Hokeyboy

Introduce the "formula" elements ORGANICALLY; don't force them in because people expect them, otherwise you end up with a movie that's a JARRING change of pace from the first 2.

The way I see it, I'd like to see it introduced that, because of Bond's successful foiling of Quantum's plans in QoS, they have a DYNAMIC budget increase across-the-board, i.e. the organization begins to morph into the MI-6 we know and love from the classic Bond films. And as such, perhaps incorporating Q into the plot somehow... would make sense. Maybe presenting as a Quantum defector or something, or maybe Quantum needs this mad genius inventor/gadgeteer as part of their NEXT plan, but Bond has to get to him first, and Q ends up retrofitting some of Bond's equipment to help him out, and by the end of the movie he's firmly entrenched as Quartermaster for the Double-O branch.

As for Moneypenny... there's a billion ways you could introduce her by incorporating her into the storyline. Or you could just drop her in as M's new secretary who Bond had a weekend boning session with a few years prior (that's pretty much how Connery, Moore, and Maxwell played out their relationship).

The formula became stale and repetitive for a REASON: the filmmakers relied on thin cliches over and over and OVER again. There's nothing WRONG with it, though, if used effectively and creatively.

Though I wonder if it would be interesting to resist casting Q as a sarcastic, irascible older man, and instead have him be maybe just a little bit older than Bond, an geeky/techie (but snarky) contrast to Bond's cool, collected brawn... although let's face it, Desmond Llewellyn's Q is just about as iconic as any James Bond actor ever was. Tough shoes to fill, even for John Cleese (who played the 'R' part admirably, IMO).

Supermallet

I agree with all of this, including making Q a younger fellow who might be cheering Bond on, while still lamenting the loss of his toys (the last bit being my own addition).

FRwL

-No more bond girl equals/tagalongs, for the love of fuck.
-No Bond going renegade, disobeying anymore. When i want that i'll watch Bourne, when i want the classic civil servant i'll watch Bond.
-Q and Moneypenny like everyone agrees here.
-Less of M. Don't need to see her every other scene, just give the damn mission in the office and out he goes like old times, that's how it was best.
-No more "this is personal" storylines.
-Villains need to be more creative not just all dark and moody, so far they look like rejects from the Addams Family.

devilshalo

I don't see what kind of gadgets you people want. The thing is that back in the 60s and 70s, they could dream up some fantastic futuristic shit for him to use and we were like.. that's fucking cool. Well, it's 2008. Most of those things that were fantastic and futuristic are around and almost normal everyday shit. Video iPods, video watches, video phones. Do you really want Bond with the missle pen? The rocket pack? The car that can be a plane? Those things aren't technological advances anymore, those are comical when presented in today's world.

wm lopez

And better artists doing the songs. Maybe need to go back to some artists from before 1990. Sade, Whitney Houston, Prince or whoever can do sexy music.
Bond music is supposed to be sexy and dangerous.

Supermallet

Yes, let's bring back a-ha to do the Bond theme. Personally, I quite liked "You Know My Name" from Casino Royale.

Hokeyboy

I'm not allowed to badtalk a-ha anymore, or my wife will cut me off.

I also did really enjoy "You Know My Name" and, to a much lesser extent, "Another Way To Die". The key to a great Bond song is to balance catchiness with a sort of dark, playful intrigue. I suppose "Goldfinger" set the mold for that (although I prefer "You Only Live Twice" for its exotic, seductive vibe). The most memorable Bond themes carry that through, songs like "Live and Let Die", "For Your Eyes Only", "A View To A Kill", "Goldeneye", even "Tomorrow Never Dies" (which I think is a grossly underrated Bond song, although it is overshadowed by kd lang's contribution). "Nobody Does It Better" is a fucking GREAT song, it's the perfect 70s Bond Theme (for the perfect 70s Bond Movie).

Bad Bond songs are either big, lame, and stupid ("Thunderball", "The Man With The Golden Gun", "Die Another Day"), lifeless and dreary ("The World Is Not Enough", "The Living Daylights"), or just bland and unmemorable ("All Time High", "License To Kill").

