Supermallet

Okay, one more time, without a single mention of the comics:

In the first two films, Scott is set up as at least a nominal leader of the X-Men, although Xavier obviously has the final say. In this one, not only does Xavier drop him, the whole film does. I agree he got short shrift in the first two, but this one took it about two steps further.

Rogue: Always conflicted, but at the end of the day, the films always had the characters see the value in her as she is, not as she is without power. And she seemed to see that value in herself. Here, the first thing she does is run off to ditch her powers.

Storm: They set her up for logical character development at the beginning by making her the next in line to take over the X-Men, but then robbed her even of that by undercutting her completely. She did no leading of anyone other than leading Angel to his bedroom.

Wolverine: In the first two films, I repeat, in the first two films, Wolverine is a dangerous loner who is impetuous and off-kilter. While he clearly cares enough to stick around the mansion, he is more than willing to go off on his own if he wants to. Even at the beginning of this film he's doing his own thing, not wanting to teach the kids. Then, out of the blue, BAM, he's leading the X-Men. Suddenly, he's not just responsible for the kids, but for the entire human race. Bull shit. Bullshit. This is a total 180 degree turn from Wolverine's character as he is IN THE FILMS.

Jean: Clearly Phoenix was meant to be drastically different. It would have been nice to see a little more of the regular Jean fighting against Phoenix.

Xavier: First, he dumps Scott offhand. I think he of all people would have been able to counsel him. Second, he does a ton of morally ambiguous stuff that he never would have done in the first two films. The blocks in Jean's mind he never would have done without her consent. Also, when Wolverine calls him on it, he basically tells him to fuck off. This isn't consistent writing, it's not even good writing.

Pyro: Goes from a conflicted youth unsure about his place in the world to a slogan-spewing generic henchman.

Magneto/Mystique: I do agree that there were no huge changes in these two, but I never claimed every single character was a drastic change. But the changes in Wolverine by himself was enough to turn me off, and he wasn't the only one who got changed. Heck, I think the first half of this film was written by a different writer from the second half, because there's stuff set up in the first half that is undermined by the events in the second half. Even if you didn't think the first two films were great, it's hard to argue that the character changes in this film is a huge change from where they were going in the first two (except for Magneto and Mystique, of course).

BuddyRevell

I totally agree and I still liked the movie. What's wrong with me???

SteelgearX

Nothing. You can like this movie for what it is and still know that's it's not as good as the first two. What I don't get are the people that keep saying the first two weren't that good, but this one is great. What makes you watch the final film in a trilogy you didn't like in the first place?

Kudama

Wow. I finally got to the end of this thread. Pheewww.

I gotta say that a lot of good points are made by both sides of the debate. I can see that this was probably not as stellar as it could have been and the back story between Singer and Fox …well it sucks that that happened.

It seems like a lot of the points made about the character changes might be argued as character growth, but just in a direction that people didn’t like. Didn’t Xavier make a point that he considered it unethical to do what he ended up doing? How bitchin’ is that that he turned tail and did it to save his own life? Wolvie developing a community spirit under pressure…oh no! And this thing about Rogue. Her power was a CURSE!!! in these films. She wasn’t the Rogue that was cool with hurting and killing people. She couldn’t touch anybody. Anybody, same gender or not, so I don’t see the homosexual/mutant allegory being betrayed by her character’s decision at all (as has been alluded). Who out there would not jump at the chance to actually, fucking finally touch someone. Being puzzled at this part of the movie baffles the shit out of me.

Recognizing all the valid flaws that have been raised, I somehow still loved this movie. Maybe it was just the way Phoenix looked. Much cooler than if they went for the fiery bird. Sort of like how Wolverine might have looked goofy in yellow spandex. This worked for the medium. And I’m not kidding. I would date a chick that looked like that. She was Ursa style gorgeous. (I just think of the spider veins as extreme freckles and who doesn’t like freckles?)

I am kinda disappointed that Magneto could still move metal. It was a much stronger scene when I mistakenly thought he was merely toppling the chess piece.

Superboy

I agree with this. I was watching the first half which felt like it was mostly Brian Singer's ideas, and the second half felt like it was written by a group of people who had nothing much more than cool ideas they wanted to put in the movie - the last act lacks any real coherent storytelling.

