Yes, and I'm the one arguing it. You have your opinion and that's great, but it doesn't change the fact that Williams is unoriginal and uninspired. If you think that's what it takes to be the best, more power to you. I'll stick with composers who can actually create their own original music and who don't feel the need to beat me over the head with the prevailing emotion of the scene in question.

Oh, and your one sentences rebuttal don't bolster your arguments much.

Fixed.

Williams has created some great scores, mostly his more subtle work, like Close Encounters, Schindler's List and Saving Private Ryan. It's usually when he gets bombastic that he runs into trouble (such as the painful Jurassic Park).

I don't think a great movie composer necessarily has to be "original." I'm not saying those other composers you mentioned aren't great, but they just don't do it for me the way Williams does. I like memorable stuff.

I always thought that the opposite was true. When he does big, loud, escapist films like JURASSIC PARK, STAR WARS, SUPERMAN and so forth that he's at his most enjoyable. In fact, when he creates subtle work for big loud films (the Love Theme and Smallville theme in SUPERMAN, Short Round's theme in INDIANA JONES AND THE TEMPLE OF DOOM, and so forth), he really shows his talent.

But when called upon to do a serious film like SCHINDLER'S LIST or SAVING PRIVATE RYAN, the stuff is just overwrought. On the other hand, it could be just Spielberg's dierction and influence.

I recently saw Henry Thomas, ("Elliott), in the new Stephen King film "Desperation". Man, age has not been kind to him. I think he was OK in the '90s films he did (he went mostly unnoticed), but still..... I thought he would at least grow up to be better looking than he turned out. That was a shocker.

Another child star from the era who has aged amazingly poorly is Barret Oliver ("The Neverending Story", "D.A.R.Y.L") who is now overweight, has a long beard, and is a private photographer and sculptor.

How time flies.....

Oh, and "E.T" is overrated, but I think that the alien in it reminds me of "Baby" ( a horrendous 80s film about a baby dinosaur that has to be seen to be believed). Has anyone seen that movie?

So I'm not understanding the whole overrated thing. Is it because it's one of the most successful films of all time?

That, and because back in 1982 it received nearly universal praise from audiences and movie reviewers. (If the internet was around back then, there would be more strident disapproval and negativity from overzealous movie fans.) At least on television, I recall seeing very, very few critical remarks.

I loved it as a kid, but as I grew older, I became more aware of the emotional manipulation and that it wasn't nearly as timeless as I thought it would be.

While I will concede that "uninspired" is my (informed) opinion, "unoriginal" really isn't a matter of opinion in this case.

As for E.T., I think it's got the worst of all of Spielberg's tendencies. He doesn't understand children, but thinks he does, and makes movies about "the magical inner life of kids" that rings hollow. Actually, Hook is a better examination of that magical inner life than E.T. is.

The only good thing to come of E.T. is the episode of Robot Chicken where E.T. returns to his home planet, and we discover that he's actually the local idiot, which is why they left him stranded on Earth in the first place.

Highly doubtful. The renowned internet negativity is a byproduct of the times not the tool.

link?

To me E.T. will always be the movie that caused Blade Runner to flop in 1982.

That is true. But the internet makes it easier to express negativity without having to be held accountable for any inflammatory expressions. I think people rarely express positive opinions because they don't generate controversy or reaction from fellow users.

Actually, yes it is.

Emotional manipulation? Nothing in the movie rings false to me.

Oh c'mon, you can't be serious. If there is any movie from Spielberg about children that is manipulative, Hook would be it.

Has Spielberg ever shot so much as a scene that wasn't dripping with attempted emotional manipulation?

Definitely. What's the "emotional manipulation" in E.T.?

I'm also curious about this. I know people hate Spielberg, but why does he get called out for being manipulative more than other directors trying to achieve the same emotion in their movies?

As someone who is reading thru this thread for the first time, I have to say that you're coming off a bit dictatorial and intolerant. Little bit, little bit...

More to the point, you mentioned that ET's score was basically Beethoven's 5th symphony. I'm fairly familiar with this work, (although I prefer his 9th or 6th), and maybe I haven't watched ET in a while, but I'm playing them in my head and I'm not really getting your point.

I would be very interested in some comparisons- some side-by-side examples of which parts of these two works compare. Is there possibly a site or something?

Exactly.

Is it because Spielberg is good at it? What is Quentin Tarantino trying to do if not manipulate the audience. How about David Lynch? I loved Twin Peaks, but most of his other films (That I HAVE seen) seem to be weird just for the sake of being weird - MANIPULATING the audience into feeling uneasy by throwing those strange images at them.

All film is manipulative, that's the nature of the beast, but some do it more so than others. Spielberg's manipulation tends to very obvious, he'll use warm or cool colors for the exact those emotions, the music does tend to be right on the nose, and he always uses children and animals to gain extra emotion. It's not something I have a problem with, for the most part, but I understand why others do.

Lynch is never actually weird for weird sakes, that's just how he thinks. He sees it in his head and tries to replicate it on screen. He goes strictly for the feel of it. I think Spielberg puts a lot of thought into his emotion.

I didn't see any real thinking involved in Lost Highway.

Talk about weak. If that's all anyone's going on, I think people are just "reaching."

And this isn't the first thread I've seen where appreciation for John Williams suddenly sparks insinuations that those people have no taste in music either. 50 years from now, Spielberg and Williams are going to be remembered as fondly as all the other accomplished directors & musicians people keep throwing out here as examples of people that are "better." You would think Spielberg will one day be regarded on the same level as Brett Ratner if you believed everything you read on the internet. It all strikes me as completely ridiculous because I know that is never going to happen.