Shirley Bassey gets a pass for both "Moonraker" and "Diamonds are Forever". While neither is a great song, she just sells them on her voice alone.

fumanstan

So... for me, I've never really watched any of the Bond movies until watching Casino Royale and enjoying the hell out of it (blind buy on Blu-ray) and now Quantum of Solace (which wasn't as good, but still solid). The only thing I know about Bond are the trademarks due to all the references and spoofs in pop culture over the last few decades (i'm 26, and for some reason never even bothered watching the Brosnan ones in their entirety).

Since I enjoyed the recent movies, I went ahead and bought the 6 older Bonds on Blu-ray and watched Dr. No over the weekend. I know it's the first movie and back in the 60's, and it didn't really have any fancy gadgets and weapons either. I guess I'll need to watch more (got From Russia With Love and Thunderball today) but I suppose since I haven't been exposed to all the aspects that people are complaining about, I guess I don't have that problem with Quantum. I kind of like the continuing storyline and character development in Casino/Quantum though.

Hokeyboy

You're watching From Russia With Love for the first time?


GOD how I envy you Best Bond ever!!

fumanstan

I'm actually really looking forward to it since I hear such good things about it. I'm genuinely excited to watch these, and I was happy that Dr. No wasn't a let down for me.

Hokeyboy

FRWL is a classic movie and a classic Bond movie... it's more about espionage and intrigue than gadgets, gizmos, iconic supervillains, and it's more the better for it because the story doesn't call for it (that's not to say there are NO gadgets, but they're decidely low-tech in comparison with the fancier ones to come). The Daniel Craig films -- especially Royale -- are probably closest in tone and feeling to FRWL and On Her Majesty's Secret Service.

And Colonel Rosa Klebb is so freakin' HAWT!!!!

gmanca

I mostly agree with you Matt, but no way is "Tomorrow Never Dies" deserving of anything but awfulness. Sheryl Crow's voice was howling most of the time. I think The World Is Not Enough happens to be the best of the Brosnan songs, although that's not saying much because they were pretty drab.

For me, "Diamonds are Forever" is the quintessential Bond flick because it has everything in it: space weapons, a supervillain, car chases, foreign locales and intrigue, gadgets, gambling, hot women, Bond the Spy leading the Calvary as opposed to just him being the victor, and the "second ending" with the leftover bad-guys.

Hokeyboy

You know... "Diamonds Are Forever" kinda gets a bad rap. It's not a perfect film -- it's entirely too jokey (especially for a Connery film), Jill St. John is absolutely terrible, the moon buggy sequence is dopey, and it feels much more like a Moore vehicle even before Moore ever took over the role -- but it has a good plot and Bond actually does some serious investigation/espionage work using his charm, intellect, and physical prowess. I suppose it was a reaction to the relative failure of OHMSS, and its serious-minded, more grounded approach to the character.

People tend to rate it among the Top 5 Worst Bonds, but I think it's still good fun.

devilshalo

Blofeld. In. Drag.

Hokeyboy

TEH HAWT!!!! Charles Gray, he's OK, he's got no fucking neck, HUH!

metaridley

In all seriousness I see no reason not to invite Shirley Bassey back for a fourth performance. Even at 71 her voice is nearly unrivaled. And what could be more appropriate than having her belt out the theme for the "fully formed" (or close to it) 007 in the next movie?

Giles

pish posh - I can at least whistle the theme of an 'All Time High'

GoldenJCJ

Oh man, I am so smart. Did I just figure out your screen name?

fumanstan

I never noticed that either

Giantrobo

Oh puh-leez. By your thinking we'd need a new Bond for every film because all the shooting and crazy stunts would no doubt kill him in each one. No one is saying there can't be some "fantasy" involved with the gadgets. We...the not all that crazy about Bond Gadgets returning crowd... are just saying we don't need them to be over the top or goofy.

Some of you are so stuck on the Bourne Films. As I said before, I think the reason for this, like it or not, is that the Bourne series raised the bar for the genre. The Bourne series compared to the Bond films over the last few years makes the Bond films come off as clownish and silly.

