude the bad guys, and then the chase would come and go without any story being told or any plot development occuring. You could cut the chases out of the two sequels and have a 40 minute movie that made perfect sense.
But I am of the minority opinion that #1 is the best, and is far better than parts 2 and 3. The sequels seemed very formulaic, and the formula was:
-find some reason for Bourne to make his way out into the open in a public place
-have the bad guys track him and find him
-have extended chase sequence where at the end Bourne escapes (onto public transportation, into a tunnel, down an alley, etc)
-repeat 10 times per movie
The action in the sequels is completely irrelevent to the plot. Bourne would come out into the open for contrived reasons, there would be a chase, he would elude the bad guys, and then the chase would come and go without any story being told or any plot development occuring. You could cut the chases out of the two sequels and have a 40 minute movie that made perfect sense.
12-04-09 | 03:17 PM
#36
Banned by request
Re: Rank the Bourne films
Supremacy
Identity
Ultimatum
12-04-09 | 03:33 PM
#38
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Rank the Bourne films
1. Identity
2. Ultimatum
3. Supremacy
all excellent though
2. Ultimatum
3. Supremacy
all excellent though
12-04-09 | 03:47 PM
#39
DVD Talk Godfather
Re: Rank the Bourne films
I never saw any of them in theaters and watched them all on DVD, but the camera never bothered me in Supremacy and Ultimatum. Personally, Ultimatum ranks first for me too but it hinges a lot on watching it right after Supremacy so that the story is fresh.
12-04-09 | 05:43 PM
#40
Banned by request
Re: Rank the Bourne films
I rewatched Supremacy and Ultimatum as a result of this discussion and my rankings stay the same. Supremacy is the best film, then Identity, then Ultimatum. But Ultimatum is a little better than I remember. My criticisms of it still stand, but I guess I didn't mind them quite as much this go around.
12-04-09 | 06:11 PM
#41
DVD Talk Legend
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,946
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
From: 75 clicks above the Do Lung bridge...
Re: Rank the Bourne films
Some of the stuff in this thread... "Don't do anything new in a film! Give me the stereotyped routine stuff I am used to!"
All three are some of the best action movies ever made. Intelligent, well acted, just great films.
Compare any one of them to a mindlessly stupid piece of schlock like 'Die Hard'(I can hardly bear 5 minutes of that crap), or some of the Ahhnold stuff, and other films that often come up as 'good action movies' and you immediately realize how good the Bourne films are.
I guess I rank them 2, 1, 3.
Though I would sooner watch 3 than most of the 'action' crap that has been made for decades.
