Jay G.

...writes someone posting on a site for discussing DVDs. There's almost always something "more constructive" to do with one's down time, but complaining about how other people choose to spend theirs is probably the least constructive of all.

LosingMyMind

I hope all 6 movies have some changes for the 3D versions. I always look forward to those.

Jedi Master 33

And using that lame excuse for the 100th time is also a waste of time.

RD1973

This is pretty much what I meant. It just took me five paragraphs to say it.

Troy Stiffler

I really don't see these making more than $20-$50mil in the theaters.

But Lucas will have everyone come back for the 3D DVD releases.

RD1973

Lucas hates the original versions of the OT. But he will eventually put them out again. Because there is money to be made. We will have to wait about a year or two after the first BluRay set comes out, but they will be released.

As for the OT changes, I've seen before-and-after comparisons for all 3 movies and I'm all for 90% of the changes. Sure, Greedo shooting first sucks. As does Boba's new voice, Jedi Rocks, and the droid slapstick thats been added. Everthing else, I'm either ok with or I love it. The new dogfight footage in ANH, for example, makes up for any other negative additions. I guess I understand that you gotta take the good with the bad. If your going to only watch the originals, theres no negative changes to deal with. But theres the original dogfight which I just can't watch anymore.

Jay G.

And calling it a "lame excuse" is also a waste of time.

You're much more optimistic than I am. The unaltered OT has only been released once in the past decade, and that was as a "bonus" disc on the individual SE releases, and was the letterboxed Laserdisc master from the early 90s slapped onto a DVD. Lucas has made it clear that he doesn't view the unaltered versions as worth restoring or re-transferring to HD.

Probably 90% of the changes aren't that bad, or are even "invisible" (i.e. removing matte lines and small "fixes"). However, the remaining 10% actively drag the film down in quality.

Not necessarily. There are fan edits out there that keep the "good" changes and remove the "bad" changes, such as Star Wars Revisited. However, the "bad" changes are so detrimental to my enjoyment of the films that I'd watch the unaltered OT over the SE OT any day.

And this is all without mentioning the horrible prequels.

RD1973

How did I get dragged into another Star Wars debate? I walked away a long time ago.

I guess I must be one of the lucky ones that likes the prequels and the SE OT. Phantom Menace is my least favorite, but its certainly alot more fun than anything that came out this summer.

I rate the movies as follows:

TPM *** / ****
AOTC ***1/2 / ****
ROTS ***1/2 / ****
ANH **** / ****
ESB **** / ****
ROTJ ***1/2 / ****

And with that, I abandon this old debate. To each, his own.

Travis McClain

For every action, there is an equal, but opposite, reaction. Prior to 1997, fans had spent 20 years almost literally worshiping the original trilogy. In fact, many to this day still refer to it quite hyperbolically as "The Holy Trilogy." Didn't matter how hokey the dialog, how many plot holes there were, how B-movie the acting really is in most scenes; they loved the movies as kids, and that snowballed into something different from what any other movie series has ever engendered amongst its fans.

I really think the 14 year gap between Return of the Jedi and the Special Editions had a lot to do with how insane this eventually became. Yes, in the immediate post-Jedi 80s fans sat through kiddie fare like the Droids and Ewoks cartoons, but in the early 90s when Timothy Zahn's novels appeared and Dark Horse Comics got their license...it re-exploded.

Even little things like Topps's Star Wars Galaxy trading cards tried to explore different ideas about concepts hinted at, but not explored, in the films. We saw young Obi-Wan, based on a youthful Alec Guinness; we saw a helmet-less, white haired Boba Fett. We saw Jabba the Hutt out and about a few years before we'd ever see Han Solo poorly step over his tail, or falling asleep during the Mos Espa pod race.

The early to mid 90s was a Renaissance for stoking the imaginations of Star Wars fans. Tales of the Jedi and video games like Knights of the Old Republic gave us pre-OT characters to care meet and care about; The Phantom Menace nullified a lot of those things, or at the very least reduced them in stature because it was canon and they weren't.

I think too many fans simply held the original trilogy in an unreasonably high regard in the first place. I've never seen any other fan base repeatedly take it upon itself to share with the world "How It Should Have Gone/Ended." Speculations and such have always been common, but with Star Wars, fans have reached a point that they feel an entitlement to ownership over the property that is really unlike that of a Bond fan, or a Batman fan or even a Trekker. And you know you've become obsessive when you've outdone us Trekkers.

Jedi Master 33

And your response was more pridictable than a Scooby Doo mystery

Travis McClain

HEY! Quibble all you want about Star Wars and George Lucas, but you leave Scooby-Doo the hell out of it!

Jay G.