Although your comments regarding the X-men acting like assholes for no reason is pretty close to the comics...

Terrell

Um, that is your opinion. That does not make it fact. That statement still comes off as telling someone how they must feel.

I've argued that the first two films aren't nearly as great as people claim they are. They're just good, fun films. X2 is also is a good, fun film. I place it between X1 and X2. But I've never argued it's a great film.

Nesbit

Actually it is a fact. The opinion would be if they said, "I like this movie but still know that it isn't as good as the first two." The person was just stating that it is possible to enjoy the lesser of three films while recognizing it's flaws.

Jamers

Did anyone notice that Rogue's stripe in her hair was white in X1, blond in X2 and white again in X3. And how come Jean Gray's hair grew about 6 inches when she awoke from the lake? It was shoulder length in X2. Don't even get me started on Storm, 3 completely different hair styles in three movies. All of which seem to take place within about 6 months time. Come on, where's the consistency?

Rogue588

Not comparing the two, but they've been having Xavier do a LOT of morally ambiguous stuff in the comics. Hell, it was recently uncovered that he covered up the existence of the third Summers brother and used his telepathy to tutor a team on the use of their powers (cramming a couple months into a couple of hours) and sent them to their deaths to rescue the X-Men.

As much as I loathe Halle, I would not mind this at all.

cerial442

Because in a film as rushed as this one was, you don't have time to check for consistency.

Terrell

Telling someone that X3 is not as good as the first two isn't a fact. It's a opinion. We all know what they say about those.

Kerborus

Ok here's my take:

'Longtime Reader of X-men comic books' -

This movie blew. The script was weak, the characters were not true to the source, the action was hokey and the dialogue abyssmal. I really expected more, closer to what I am used to from the comic books as these characters and plots have been well developed over a long time.

'Ignorant of comic books Joe 6-pack' -

Wow Coo-ahl! Did you see the bridge move? That is the STUFF of X-men! Bridges moving! Did you see when Juggernaut called Kitty a bitch and she called him a dickhead?!?!? I EXPLODED! Who needs a plot when you have ACTION! Meaningless action and explosions everywhere, hell yeah! Did it make sense? Did it have to? Did I mention that bridge? X-men BABY! Woo-ah!

'Me' -

I have read the comics and was happy with the changes made for the most part, but honestly, they crapped on the source material and the dialogue was really really bad. They really tried to stuff way too much in - fastball special, Collusus, Phoenix, Mageneto, danger room, etc. etc. Felt way too rushed and chewed up a lot of crap that didn't need to be in the movie. Things like the fact that Collosus is RUSSIAN in the last film and not in this one are annoying. It's also stupid that he can extend his metal over other people. Sentinels were handled really really poorly. On and on this was not a good movie. Was I entertained? Absolutely. This doesn't make the movie good though... I think that the non-comic fans should be more respectful of the comic book fans opinions. It would be like taking Gone with the Wind and making Scarlett meek and making Rhett tote machine guns. They really should appease the fans and I guarantee this would make the joe 6 pack fans happy too.

Ketamine

At least on this issue, he touched Rogue and she absorbed his power and that is why his metal extended over her.

Not sure how you can say that you were entertained but didn't like the movie. Sounds like the fanboy in you didn't like the changes and that is your major complaint. I also wish is would have been more consistent with the source material but I enjoyed it anyway so will not let the differences from the comic bring me down.

mikehunt

as evidenced by him standing up and being a bit dizzy looking

I thought that scene was cool

SteelgearX

As I said before, you can somewhat enjoy something and still think it wasn't all that great. Honestly, had this been the first X-men movie people might've been going gaa-gaa over it, but it's not. Singer made two previous movies which for many people here (and my wife (who never read comics)) were far superior to X3.

clemente

Nice to come into the thread and see some of the hostility gone and replaced with calm discussion.

But back on topic, I don't think we're saying that X1 and X2 were bad, just that like this movie they were not perfect, they had issues too. A lot of the knocks against this movie compare it to the perfection of X2, but that comparison feels hollow because some of us don't think X2 was perfect.

Doesn't mean we didn't really like X2 (cause I do), just that we recognize that it has some flaws. Just like we like X3, it has flaws, but we still enjoy it.