Look I feel for you Hardcore Bond fans...I realize you only want Bond films to follow a formula and nothing else will do. So I can sympathize...

Solid Snake

based on what FRwL said...what do guys think of these non damsel in distress Bond gals? Personally I can't stand the stereotype of the damsel in distress Bond Girl...it was cool to see Yeoh better the Bond character in taking care of herself.

I was fine with Vesper in Royale...she had more story and a bit of depth to justify that she wasn't going to be able to defend herself..she's an accountant and she was played realistically as to how a person not involved in Bond's world would. Intrigue, Fear, and Nervousness to be involved in Bond's world. Unfortunately, I barely remember much of Quantum due to being so tired and also watching it at the midnight showing. From what I can remember though, she was a person with an agenda...much like Bond but with no affiliation to a gov't agency. She was fairly generic especially when with all the great characters we had in Casino Royale. And to be compared with Bond as a gal who can pull her weight with Bond she was still weak and simple. I was content with Agent (Strawberry) Fields, she wasn't a field agent she was just meant to bring Bond in...so she was fine as a character, sadly she won't be seen again.

PopcornTreeCt

I think non-damsel in distress Bond girl is a stereotype now. I'd like it to go back to the old ways including seeing Daniel Craig light one up. But we won't ever see that.

Let's not give the Bourne movies all the credit here. They may have raised a bar, but Casino Royale is better than all of them. As are a few action movies accused of imitating their style.

metaridley

Maybe I'm misinterpreting this statement but I'm a little insulted by your suggestion that I'm too stuck on the "formula" to appreciate any deviation from it (see: my high praise of Casino Royale). No one though wants a return to The World Is Not Enough or Die Another Day.

I can't speak for anyone else but I'd like there to be a balance. Bond's origins are established. Why act like every single one of the first 20 films are pieces of shit? Albert Broccoli must've been doing something right if the franchise lasted over 40 years. He gave the people what they wanted. Yeah, some of the movies are terrible, some are mediocre, some are good, some are classics. That's not a bad track record.

Anyway, I'm certainly not saying your taste(s) or opinion aren't valid. I agree with you to some degree. If there hadn't been an "edge" to Quantum of Solace, it would've been one of the very worst. And Daniel Craig is such a badass. I'm being very earnest when I ask, what would you like to see from the franchise in the future?

metaridley

When the "equal to Bond" type is done right, it results in some of the very best girls, like Barbara Bach and Michelle Yeoh. I'm not sure I'd like to see a "damsel in distress" either. Maybe a mix of both, like Pussy Galore?

Giantrobo

No you're not misinterpreting the statement. There's some "old fashioned glove slap" in it. But seriously, it wasn't directed towards you personally.



Sure but that's the past. you can always get that on DVD and VHS. Like it or not, the Bond franchise has been rebooted. Some may not agree with the lack of gadgets and silly helpless Bond Cumdumpsters but but there are many of us who find this lacking to be a refreshing change.

That said, I wouldn't mind if they reintroduced some of these elements if for no other reason than to keep from losing Old School fans of the franchise. So I guess I can be flexible and I do agree that "balance" is the key.



What would I like to see?

That's a tough one because I'm liking what I see so far with the reboot. I get that many have issues with how the Bond franchise has been stripped down but I like it. I'm enjoying the character's growth so I anxiously look forward to where this is going. Again, while I don't like the idea of gadgets I can roll with them being reintroduced in a way that's not goofy or over the top. I don't want to see Sharks with lasers on their heads or Fembots with gun bras.

I wouldn't mind seeing a balance between Damsel in distress and Uber Chick who can handle their own. I actually like the idea that a woman can hold her own, but I get that many want their Bond Girls helpless, horny, and needy. So for the sake of the franchise I'm willing to accept a weaker Bond Girl from time to time.

I like Quantum as the Big Bad Organization so I'm hoping they'll continue to be in the series. I'm sure they'll be featured prominently in some films, and in the background in others and I'm good with that.

I like the darker tone of the new films but again, for the sake of the franchise keeping fans happy, I'm willing to roll with lighter films from time to time.