Chew

You could easily argue that the convergent point of Kirk's birth created two complete and separate realities and that both exist at the same time.

It's been well established that alternate realities already exist in the Trek universe: the Mirror-verse, "Firstborn", "All Good Things", and especially "Parallels".

So, I wouldn't say anything has been "pissed" away. The timeline still exists. Given the fact the old universe was pretty "worn out" though, I wouldn't expect anything more than novels and comic books in that reality anytime soon.

lordwow

It already is.

Chew

Something I read this morning: it may be the highest grossing Trek film, but:

(boxofficemojo.com)

MBoyd

Yeah I saw adjusted for inflation numbers on The Motion Picture and it was like 260 million. That's pretty damn mainstream! (I was there opening day ) I think Trek IV was around 210 million adjusted.

riley_dude

A girl from work, who has never been a fan of Trek, came in this morning and couldn't stop raving about the movie. So another Non fan who loves the movie.
Word of mouth...

Giantrobo

Being a huge fan of Multiverses from reading Comic books, that's the way I understood it when I first saw this film. There is still the Star Trek universe that all the Old School fans know and love and this is where Spock Prime and Nero came from by going through the Black Hole. But then I read this thread and it seems it's just the Time line that's been changed.

Maybe I got it all wrong...

Giantrobo

That's awesome RD. I have a "movie buddy" who immediately proclaimed her lack of interest in seeing a Star Trek film a couple days before opening. I'm thinking of dragging her to see it anyway because I think she'll enjoy it.

mikehunt

is it adjusted for ticket price increases though?

MBoyd

Oh I think It will beat what I posted earlier. Maybe a 275 Mil take . . .

RocShemp

Maybe, um, not all of them died. Maybe there were a few survivors.

Yeah, like that.

MBoyd

WOW!

He's been around so long??!!!?!

lordwow

Bob Orci has been answering a ton of questions on TrekMovie.com posed by the fans. A lot are questioning black hole physics, none of which I'm particulary interested in, but a few interesting points:

- The "lightning storm" that occurred before the Klingon fleet was destroyed is according to Orci from the Jellyfish arriving near Rura Penthe:
- On why Prime was in the cave and not going to the starfleet base:

- The Klingon capture and imprisonment is "not canon" because according to Orci Trek canon is only what's shown on screen.

- Countdown Comic was created after movie had wrapped, is definitely not canon. The writers didn't consider the ship to have Borg technology.

Giantrobo

General Zod

Interesting observation! I don't even think he was credited in Return of the Jedi but he was in there. He was also in Dr. Who to complete the tri-fecta!

lordwow

More from Trekmovie

Bob Orci's answers:

- Why wasn't Kirk born in Iowa?

- Was Archer Jonathan Archer and the Beagle Porthos? Yes he states Veterinary science has advanced very far.

- Why does Spock kneel before beaming to Vulcan?
- Question:
Orci's Answer:
He also states this will seriously affect the relationship of the Federation and Romulans, but doesn't elaborate.

RocShemp

I'm all for the latter half of this statement (especially since the comic doesn't jive with the explanation Spock gave Kirk) but I have issues with the former half.

I hope the "Klingon capture and imprisonment" is included in an extended cut of the movie (it was mentioned earlier that said footage was shot and completed) since it helps explain what the hell Nero and the other Romulan miners were doing for the passed 25 years. I just don't buy that they sat around for a quarter of a century waiting for Ambassador Spock and not once thought to obliterate Starfleet and Vulcan while ensuring Romulan dominion. I get they're in mourning but no one can possibly mourn so much that such an idea didn't cross their mind during the span of 25 years.

Also, I'm guessing Eric Bana's "I've been waiting for this all my life... this day of reckoning" line would probably be found among said footage. I don't recall it anywhere in the film proper.

gmanca

Yeah, I also agree with that sentiment RocShemp; you figure the Klingons have to be introduced at some point and seeing as how 47 warbirds were destroyed, I don't think you can avoid some crossover of the story into the next film. So having some tension between Romulans and Klingons over Nero's actions would make for a better story if Nero was imprisoned for some time.

JasonF

I just got back from the movie and I gave it 3 stars out of five (which is apparently a low score for this movie). Here's what I liked:

- I thought it did a pretty good job of capturing the spirit of the original series.
- As an action movie, it was very solid. The set pieces were well-done and the villain's motives within the realm of plausibility (if only barely).
- I liked that while Kirk and Spock were the focus of the film, they rest of the cast were given their chance to shine, too.
- The characters mostly felt like the Star Trek characters I know and love.

