I don't doubt that 30 minutes could potentially make it better. I'm just saying that the topless scene and the R-rating that comes along with it, in and of itself, would not improve the movie.

Exactly, a movie like Independence Day was a huge hit in 1996, and now it is no more then a popcorn flick these days. What made Terminator 1 & 2 great is that Cameron understood that you have to care about the characters in order to make a great movie. The action and special effects are just gravy.

I agree. And for me at least, I already care so much about John and Kyle from the first movies, that if this one doesn't delve into character development as much as them, I am not overly concerned. I mean, even though Kyle is still a kid in this one, we already know a lot about him. And this isn't the first time we've seen or heard about John Connor; we already knew a lot about him in the first film, and that was without him making an on-screen appearance. Then in movies two and three, we get to know him even better. John might be a battle-hardened soldier in this one and come off as less-than-human, but personally, I expected John's humanity to falter in the future; it has to be hard to carry the burden he has for his entire life. I think it adds another layer to his character.

This is another phenomenon that baffles me. How do film people piss and moan about theatrical attendance, yet openly declare that we won't see the REAL version of the movie until it's on DVD/Blu? In this age of economic anxiety, I can imagine lots of people deciding not to spend money to see the abridged version.

This is an adult franchise with adult language and violence, yet they have to soften it up for kids who weren't born when the first 2 movies came out? Unreal. The 22-year-olds running the studios really need a lesson in showmanship [note: even after last year's disappointing box office, they're STILL committed to releasing the next "Halloween" in August... AUGUST!!!]

It disappoints me to read all these negative early reviews but I'm still going to see it sometime this weekend probably.

After the crapfest known at Terminator 3 and the FOX TV show (yes, I know it has a cult following) I just about gave up on the franchise. I already have my tickets purchased for tomorrow night, and thanks to this thread my expectations are low. All I can ask for now is 2 hours of non-stop action, which, considering where the franchise has gone, is all I can ask for.

At the end of the day, we still have Terminator and T2, which are both fantastic films, and the ending to T2 still holds up as long as you ignore everything else that followed. I think I like that future better

R-rating or not, a Moon Bloodgood (how the hell did she get THAT name?!) topless scene would have undoubtedly benefited the film. Or any film.

Great fucking point. That's America for you

Me either, but I will still be waiting for DVD for this one.

is saying something's a "popcorn movie" code for saying its "mindless and things go boom"? Nobody ever said No Country For Old Men was a popcorn movie but the intensity of that movie had me down two and a half bags. Now I'm weary when someone calls something a "popcorn movie".

if it's too long and not expected to be a cash cow like ROTK theaters won't play it because they won't sell enough tickets to make money on it

Yeah I never understood the popcorn concept. When I go the theater I want to see shit blow up. If i want to see something normal and boring, I'll just look around

I'm seeing it tonight at midnight, when some friends get off work.

If that's all you want in a movie, then fine. Me, I like that balanced with oh, I don't know, maybe some character development and a decent story. But that's just me.

I'm not sure why people are complaining about character development. We've been with these characters for three movies already, how much more developed can John Connor be? We've 'grown up' with him.

I saw it at the midnight showing, and it definitely entertained me. I give it a solid B.

It had great action and special effects, and the appearance of had the crowd I was with pop big time. A great movie moment, especially because I had no idea it was coming.

As for the PG-13 rating, it doesn't really hurt this movie, because most of the deaths are robots anyway.

If you like the Terminator franchise, go check this out and have a good time.

= J

I saw T4 a midnight and all I really have to say is that its actually worse than Wolverine. Yes, its that bad.

It was never stated that the DVD/Blu-Ray would incorporate this footage into the film. He explained the scenes were cut for a reason but we would get to see the footage on the DVD. I see no harm in this.

like the 20 lines that ahnold had in t2? someone did the math and he was paid something like $100,000 per spoken word

it was CGI arnold

he said he didn't have time to go to a movie set and gave permission for mcg to CGI him

Besides, we already had a movie this year that was 90% kick*ss action, with little plot or character-development. It's called "Crank: High Voltage." Of course, nobody expects or cares about plot or character development in a Crank film.

I am going to see this, this afternoon! Can't wait!!

Saw it this morning, and have to agree with the folks who didn't care for it.

Seeing it at 5:15. Regardless of what people say it has to be better than the shit that T3 was...right?

Boring, predictable and extremely underdeveloped. The movie opens with a fizzle, taking a good 30 minutes to introduce us to characters in the most generic, uninteresting way possible...when we finally get to an action sequence, the movie is more interested in trying to be Transformers than it is Terminator (horrible giant machine that has motorcycles hidden in it's legs? fuck off. Snapping metallic eel like things that remind you of Transformers? Yeah, who thought that was a good idea?) The score is terrible and the action scenes have no weight to them - there are no stakes or dramatic tension, shit blows up but you don't care, you aren't thrilled.

Christian Bale is barely in the first hour of the movie and as such, John Connor is a shell of a character... there is nothing going on here. In previous movies he's a troublemaker/prick/smartass but despite his burden, there is still some levity...not here. He's flat, one dimensional and pretty much a total asshole for the whole movie. Bryce has zero to do as Kate and their big scene to make the relationship work never came.

Anton Yelchin was surprisingly good as Kyle, but again, he's more here as a function of the weak plot, rather than feeling like a character. Worthington's Marcus gets a few good moments but it takes so long to get to the inevitable that when the cool moments come, we don't care. Moon Bloodgood's character also makes a decision that isn't justified or make any sort of sense to the world they've set up... just terrible character/scripting.

The final action scene does deliver the goods and is the only redeeming part of the movie - it finally ramps up and gives us the TERMINATOR action we've been dying for...but when you've had to slog through 80 minutes of SUCK to get to it, it hardly redeems itself... not to mention the ending is pretty damn weak. Hugely disappointing and easily the worst of the series. (Terminator 3 is exponentially better IMO).

I hate to agree with Harry Knowles but his review nailed it. Fuck this movie.

Hence, my quotations.

= J

2007's Halloween was a hit, making $80 million for an R-rated horror film. It took advantage of little competition, when it most certainly would have been flattened by the ongoing Saw series in October, and made its money even against a widely-distributed bootleg and assurances of an "unrated cut" on the forthcoming DVD. It is the highest-grossing Halloween film, and it is precisely because of the fact that it was a hit that they are doing a sequel.

Please make sure your point is informed in future, before you make another ignorant statement.