gmanca

I am not sure it's that clear-cut; I think the problem was that they had two competing ideas: a script that was Marcus and Reese with a mysterious Connor and the Nolan/Bale rewrites with fewer Marcus/Reese scenes and more of Connor. I would have preferred less Connor stuff because he's a half-baked idea here.

I don't think that McG had to do the Cameron vision in this one, it makes perfect sense that they'd use what they could get with least resistance, that being human weaponry. But then you have the evolution of warfare where the machines want to keep the upper hand and decide to create new weapons.

Numanoid

I had a feeling. Though I'm sure there are those out there that would buy into your theory.

RocShemp

I like the Marcus as Connor idea but what they intended for after would have just been a huge middle finger to the audience. I'm all for bleak endings but if it were that easy to destroy the Resistance at a time when Connor was still sort of a nobody in the same, then all the time travel shennanigans were just for shits and giggles on the part of Skynet?

The Skynet Super Spa makes more sense since, although it sucks, sort of acknowledges Arnold's explanation in T2 as to why Skynet launched the nukes. Unlike it's "I'm aware and now you fucking die" attitude in T3, Skynet simply became self aware. The humans in charge freaked out and tried to "pull the plug". So Skynet was not the aggressor but instead acting in self defense.

The super spa would be its way of making ammends, silly as it may be. Of course this begs the question, why send Terminators back in time to eliminate John Connor? He won the war. The humans got to "pull the plug" on Skynet. Acting in self defense, Skynet sent Terminators to finish off the new threat to its existance: John Connor.

This alternate ending they speak of makes the Resistance about as threatening as a single mosquito.

.unholy

A lot of people have said this... and I'm thinking, "So?" Do we always have to leave the theater feeling all warm and fuzzy inside? Besides, at least it would be memorable. I'd rather feel bad for a while about a downer of an ending that have my intelligence insulted for two hours.

Giles

it wasn't a warm and fuzzy ending, it was more of an eyeroller other than the actor's playing Kyle Reese and Marcus, the whole movie was a clusterfuck. The pacing was so bad, I nodded off at least three times during the movie, only to be awakened by OTT non-memorable action scenes.

Supermallet

I like movies with twisted endings, but only if they're in the service of the story. The proposed ending for this would not have been earned.

fumanstan

It's not about feeling fuzzy. As a fan of the series, that would pretty much be a slap in the face to see the machines win in that sort of manner, or see the series hero die. To me, that's more shock value for the sake of shocking the audience then fitting the tone of the series.

That and given it's just a different ending and the rest of the movie probably wouldnt have changed, I imagine you would feel like your intelligence was insulted for 2 hours while still leaving with a downer. Of course, if your intelligence can be insulted that easily, that's another story

.unholy

Fair point.
What can I say? It's been feeling a little fragile lately...

RocShemp

As others have said, it's not about feeling warm and fuzzy. I'm cool with Connor dying and all but that ending just wouldn't have been earned. As fumanstan said, "that's more shock value for the sake of shocking the audience than fitting the tone of the series".

You invalidate the whole series with an ending like that. Now, if on the other hand all our principals die and the human resistance is left with a broken barren wasteland of a planet Earth, that's a downer ending I can live with. They won the war but what exactly did they win?

Besides, now that the whole time travel nonsense is done with (unless they go with that godawful proposed idea for the sequel), what they should focus is on the humans figuring out what Skynet's endgame really is. And I don't mean just the destruction of the human race. I mean after that. If John is supposed to be this great military leader, I'd like to see him use his skills as a tactician to use Skynet's own goals against it.

That's for more interesting than "um... then Skynet wins by one Terminator blasting three resistance members in the head" followed by a high five between the lead actor and director.

tanman

I really am not sure what to think about this movie. On one hand it was terribly over the top. I mean John survives a pole through the chest, that is subsequently ripped out by the guy who was just revived by him sticking two live wires into his exposed chest after he died by having a terminator punch him in the heart which he then donates to save John? That was absolutely absurd.

On the other hand some of the ideas in the movie were great. I really did love the references to the other movies. They were there but were still quite subtle and didn't slap the audience in the face too much. I really like how Marcus showed how to tie a rope around a gun which Kyle uses in T1. The harvester was just over the top too.