Here's what I didn't like:
- Muppet Baby Syndrome. In the Muppet Movie, we saw the muppets all meeting each other on their way out to Hollywood. Years later, some marketing genius decided that the muppets were all friends as toddlers. That always pissed me off. The same thing here. Starfleet is a military force. The crew of the Enterprise are all professional military officers. They've presumably had long and varied careers leading up to the point where Kirk has worked his way up to captain and Chekov is a new ensign and everyone else is in between and they all get posted to the Enterprise. There's no reason they should all be bestest buddies right out of (or headed into, in the case of Kirk and McCoy) the Academy, let alone peers (throw-away line about Chekov being a few years younger than everyone else notwithstanding).
- Relatedly, the logic of putting these wet-behind-the-ears cadets in charge of everything made no sense. The entire fleet is out of range of vulcan, but we have six empty ships just waiting around to be filled with new crews? And when Captain Pike is side-lined, his best candidate for a first officer is a cadet who shouldn't have been on the ship in the first place because of disciplinary problems? When the ship's doctor dies, the next-highest ranked doctor is a guy straight from Starfleet Academy? None of that makes any sense.
- Spock marooning Kirk made no sense. What, the Enterprise doesn't have a brig? More importantly, it was such an asshole move -- Kirk almost died, and would have died has future-Spock not saved him -- that it made me dislike Spock. This was the one place where I thought that not only did they not capture the spirit of Star Trek, they pissed all over it. I'm willing to accept Kirk and Spock not liking each other (at least at first). I am not willing to accept Kirk or Spock putting the other's life in mortal danger for no other reason than because they are being pissy.
- I'm willing to accept my share of Treknobabble -- I have no idea what red matter is or why it could make black holes, but I accept that it does. That said, the backstory here made no sense. Romulus's sun was going nova and this came as a surprise to everyone? Dropping a black hole in the middle of the sun was supposed to help? And after the sun went nova and destroyed Romulus, Spock thought that using the red matter would fix things? None of that made sense.
- The opening scene was superfluous. Why can't Jim Kirk just be heroic without some convuluted backstory where his father got killed by the same enemy he has to defeat twenty-five years later. Similarly, the scene with the vintage car was utterly pointless.

So, on the whole a deeply flawed movie, but one whose flaws I'm willing to somewhat overlook because, despite the flaws, they did a pretty good job of capturing the spirit of Star Trek.

Numanoid

Why do people keep saying this? The scene had a very obvious point. It was to establish that Kirk was a misguided youth, rebellious, with no respect for authority. It completely sets up his "redemption".

I loved how the very last shot of Kirk has him in the Captain's chair sitting calmly with his legs crossed. Very Shatner. Also, not exactly "masculine". And certainly not rebellious. That one subtle shot establishes that Kirk has come into his own, has put away childish things, and is ready to lead with the balance of badassness and sensitivity that we've come to expect from the character.

fumanstan

I don't know, I thought Kirk in the bar did a good enough job showing that. Not to mention the kid's delivery of his name was terrible.

JasonF

YES! I forgot to mention this in my post, but this annoyed the hell out of me.

grrr

I would say this because the scene was silly and redundant. We already have a restless young barfly Kirk in the following scene, and dedicating five minutes to hawking Nokia products while giving screen time to an awful child actor spouting awful dialogue set to the single most overused pop hit of the 1990s was a waste of time and audience goodwill.

JasonF

I liked the fact that they made the allusion, but not the fact that the allusion took the form of Scotty killing Porthos.

milo bloom

McCoy was already a working physician, after the divorce he was running away and only had to do 3 years at the academy for Officer's School. Learning things like xeno-biology and starship trauma triage, which made him able to take over when the original doctor died. This is apparently based on real-life military procedure too.

Making Kirk first officer was a bit of a stretch, but Pike was fully aware of Kirk's intelligence before entering the academy and I'm sure he kept track of his accomplishments in his classes. He left Spock in charge, but he made Kirk the 1st officer to keep Spock on his toes.

It seems a little odd thinking about the Spock we've known for all these years, but if you go back to his appearance in Where No Man Has Gone Before, he's the first to recommend spacing Gary Mitchell when he goes all silver-eyed. He can be hardcore logical when the chips are down, and in the movie Spock knew Kirk was a wildcard. Plus the escape pod did say to wait and a ship would pick him up, Kirk set off on his own.


It was kinda the point of his journey, old Spock even tells him that his father lives to see him take command of the Enterprise in his timeline, so his father was an inspiration. The new movie actually kinds turns the idea of the heroic death on it's head, by having George Kirk save all the Kelvin crew, but not inspiring his son to go into Starfleet. When we meet him, he's smart and gifted, but aimless (the car scene is part of this, he's able to handle the car, but his idea of a good time is to dump it in a quarry. In deleted scenes, it's supposedly implied that it was his father's car, and his uncle or stepdad were going to sell it, so little Jimmy decided to give it a warrior's death).

.

Actually, the movie doesn't say he's outright dead. Scotty says something along the lines of "we'll find out whenever he materializes". So he's out there somewhere. Maybe a couple movies down the line, he'll materialize right in the middle of a situation and save the day.

RocShemp

Spock marooned Kirk because he knew Kirk would escape any detention facility the Enterprise had on hand. Also, the escape pod's computer told Kirk he was awaiting pickup from another Starfleet vessel and to stay inside the pod for his own safety. Kirk said something along the lines of "screw that" and set off on his own.

In short, Kirk put his own life in jeapordy. Not Spock.