You didn't walk away that well:
If you understood where the prequel haters are coming from, and allowed them their opinion without questioning it, you wouldn't get dragged into a debate.

resinrats

I'm sure the prequel haters will love the fact that there is a whole generation of SW fans that prefer the prequels to the OT movies. To them SW is Anakin/ObiWan/Padme instead of Han/Luke/Leia. They'll even more love the fact that there is a current group of fans that their SW is the cartoon Clone Wars show, not the live action movie, PT or OT.

Troy Stiffler

Will we? Hasn't it been 15+ years since the OT originals were released? I'm thinking it was the THX-Mastered versions on VHS (sorry, I'm not really into Star Wars, though I do enjoy them). I'd buy them, just to compare what I see.

Jedi Master 33

Having a differing opinion is fine. There's nothing wrong with not liking the prequels. But the constant bashing and whining about the prequels 11 years after they came out is a bit much. I suspect that alot of the prequel haters have a hard time letting go of things.

Just take a look at the reaction to the 3D announcement. Studios double dip on their movies all the time, yet when George Lucas does it, he's suddenly the devil.

milo bloom

See, I *wish* Lucas had been double dipping us on the OT. Start with releasing the SE's back in 97-98 alongside the VHS and Laserdiscs, when those sales start slipping, release the original versions with some of the old making-of docu's, when those sales start slipping, release the "new and improved" SE's (basically what we got in 04 with the first DVD release). Each one would have been a legitimate reason to upgrade and I would have gladly done so.

Lucas's problem has been most of his double dips have simply been repackagings of the same versions, and when he did finally give us the OT, they were shit versions he found in hiding under a mop bucket in a closet at the Ranch. If he had been giving substantial reasons to upgrade, the grumbling would be there, but much more muted.

Jedi Master 33

And, I agree with you. I think he owes the fans that one thing. But really, I don't really care what versions I have, I don't watch Star Wars for the effects.

Jay G.

If you don't watch for the special effects, then you should really want the unaltered original trilogy, which is the best version story wise.

Jay G.

It's not like these are unprompted statements of dislike. A new thread about the Star Wars films is created, and people voice their like and dislike of the films.

I suspect you should stop trying to psychoanalyze people. Either disagree with their opinions based on their merit, or just ignore it. Resorting to an ad hominem is a logical fallacy and ineffectual.

Plenty of people have bitched about 3D post-conversion of films. Clash of the Titans got bashed by critics and viewers alike for it. There's others than just plain don't like 3D at all. Lucas isn't being singled out in that regard.

Travis McClain

I have to dispute this. The original CBS/Fox VHS releases were repackaged, and then came the THX remastered VHS releases in 1995 that were supposed to be technically better and offered VHS consumers the chance to own them in widescreen. After that came the Special Edition box set, offering fans of the 1997 versions a chance to own them in either Full Screen or Widescreen. The next time they hit the market wasn't until 2004 on DVD, and those included tweaks made since the 1997 versions. Sorry, but to say he's just kept repackaging the same content simply isn't true. If anything, the complaint is that each time he releases them, there's something different.

[I can't speak to where the Laser Disc editions fit into this scheme, since I never owned a Laser Disc player and paid no heed to their release on that format. But as far as I'm aware, they existed in only two editions; one earlier than 1995, and one in 1995 that replicated the THX-remastered VHS campaign for the LD format.]

MBoyd

Well I kept up with LDs a bit, but didn't actually own one until 1990. There were the CBS FOX Pan and Scan releases Back in the 80s. I knew those were missing part of the picture as were most LDs in the 80s, but mainly wanted a player for the superior picture. It seems like the Widescreen releases finally came out on LD in 1989. Or at least that's when I first saw Star Wars playing in widescreen at a store. First disc purchased with the player. I picked up Empire and Jedi from Columbia House in 1991. Man, did I ever treasure those and still own them. Then we had the THX LDs in 1995. And finally the Special Edition LD box set in late 1997 available in a very limited amount. I actually expected them to be in DVD.

I guess there might have been a Japanese version of the OT in Widescreen prior to 1989/1990? Not really sure. And of course there was a Phantom Menace Japanese LD released in limited numbers too in 2000. What a joke that wasn't on DVD for another year and a half.

Jedi Master 33

And some take it to the next level.

Here's the general reaction over the internet I've seen towards the 3D announcement.


"George Lucas is a greedy bastard!"

"oh yay! Jar Jar in 3D!"

"George Lucas sucks!"


I'm sorry, but that's not giving a opinion, that's bashing for bashing sake., plain and simple. Like I said, it's fine to have your own opinion, but we get it. You don't like the prequels. So move on with your lives and watch something you do like instead of focusing on the negitive. I know I will

Jedi Master 33

Uh, no. There's absolutely nothing wrong with most of the changes in the SE's.

Jedi Master 33

kstublen

I just remember something else that always bothered me about the prequels. These movies take place before the Original Trilogy and yet it seems like all the technology used by the characters is far more advanced. Did they ever account for that?