IMHO Bale didn't do a good job. I'm not sure if it was the script or not but there was just a lot over overacting.

This is the first time where I had no idea that a person was CGI. I had no idea Arnold was totally CGI'd. I really thought they de-aged him ala Patrick Stewart in X3. It totally worked.

I really wished his appearanced wasn't spoiled for me by BO Mojo. I also think they should have kept Marcus's true identity a secret instead of spoiling it in the trailers. Although based on the prologue we probably would have figured it out.

So there is a lot to like and a lot to dislike.

tanman

I don't know if I just noticed more in this movie but there are a lot of Hollywood faupaux in this flick.

Why does every "creature" sound the same. The hydrobot sounded like a lot of other little "evil"creatures. It's just something that is very weird like why would it make a screeching sound. It's a robot.

I also agree on the whole throwing around thing. Why is it that every super powerful baddie tries to kill the good guy in the most inefficient manner. Why in the world would you throw your target away from you when you could just crush them? Even the very first legless terminator throws Conner away. Uh..you don't have legs it might be a good idea to try a different approach.

Kind of like why didn't they give Arnold a gun to wait for Conner. BAM! dead

I think Sarah Conner Chronicles had the very best Terminator death scene.

Cardiff Giant11

Obviously but suddenly is Terminator subscribing to the Back To The Future rules of Time Travel? John Connor has already been born and is in the resistance. If Kyle Reese dies before going back in time, does John Connor disappear like Marty McFly? I guess I've always looked at the Terminator universe like people theorize actual time travel would be like, it would cause a parallel universe but nothing would just disappear etc. I'm probably over thinking it I suppose

at any rate, I was talking to some friends the other night who hadn't seen it and I recommended either going to a matinee or waiting for the DVD. There were some very cool things in the movie but as a whole it didn't work for me.

Shannon Nutt

Yeah, it would have felt like ALIEN 3 all over again, a movie I know a lot of people like, but which I hate, hate, hate.

Supermallet

Terminator does subscribe to the single timeline theory. Otherwise how would it help Skynet to send machines back in time to kill Sarah and John?

gmanca

I don't think it does, as some others have also mentioned; there's never been a concrete answer, but it makes sense that it would have multiple time-lines. There are many instances in the films of the future changing yet we are to believe that Kyle Reese was always John Connor's father.

This film should have answered in the affirmative in respect to why Connor want his father to go back in time, needing every universal outcome to have Connor existing in the some version of the future, regardless of how much the actions of the past changes time's course. That would "ensure" mankind's victory over Skynet.

Bandit03

Saw it this weekend and didn't think it was anything special. It was a good movie and I enjoyed it but

SuckaMC

I thought Arnold looked pretty good.

Did any body else see this detail?:

When Marcus falls off the H/K and lands in the water we see him in a top down shot at the shore as he recovers. I could swear that you can see the backs of his ankles and there are exposed endo skeleton ankles. Anybody else see that?

Solid Snake

I know nobody that likes ALIEN 3...it's a shitted on. Hell most of us here don't even consider it part of Fincher's Filmography considering the way FOX fucked him over on that one...

dugan

I hear this happened in the comics:

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/movies/terminator-faq/

DJLinus

My main head-scratcher: why did Skynet program Marcus to have an Australian accent that poked through every now and then?

It was an okay movie. I think my favorite part of the movie was the sound design. I liked the buzzes, tones, and beeps of the terminators.

Original Desmond

I really enjoyed this movie, great performances. CGI Arnie was worth the price of admission !

Action was good but not amazing. story was solid

I left the theatre feeling i got my money's worth but wasn't totally blown away

valkyrie

Yeah, I saw that too. I thought it was pretty weird that they were "giving it away" so soon, but I kept an eye out and he looked fine in later scenes. I wonder if that scene was shot to be after the secret was revealed.

JimRochester

I too found this OK to watch, but since the backstory has already been told in the first 3 films, nothing new has been added. It was an OK 2 hours with plenty of action and explosions but nothing really new or cool.

6/10

jeffkjoe

Slowly fading from theaters.

jeffkjoe

I don't think I'll be able to catch this in the theater after all