Ketamine

My specific question was though can you really say you thought the movie was bad and yet say you were entertained? Those 2 things don't seem to go together IMHO. Once you get into the "entertained" category, I think you are at least in the "I thought the movie was good" range.

I think there is a huge difference from "somewhat enjoyed" and "Was I entertained? Absolutely."

deadpool24

at the very end of the movie, was that professor x's body or someone else?

Ketamine

Someone else. Prof X was talking to class when they showed him the first time.

FiveO

Maybe thats what the Professor had planned all along.

Kerborus

Well, here's an example: I thought King Kong was the dumbest most low-brow movie I have ever seen, full of ridiculous plot, meaningless scenes, too long, too dumb, bad acting, bad CGI (dinosaur pile-up), etc etc. - AND I HAVE NEVER LAUGHED HARDER IN MY LIFE. I really enjoyed it, but it was a horrible, horrible movie.

I though X3 was a very bad effort, but still the geek in me loved seeing specific scenes - Ice Man icing up, big battle, Mystiques, etc. Thanks for explaining Collosus' powers transferring to Rogue. Doesn't expalin his american accent though...

musick

please tell me what he says in Russian in X2 or what Russian things he does in X2 that makes him more Russian in X2 than X3

you might have a different cut of the dvd than I do or saw a different version....I'd be interested in knowing the specifics....please do tell

musick

being that Cyke was given that short shrift in the first two and word that his participation would be nominal in this one what better way to use him than to have him resurect his love and a moment later have her show her true evil powers by 'killing' the man she loves

I stand by my statement that she has always wanted to rid herself of her 'powers' in order to be close to the one she loves. The first thing she does is expresses her thoughts about this again to Bobby and only when the cure is later revealed she makes the decision to be 'cured' (not as quick to jump in as you conclude)

this character has always been poorly writen but if anything this movie actually gave her a bit more to work with....the only other sceen she had up till this movie worth anything was the one in X2 with Nightcrawler

he's not as dangerous, off-kilter, or a loner as you might believe if you rewatch the first two.... "I'll stick with them".... sitting around having a campside chat with Magneto in X2 instead of trying to off him.... hanging out at Bobby Drake's house with the kids....sorry if you expected him to just say screw you guys I've had enough of this crap I'm going home, see you in the darker solo movie

yes more of the inner struggle between Phoenix and Dark Phoenix would have been nice though I wasn't disappointed with what we got and I loved them using the Grey house

he never dumped Scott in this movie, I don't even think they interacted from what I recall.... Are you saying he needed a consent form filled out by Jean when he knew of the powers she possessed at this point and her inability to control them????!!!!!
And then he should answer to Wolverine when he probably senses his [Xavier's] and a great many others' impending deaths???!!!!... I think not

seemed like he knew which side he was choosing at the tail end of X2

nope loved the first 2 (consider X2 not only one of the best comic based movies of all time but one of the best movies) and can see why people change to fit new situations.

Teremei

Well I don't agree. Suprmallet just wanted more for the movie. But. .

Rogue: Rogue never liked her powers. EVER.

Storm: She is the one who decided to keep the Mansion open. That's when she "made the choice" when she lead Angel to his room.

Wolverine: So characters can't EVOLVE and GROW? Seems like if you want to see Wolvy the way he was, watch X1 or X2 again!

Jean: Here you mentioned something YOU wanted to see in the movie. YOU wanted to see Jean struggle more with Pheonix. Doesn't mean it was done wrong because they didn't do it the way YOU wanted.

Xavier: He said Scott was way beyond help in the movie. So perhaps he was so far off the deep end, he couldn't help him?

Pyro: Yeah but he had already done that in X2. This movie just continued his character from that flame throwing fit he threw in X2 (with no regard to life). .

Magneto/Mystique: Huh?

sinister

the wolverine movie better be a bloody R, not some gay pg13 crap. wolverine needs to be absent in any future x-men movies. he's leader, he's romantic, he's this and that, next they'll make him a scientist and take over beast's lines like he did cyke's. and if storm's the leader then why in the hell is wolverine giving orders throughout the movie. movie gets a D-. a step over F because they got slim's glasses right.